The Catwoman Appreciation Thread.

[shinlyle]

I'll tell you what. When you can successfully convince me and the other folks here that CINO had ANYTHING to do with the character of Catwoman that has been published by DC Comics for many decades other than the name that they gave her, then I'll stop debating this. But, as it stands, CINO was not Catwoman in any way, shape or form. Period. It shouldn't have been called Catwoman. If it hadn't, I probably wouldn't care what the hell they did with their little movie. Why? Because I am a Catwoman fan and they shat all over the character that I know and love with that film. It had NOTHING to do with Catwoman but the name. CINO is NOT Catwoman. CINO is NOT Catwoman. Say it with me, because I don't think you're getting that point. CINO is NOT Catwoman. It was absolute crap in cinematic terms, all bastardization of supposed source material aside. Even the people that support it know that it was crap. It is indefensible. Terrible writing. Terrible dialogue. Terrible CGI. Terrible direction. Convoluted costuming. Awful acting. Horrid plotlines that went nowhere and obviously reflected that they'd been tweaked by countless writers. Cheap production values. Endless bullsh1t in the media prior to it's release expounding the virtues of it's message of "female empowerment" that turned out to be sorely lacking from the film upon release. It was simply a cheap excuse to have Halle Berry parade around in skintight leather and try to act like a sex vixen (which came off contrived and laughable). Even the film's star won a Razzie and showed up in person to accept it and own up to how bad the film was. The people that made it deserved every ounce of stomping that they got, and so do the people who mindlessly support it. The real crime is that the actual character of Catwoman is such a viable property with a rich history and countless storylines that would have transitioned so well to the big screen. The fans lost out on probably ever seeing the real Catwoman in her own film thanks to this garbage.

You've made it abundantly clear that you are not a Catwoman fan and that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to the character. The film you love is not about Catwoman. Period. Quit trying to defend it as such.

jag

What he said!

Well put, Jag...and far more articulate than my repeated mocking of his obvious immaturity.

 

[dnno1]

You are stupid. I hate to resort to petty insults, but I can think of no other word to desribe you.

The new FF film wasn't that great, but the story was leap and bounds above the Roger Corman version. It was a totally different story. Also, the special effects in the old oen involved a big cardboard hand on a stick..literally. They were two totally different films. Also, the only reason they were similar was because they were both loosely based on the same freakin' comic book....something the director of CINO scoffed at fromt he beginning in various interviews.

Your use of the word totally is misleading. When you say totally different, it means that there are no similarities at all, but you then agree tht they were similar because they were based on the source material (the comic book). That is a contradiction. I don't think I am stupid here.

The Justive League pilot it totally different from the animated series in every respect. To think otherwise is completely stupid. They share a name. That is all. They hardly have any characters in common, they face different villians, one is ANIMATED whereas one is LIVE-ACTION, one has a totally different premise to it than the other...are you that desperate to rally support for a film that failed almost 2 years ago that you are comparing one of the coolest superhero cartoons to the worst live-action pilot ever?! Get a clue.

Both shows included characters like the Flash, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, and the Atom, whos powers were the same. I do not know what your are talking about here. Here is a clue for you: Stop using the word totally (and for that matter stupid).

The Nick Fury movie had NOTHING to do with the Avengers. Also, he was a super-spy in the movie...in the cartoon, he was merely the leader of a covert organization that was given funding to form a super-powered team to protect the world. Once again...Nick Fury was black in the cartoon whereas he was white in the live-action version, the movie had nothing to do with superheroes, whereas the cartoon was all about superheroes, and the plots were totally different. Once again, you've porven yourself rather ignorant.

My point here is even though these characters were in films that were considered bombs, they still re-emerged in other films or TV shows. This was in response to your comment about "letting it die". Even though the character was of a different race in both films, it is the same Nick Fury character (notice the eye patch). Your're the one who is ingoring the facts here.

I mean, did you even watch anythign OTHER than CINO? You can't have watched any of the things we are discussing and recall this few details about it. No one has that little recollection of anything.

Of course I have. Don't be silly (actuall your statement is pointless).

REAL fanatics?! If you were a real "Catwoman fanatic", then you would know more about her origins in the comics aside from her affinity for Cats and tight outfits. You seem to be a die-hard fan of Halle Berry's "assets", and that's about it. There's nothing wrong with that, but that doesn't make you a Catwoman fanatic. You know about as much about the history of Catwoman (you know, the character the film was supposed to be about) as you seem to know about any of the other things you've pretended to know about in your asanine posts: NOTHING.

I think I mentioned the the fact that I was not a real die-hard Catwoman fan back in post #73 although I do know about the origins of the character. I have never made any comments about Berry's so called "assets" but you certainly have. Maybe it is you that has the fetish for her and you won't admit it

Spoiler

(at least not like you have about lap dancers at strip clubs like you have at other boards)

.

Also, changing a character means that there are MINOR alterations to the character while maintaining the same basic character....changing the name, origin, costume, base of operations, supporting cast, and overall behavior of the character is far beyond "changing" the existing character of Catwoman. It's making a completely new character.

Who said that? Be it minor or major, a change is a change and it happens all the time in both the comics and in film. Reinventing a character is nothing new either (take for instance Hawkgirl or Captain Atom). I can't argue the fact that the Pitof/Rebeck version was not an entirely new charcater because in the DVD they admit that it intentionally was. You just have to accept it or don't, but you shouldn't criticise or berate anyone who does since it it violates this freedom of expression.

 

[shinlyle]

Your use of the word totally is misleading. When you say totally different, it means that there are no similarities at all, but you then agree tht they were similar because they were based on the source material (the comic book). That is a contradiction. I don't think I am stupid here.

Are you totally freakin' stupid? Just because two things are based on the same source material doesn't make them the same! You CAN'T really be this stupid...can you? Catwoman from Batman Returns and CINO have nothing in common, yet they were both inspired(or at least took the name of) the source character. Try thinking before you post...it would truly benefit everyone.

Both shows included characters like the Flash, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, and the Atom, whos powers were the same. I do not know what your are talking about here. Here is a clue for you: Stop using the word totally (and for that matter stupid).

You are totally stupid. How's that? If you ever even saw the pilot about which you speak, and you watched the animated series, then you'd know that it is missing the three MAIN characters of the DC Universe: Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman. That alone changes the entire dynamic of the show, as they are the main characters on the team, and the most easily recognizable icons from the DC universe, which you clearly know nothing about, judging from your complete lack of knowledge thereof.

My point here is even though these characters were in films that were considered bombs, they still re-emerged in other films or TV shows. This was in response to your comment about "letting it die". Even though the character was of a different race in both films, it is the same Nick Fury character (notice the eye patch). Your're the one who is ingoring the facts here.[/b]

You are more stupid than I originally believed. The two Nick Furys were inspired by two polar opposite characters, moron. The Movie version was inspired by the regular Marvel Comics version, whereas the Ultimate Avengers version was inspired by the Ultimate Universe variation. They. Are. Two. Different. Characters. An eye patch doesn't make one character the same as another. The two Nick Furys have an eye patch in common....whoopdee doo. Next, you'll tell me that "One-eye Willy" from the "Goonies" movie was an incarnation of Nick Fury. Nit-wit.

Of course I have. Don't be silly (actuall your statement is pointless).

Pointless....that's a good way of describing your posts....I like that.

I think I mentioned the the fact that I was not a real die-hard Catwoman fan back in post #73 although I do know about the origins of the character. I have never made any comments about Berry's so called "assets" but you certainly have. Maybe it is you that has the fetish for her and you won't admit it

Spoiler

(at least not like you have about lap dancers at strip clubs like you have at other boards)

.

Ah....so the truth comes out! You're a bitter troll from another mesage board that I verbally b****-slapped sometime ago...and you still haven't gotten over it. Spreading lies about me....I personally think you should go to a strip club or two....then MAYBE you won't have to watch terrible films just to see some PG-13 3/4 breast shots, huh? Then again, I suppose you aren't old enough to get into one yet, are you?

Who said that? Be it minor or major, a change is a change and it happens all the time in both the comics and in film. Reinventing a character is nothing new either (take for instance Hawkgirl or Captain Atom). I can't argue the fact that the Pitof/Rebeck version was not an entirely new charcater because in the DVD they admit that it intentionally was. You just have to accept it or don't, but you shouldn't criticise or berate anyone who does since it it violates this freedom of expression.

I shouldn't criticise or berate anyone for completely changing something....

You are henceforth branded as "STUPID".

Yes, characters get reinvented and reimagined, but this is a NEW CHARACTER. Now you have admitted it. So, show me all of these die-hard fans of this "Patience Phillips" or whatever "Catwoman". Where are they? Shou;dn't they all be here defending this "wonderful" character they all love so much? Maybe this board isn't important enough for them to show up....that's it. Or maybe, they have better things to do. Maybe.Or....Maybe...

NO ONE LIKES THIS CRAPPY CHARACTER!

Think about this logically, if you are the only lone left still supporting it, and no one agrees with you, does that mean that there is a "Silent Majority" out there who refuses to rise up, or is it that they just aren't there?

I know which one you'll choose.....and that just further proves your incompetence and your inability to discern FACT from OPINION. And that's sad.

 

[JackBauer]

Your use of the word totally is misleading. When you say totally different, it means that there are no similarities at all, but you then agree tht they were similar because they were based on the source material (the comic book). That is a contradiction. I don't think I am stupid here.

so, by your "logic", Batman Begins and 60's Batman would be similar.

Both shows included characters like the Flash, Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter, and the Atom, whos powers were the same. I do not know what your are talking about here. Here is a clue for you: Stop using the word totally (and for that matter stupid).

except that they used a COMPLETELY different Flash, a COMPLETELY different Lantern, and it was in a COMPLETELY different tone.

the JLA pilot was like a campy DC version of Power Rangers. the JL cartoon actually took the source material, and the viewers' intelligence, seriously.

My point here is even though these characters were in films that were considered bombs, they still re-emerged in other films or TV shows. This was in response to your comment about "letting it die". Even though the character was of a different race in both films, it is the same Nick Fury character (notice the eye patch). Your're the one who is ingoring the facts here.

first of all. it is NOT the same Nick Fury character. it's a completely different version. just like Begins Bats isn't the same character from BTAS.

second, none of those movies were considered half as bad as CINO was. it was, save for a few misguided souls like yourself, unanimously considered crap. you could argue for Batman & Robin, but the difference is, it's Batman, and he came back on the peak of the superhero craze. if Catwoman didn't make it big now, when she had EVERYTHING going for her (everything except the stupidity of the folks at WB), she's not gonna have another shot until the craze dies down, and comes back. that'd be in about 20 years.

Of course I have. Don't be silly (actuall your statement is pointless).

funny. certainly doesn't look that way.

I think I mentioned the the fact that I was not a real die-hard Catwoman fan back in post #73 although I do know about the origins of the character. I have never made any comments about Berry's so called "assets" but you certainly have. Maybe it is you that has the fetish for her and you won't admit it

Spoiler

(at least not like you have about lap dancers at strip clubs like you have at other boards)

.

Halle's "assets" are the ONLY reason someone could defend this tripe. and they STILL managed to screw that one up.

Who said that? Be it minor or major, a change is a change and it happens all the time in both the comics and in film. Reinventing a character is nothing new either (take for instance Hawkgirl or Captain Atom). I can't argue the fact that the Pitof/Rebeck version was not an entirely new charcater because in the DVD they admit that it intentionally was. You just have to accept it or don't, but you shouldn't criticise or berate anyone who does since it it violates this freedom of expression.

except that changes in the comics are most of the time in the dynamics, like having Peter live in the Avengers Tower. the rest is idiot writers thinking they can improve upon a character by doing stupid things like giving him new powers (something that nine times out of ten, simply doesn't work). in the rare event when they actually reinvent a character, it's mostly rebooting his origin, but still keeping with who the character is in the present.

and yes, we, real fans, CAN and SHOULD berate people who accept crap like CINO because not only does it rape the source material (which was miles and miles better and thus had no reason not to be used), it just gets in the way of the real Catwoman (y'know, Selina Kyle, thief, former prostitute, whatever) having a chance to be made in a movie.

and THAT is why the real fans take no substitutes.

 

[jaguarr]

ActOfGod, you've been ID'd.

jag

 

[JackBauer]

ActOfGod, you've been ID'd.

jag

good lord, not ActOfDefecation!

man I miss those times. you guys made me laugh like a maniac.

 

[shinlyle]

Yup...it's the little girl who fell for me on the DC Boards, followed me here, got banned....got banned again...got banned again...and only posts every three or four months when a CINO-Love thread pops up.

That would explain her logic-board being fried and her complete ineptitude when it comes to all things comic.

 

[Darthphere]

God this thread is still going, how vomitrocious, like CINO.

 

[JackBauer]

God this thread is still going, how vomitrocious, like CINO.

yep, it comes full circle.

 

[That-Guy]

God this thread is still going, how vomitrocious, like CINO.

You know something? I was thinking the other day about how cool, yet completely impossible it would be for Warner Brothers to make a movie based on "Infinite Crisis." It would be cool to see a big, special effects extravaganza like that, featuring all of the big DC heroes in an all out battle. Then I came to a realization.

Warner Brothers has already made an "Infinite Crisis" of a movie.

No, they haven't made a movie based on the story, Infinite Crisis. Nor have they ever made a movie featuring a smilar situation (i.e. a bunch of superheroes battling a slew of villains and trying to save the universe). But if you really examine the LITERAL meaning of the term "infinite crisis," you'll see that such a creation has, in fact, been made. "Infinite" is a word meaning something that is unending... it goes on and on forever. The term is most often used by astronomers when they discuss space. It is generally accepted that space is infinite... if interstellar space travel ever becomes possible, supposedly, a ship could travel forever without finding an end. "Crisis" is really just another word for disaster. When you put the two words together, your meaning is simple: a disaster that is never ending. The film Catwoman, alias CINO, alias Crapwoman, etc., is thus once such "infinite crisis." This is due to the following facts: 1. The movie was a financial and critical disaster, so much that the films star actually showed up to the Razzie awards and ACCEPTED her "Worst Actress" award for the film, and later even made a PUBLIC APOLOGY for the movie. 2. Despite the film being panned by critics, boycotted by fans of the original character, and hardly recouping any of its budget, the few fans CINO has STILL pop up on message boards trying to convince people that it was a good movie and discuss "rumors" of possible SEQUELS. Much like a cancer that cannot be neutralized despite millions of dollars spent on the most efficient cheimotherapy possible, these leeches infinitely plague true fans of the character. 3. Lastly, when the comic book "Infinite Crisis" debuted, it was touted to be the "worst day in the lives of the DC heroes." This was inaccurate. That day was the day "Catwoman" was released in theaters.

 

[shinlyle]

Great post, man....of course, you know the comic reference will throw dnno1/Act of Dog into a tizzy....seeing as how she only CLAIMS to read comics...without ever actually reading them.


Oh...my bad, she read the Superman Blue crap...

 

[jaguarr]

That-Guy is a Thread Killa!!!!

jag

 

[shinlyle]

Well....looks like we scared the little troll back into it's hole, huh?

Just like a freakin' Groundhog....gets scared and burrows back into its hole.

"It's a varmint....and I know how to handle varmints...."

 

[Spike_x1]

Awww... I missed the pwning of Act Of Dog. I feel left out.

 

[dnno1]

The joke's on you guys. I'm not ActOfDog. I'm not even a chick (not even close). Anybody with a brain could easily figure out who Shinlyle is and what he does. It's all over the Internet. Just Google Lyle Plollard.

 

[jaguarr]

The joke's on you guys. I'm not ActOfDog. I'm not even a chick (not even close). Anybody with a brain could easily figure out who Shinlyle is and what he does. It's all over the Internet. Just Google Lyle Plollard.

He does charity work for people with autism? Wow....you've really got him there! How dastardly! It's clear that you came here with an agenda, by what you've just posted. Did it occur to you that maybe we already KNOW who Shinlyle is and what he does?

jag

 

[spacecomet]

I enjoyed "Catwoman" with Halle Berry. Make no mistake, Catwoman was NOT a great movie. It was a bit below average honestly, combined with the devotion to the subject matter that comics fans have (which isn't much, but it's still there), this movie is GUARANTEED to have a horrid reputation around here...

Regardless, there were three things that I liked about Catwoman:

1) Halle Berry's body... pretty simple... it's fun to watch...

2) Capoeria... great fighting style put to great use in the film...

3) CGI climbing/jumping/running... yes they looked fake, but I still enjoyed it... the same way I enjoy cartoons --shrug--

Now while there is a laundry list of things I did NOT like about Catwoman, they did not detract from the things I did like...

Cliches -- the gay friend, the fat friend (superb comedienne), the police love interest who doesn't know... all of these of course have non cliched potential, but, honestly, it wasn't used... her supporting cast was pretty straightforward. Catwoman vs Ben Bratt should have been played up more.

Villains -- This was painful. They had a plot twist, but they gave it away WAY too early, it should have been saved for the climax, not the beginning of the third act. The villain herself, while again, a superb actress, was NOT even close to intimidating. Dear gosh... what can rubbergirl do to CATWOMAN, I mean... normal Catwoman, much less Super-Catwoman that Patience was... it's crazy. I mean, please, borrow a third rate Batman villain... the plot would have BEEN AWESOME for Clayface or Killer Croc both of whom would have been credible villains in a battle... I mean, even Charaxes or Firefly would have been welcome additions to this limp villany. Even Cat-Man could have at least highlighted the fight-the-male-dominance theory. This was, by far the biggest flaw in the film.

Plot -- Toxic Makeup. That gives powers. To be honest, I can't think of another episode of BTAS that's better fitted to be adapted to Catwoman (assuming of course, that we can't use Batman becuz of the Begins monster)... but can we at least give it as strong a finish? A villain we can related to... a tragedy we can feel... a power level that's worth watching a fight between? They should've kept Clayface in this plot, and left Sharon Stone as a powerless mastermind (who is only revealed to be the power behind the suddenly dead powerless mastermind at the end). That would have been much more compelling. There are better plots to be had (say one involving... cat burglary?), but small changes could've made it MUCH better.

Purring -- Eartha Kitt did it right... Michelle Pfeiffer did it right... Halle did not... whoever was directing kept the wrong takes...

Moral -- "Freedom IS Power." Ouch. Put that down next to: "Do you know what happens when a toad is struck by lightning?" It's like... Whaaa? Is this what I am to go and apply to my life? Are you serious? Women should be free to do whatever the heck they want, damn the consequences? This is your female empowerment? Madness... madness...

In short, too much inspiration for this movie was drawn from the 60s TV show (black Catwoman) and the cartoons (RenewU is addictive and gives us powers!) and not enough inspiration was taken from the comics (compelling characters, big fights, Batman Universe).

Things I'm indifferent to (some people hate them, but I honestly don't care... nor should I):

Patience Pierce Character. I read Batman comics, not Catwoman comics... Selina Kyle's cool, but without Bruce Wayne, I have zero interest in her.

Costume. Catwoman's costume changes pretty regularly. It had ears and a whip. No complaints from me.

All in all... a descent flick. Had shining parts, had surprises... had rough parts... don't buy the DVD, but it was definitely sit-through-able. Not the best, not the worst... just a weak, laughably corny and somewhat enjoyable movie.

I agree with you on some things. The Capoeria was a good fighting style to use. It was different. I thought Halle did a good job with the purring. Good idea that you had about Clayface being in the film with Sharon Stone's character as the mastermind. Also good what you said about Catwoman's costume changing regularly. I agree that Freedom is power in a way. You do what you want when you want. I enjoyed the movie also. I liked the music also. I also have the dvd. You had some good points.

 

[Ultimate Movie-Man]

spcaecomet, I am assuming that you didn't absolutely love it? No one seems to do, not even me.

What you said though, I agree with (capoiera, clayface, etc.)

 

[Mr Sensitive]

GL1 is tripping.

The movie is a complete disgrace: her outfit is, in itself, a joke. Fake FX, bad writing, awful direction, no Selina Kyle, the cosmetics plot, etc, etc, etc.

It is written everywhere in this movie: D-I-S-G-R-A-C-E.

By the way, the name of the fight is "Capoeira", and I can assure you, it was not what they were doing there.

 

[shinlyle]

The joke's on you guys. I'm not ActOfDog. I'm not even a chick (not even close). Anybody with a brain could easily figure out who Shinlyle is and what he does. It's all over the Internet. Just Google Lyle Plollard.

Way to misspell my name, idiot.

Of course, you're not Act of Dog...you never admitted you were in any of your previous incarntions either. You simply repost and pretend to be a "new" fan of this atrocious film.

Besides, don't you tend to run off and hide every time more than 4 people post in opposition to you? All the other CINO threads demonstrate that pattern...

Dnno1: "Catwoman was a good movie because it has fans. It will live forever!"

Shinlyle: "No, it wasn't..It was panned by critics, fans of the comic, and moviegoers alike. It was also a financial failure. If it had fans, they must have just downloaded it."

Dnno1: "It was good! It'll stand the test of time and get remade like Superman and Justice League and Fantastic Four."

Jaguar: "You're wrong (insert incredibly articulate response here)"

Dnno1: "I am right because I ama fan and you guys aren't real fans of Catwoman because you don't like this movie."

SpikeX: "You're an imbecile."

That-Guy: "Wow...this thread is stupid, and so is Dnno1."

Dnno1: "I googles Shinlyle's name! He love going to strip clubs!"
*dnno1 Vanishes back to the pit*


For all those just joining us, this is a pretty accurate appraisal of the current situation, as well as all Dnno1's past appearances.

 

[shinlyle]

He does charity work for people with autism? Wow....you've really got him there! How dastardly! It's clear that you came here with an agenda, by what you've just posted. Did it occur to you that maybe we already KNOW who Shinlyle is and what he does?

jag

Gah! He's discovered my plans...! I was trying to help people so that the world could be a better place!!

I'll get you next time, Gadget....Next time......

ROWR!!

 

[JackBauer]

Gah! He's discovered my plans...! I was trying to help people so that the world could be a better place!!

I'll get you next time, Gadget....Next time......

ROWR!!

don't forget to shake your fist...

 

[jaguarr]

ActOfFraud, you're as entertaining as ever. Nice to see your Bizarro Logic is still intact.

jag

 

[shinlyle]

ActOfFraud, you're as entertaining as ever. Nice to see your Bizarro Logic is still intact.

jag

I'm just waiting for him to start calling us all pathetic losers because we don't agree with this "silent majority" of CINO-lovers that is so silent, they themselves don't know they support it.

I really find it hard to believe that, after over almost 2 years of this crap, ANYONE can be theis completely and totally STUPID. There has to be some kind of island or quarantine zone for people with this level of blatant stupidity. I'd hate to think he's allowed to roam free and infect others with his own brand of viral ignorance.

 

[jaguarr]

I There has to be some kind of island or quarantine zone for people with this level of blatant stupidity. I'd hate to think he's allowed to roam free and infect others with his own brand of viral ignorance.

I hear Guantanamo will be available, soon.

jag