The Dark Knight The Christian Bale/Bruce Wayne thread

[RKO]

Those pictures are from months ago.

 

[baleheadbrasil]

I love him soooooooooooooo much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Balehead 4 Ever!

 

[SimonDobbs]

Well Bale said it wasn't hard to get back into the voice. I just assumed it wasn't consistent as in BB, so a little work was done to even that out. The bank scene in particular sounds the most obvious to me as being worked on. It's almost other-wordly how deep it was in there (that's what she said!).[/QUOTE]

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are quite truly amazing films and The Dark Knight has to be the best ever superhero movie of all times by a long way. The only thing that annoys me slightly is his voice when he is Batman other than that a master piece.

When it comes to who was the better Joker it will always have to be Jack Nicholson. Heath Ledger is amazing as the Joker, but surely acting a character is easier as you can base it on the first one and add to it. Jack started from scratch and created a character that was quite simply one of the darkest and sinister villains ever.

Another thing that sways me towards good old Jack is that I watched Batman at quite a young age and the Joker gave me nightmares for quite a few nights thereafter, simply chilling.

 

[RustyCage]

Don't see the big deal about Christian being skinny for a film where it's part of the role. He obviously doesn't have an issue jumping back and forth between body types.

Opinion on 'The Voice':

In Begins I thought the voice was a lot more tempered and stylized. It reminded me of a more gritty/intimidating Alec Baldwin-esque voice. Dunno if you guys have seen The Shadow - lot of you probably have. It felt like an angrier version of that to me. Especially the 'rattle the cages' lines to Rachel. I also enjoyed the 'Now we're two..' line.

But in The Dark Knight it sounded more like he was just grumbling with no personality, kind of like a dog. That was probably my biggest disappointment with the film (apart from Rachel being recast), which I know is picky. I can't help it though, it was a significant punch to the character and how seriously the audience takes him. Frankly Batman seemed to be portrayed as rather stupid in TDK, but the more I think about it, the more I think it was the point. It's early in his career and the Joker is teaching him one of the most important lessons he needs to learn. -- Aaanyway.

I just hope he goes back to the Begins approach for the voice for Batman 3.

Comparatively, Michael Keaton's voice was normally sufficiently dark while also being smooth. Not as intimidating or disguising to be sure (both of which are the point), but still pretty cool.

 

[Mandalore464]

Don't know if this has showed up already, but just thought I'll share it here since "the voice" is the number one topic in this thread :

Benson: Now, when I think of that film I do remember people being extremely picky about your performance vocally in films like Terminator and The Dark Knight. Could you explain or expand why you chose to have Batman portrayed as a guy with that gravelly voice?
Bale: (laughs) Believe me it’s not just fans who tell me about that all the time, you should hear my wife and her family or my friends telling me to tone it down. When Chris (Nolan) and I first got together for countless days initially discussing how Batman and Bruce Wayne were going to be shown I think the idea of Bruce Wayne was already set in stone. We were going to play him off as the fake, phony, billionaire playboy guy that isn’t the essence of the true character. He’s the smoke screen to the real guy under that facade. Then we got to Batman and we were stumped because I didn’t want to look or sound like Michael Keaton, Kevin Conroy, Val Kilmer or anyone else who preceded me. Then, because I was still reading over 80 issues of Batman comics a day doing research, I saw a panel of Alfred fixing Bruce Wayne’s tux and telling him that his voice is a bit gravelly so I expanded on that thought and told Chris that the Batman should be like an animal that people fear and Chris loved it so that’s how that started. I thought in ‘Begins’ I was perfectly in my zone and had the voice the way I wanted it to sound but during The Dark Knight I was uncomfortable about 90% of the shoot because I was unhappy with the way I sounded. During filming I caught a throat infection from a cold and actually had to be transported to the hospital in Chicago near the shoots the very first week of April back in 2007. The rest of the way was a struggle to perform vocally and it obviously shows. I had a pretty good laugh when I was reading the Times and they wrote that I sounded like someone who needed a cough drop, which in turn I desperately did need. That and some digital post production work on the voice didn’t really help with the situation. I’m more that confident that on the next one it’ll be more normal, still threatening of course, but nothing like it did in dark knight.

 

[RustyCage]

Edit: Well, damn, it appears that interview may be fake.

Wow. Thank you so much for that, Mandalore! That falls perfectly into place with what I was just saying about the voice difference between the two films. That was very reassuring!

 

[The Joker]

When it comes to who was the better Joker it will always have to be Jack Nicholson. Heath Ledger is amazing as the Joker, but surely acting a character is easier as you can base it on the first one and add to it. Jack started from scratch and created a character that was quite simply one of the darkest and sinister villains ever.

Disagree. Jack looked and sounded like Jack in clown make up. He was not dramatically different from his mannerisms in the likes of The Shining. Jack didn't even come up with a unique voice for the character.

With Heath's Joker, you had no idea you were looking at Heath Ledger on the screen. He didn't look like Heath, he didn't sound like Heath, he was so different to anything Heath had done before. Heath is the one that created a unique Joker. His style was completely different to what Jack did. Heath's Joker was far more darker and sinister than Jack's. Easily. Heck that scene with the video footage of Joker terrorizing the Batman impostor was more sinister and scary than anything Jack did in B'89, IMO.

But not to go off topic: I loved Bale in TDK. I think for the most part is Bat voice was good. I loved the turmoil he conveyed in scenes like when Rachel died, when he was going to give up being Batman, when he went berserk on the Joker in the interrogation scene, the touching speech he gave at the party about supporting Harvey Dent etc.

 

[Mandalore464]

Edit: Well, damn, it appears that interview may be fake

Well to be honest, I thought it did look like a fake interview because Bale usually isn't that much of a conversationalist but in this interview it's like he wants to address all the issues surrounding his past three films, which is definitely weird... It was also weird that he listed all the villains he'd like to see in the third one since he always replies "you should ask Chris Nolan" or "wait and see" whenever someone brings it up in an interview.

Just out of curiosity, where was it confirmed that it was a fake interview?

EDIT : Nevermind, just noticed the article was taken off the internet in a matter of minutes. Sorry about the fake news.

 

[RustyCage]

Disagree. Jack looked and sounded like Jack in clown make up. He was not dramatically different from his mannerisms in the likes of The Shining. Jack didn't even come up with a unique voice for the character.

I've always had this feeling. I usually don't pay it much mind because it sort of just.. works, cause Jack is batty. But it's hard to deny that the movie is basically Batman vs. Jack Nicholson.

Heath's Joker was far more darker and sinister than Jack's. Easily. Heck that scene with the video footage of Joker terrorizing the Batman impostor was more sinister and scary than anything Jack did in B'89, IMO.

100% agree, but that particular example may be more about the writing. I found that a lot of our disagreements about Maggie/Katie were writing based arguments too, and it seems to be common.

In terms of acting though, Heath was very fidgetty and unpredictable and quirky, I found that genuinely intimidating. Meanwhile, Jack was sort of slow and sleepy about everything, he didn't have that unnerving air of 'what is he about to snap and do all of the sudden?' like Heath did so well. Well, excusing the scene where he was looking in the mirror at himself for the first time. THAT was a good Joker scene from Jack.

But not to go off topic: I loved Bale in TDK. I think for the most part is Bat voice was good. I loved the turmoil he conveyed in scenes like when Rachel died, when he was going to give up being Batman, when he went berserk on the Joker in the interrogation scene, the touching speech he gave at the party about supporting Harvey Dent etc.

Yeah, the Harvey speech was awesome. Probably one of my favorite bits of acting Bale did in that movie, next to the very impressive silent acting he did when he was going to reveal himself as Batman at that press conference. He just looked and felt so iconically 'Bruce Wayne' in that moment to me. You can just tell he completely grasped and embodied the feeling Bruce was having.

I also thought the bit where he knocked out the thug and disassembled his gun was incredibly smooth and well done.

And I'll definitely agree with you about the Bat-voice when he flips out on the Joker. That rage. Yesss. It told volumes about the character, and the Joker instantly recognized that. Best chemistry of the film there, imo.

 

[El Payaso]

Disagree. Jack looked and sounded like Jack in clown make up. He was not dramatically different from his mannerisms in the likes of The Shining.

Jack was chosen because he was very much like the Joker to start with. The idea was that he could let his inner Joker go free, not that he should transform himself into something completely different, which is not something that doesn't warrant quality nor is an undeniable sign of good acting.

Jack didn't even come up with a unique voice for the character.

The point is that Jack (or any other actor) didn't have to come up with a unique voice for the character.

With Heath's Joker, you had no idea you were looking at Heath Ledger on the screen. He didn't look like Heath,

Well, to start with if I myself died my hair green and put a ton of smudgy make-up along with some disfiguring prostethics all over my face, I doubt I'd be too recognizable.

I know where you're going. But not looking like the usual you

he didn't sound like Heath, he was so different to anything Heath had done before.

And that's fantastic. But not the only or mandatory way to approach any character.

Heath probably needed to look and sound different because he wasn't half way there as Jack did (okay, more like 90% of the way). Plus he had the Nicholson Joker approach to avoid, which he said himself.

Heath is the one that created a unique Joker. His style was completely different to what Jack did.

That was his goal, and he achieved it.

Heath's Joker was far more darker and sinister than Jack's. Easily. Heck that scene with the video footage of Joker terrorizing the Batman impostor was more sinister and scary than anything Jack did in B'89, IMO.

That has more to do with the style of the movie. And the time it was made.

Back in 1989 there was no way you could go that way in a movie that was supposed to be a blockbuster seen by children.

But for 1989, Jack's Joker went far beyond what was expectable. 20 years later of course you can go further.

Both Jokers didn't hesitate to kill people for fun, to make a joke or a pun out of it. Both Jokers didn't fear to face a big table with the most dangerous gangsters to impose their own rules.

 

[The Joker]

Again, without derailing the Bale thread into Joker discussion, don't get me wrong, Payaso, I do love Jack as the Joker. I'm a big supporter of the Burton movies in general.

But I stand by what I said, I don't think Jack created a character that was unique to anything he had done before. Like I said, I could see lots of mad Jack from The Shining, or Daryl Van Horn from the Witches of Eastwick, in his Joker performance. Not saying it didn't work for his performance. No I'm saying that what the guy said above that Jack worked to make a new character from scratch, when he really didn't at all.

That is what Heath had to do. He had to shy away from being like Cesar Romero, Jack, and Mark Hamill, and make his own unique take on the character. No easy task. Whereas Jack really only had the Romero version to compete with. Heath did it to the point where he was unrecognizable in every way.

That is far more impressive than what Jack did, IMO. Heck it's the most impressive a Batman villain has been yet, IMO. With every other Batman villain, both the great ones and the terrible ones, we could still recognize the actors or actresses playing them. With Heath, he lost himself in the role. The only time you'd know he was there was when he was dressed as the Cop.

 

[The Joker]

I've always had this feeling. I usually don't pay it much mind because it sort of just.. works, cause Jack is batty. But it's hard to deny that the movie is basically Batman vs. Jack Nicholson.



100% agree, but that particular example may be more about the writing. I found that a lot of our disagreements about Maggie/Katie were writing based arguments too, and it seems to be common.

In terms of acting though, Heath was very fidgetty and unpredictable and quirky, I found that genuinely intimidating. Meanwhile, Jack was sort of slow and sleepy about everything, he didn't have that unnerving air of 'what is he about to snap and do all of the sudden?' like Heath did so well. Well, excusing the scene where he was looking in the mirror at himself for the first time. THAT was a good Joker scene from Jack.



Yeah, the Harvey speech was awesome. Probably one of my favorite bits of acting Bale did in that movie, next to the very impressive silent acting he did when he was going to reveal himself as Batman at that press conference. He just looked and felt so iconically 'Bruce Wayne' in that moment to me. You can just tell he completely grasped and embodied the feeling Bruce was having.

I also thought the bit where he knocked out the thug and disassembled his gun was incredibly smooth and well done.

And I'll definitely agree with you about the Bat-voice when he flips out on the Joker. That rage. Yesss. It told volumes about the character, and the Joker instantly recognized that. Best chemistry of the film there, imo.

Agreed. Great post

 

[El Payaso]

Again, without derailing the Bale thread into Joker discussion, don't get me wrong, Payaso, I do love Jack as the Joker. I'm a big supporter of the Burton movies in general.

But I stand by what I said, I don't think Jack created a character that was unique to anything he had done before. Like I said, I could see lots of mad Jack from The Shining, or Daryl Van Horn from the Witches of Eastwick, in his Joker performance. Not saying it didn't work for his performance. No I'm saying that what the guy said above that Jack worked to make a new character from scratch, when he really didn't at all.

That is what Heath had to do. He had to shy away from being like Cesar Romero, Jack, and Mark Hamill, and make his own unique take on the character. No easy task. Whereas Jack really only had the Romero version to compete with. Heath did it to the point where he was unrecognizable in every way.

That is far more impressive than what Jack did, IMO. Heck it's the most impressive a Batman villain has been yet, IMO. With every other Batman villain, both the great ones and the terrible ones, we could still recognize the actors or actresses playing them. With Heath, he lost himself in the role. The only time you'd know he was there was when he was dressed as the Cop.

Ah, if it's a reply to the notion that Jack's Joker was significantly different from himself, then ok.

But the results are the results. I mean, if Heath did a lot of things and changed his appearance, okay, that's great. But it's not like actors are bound to do all of that to have a great result nor that the more effort equals the better acting. Same with appearance - "the most unrecognizable he is, the better acting he gets." And yes, Jack had only Romero to top, Heath had Romero and Jack. And of course the next Joker will have those AND Ledger, but that doesn't mean that he's more worthy that the previous ones for every new actor in the role will have a harder time trying to top everyone who preceeded him.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

When it comes to who was the better Joker it will always have to be Jack Nicholson. Heath Ledger is amazing as the Joker, but surely acting a character is easier as you can base it on the first one and add to it. Jack started from scratch and created a character that was quite simply one of the darkest and sinister villains ever.

 

[ALP]

With every other Batman villain, both the great ones and the terrible ones, we could still recognize the actors or actresses playing them.

You're telling me you really recognized Jeep Swenson as Bane?

Spoiler

 

[The Caped Knight]

This is awesome

 

[The Joker]

^^^^ That's awesome.

 

[kvz5]

Full Empire Magazine (Feb 2011 issue) interview with Bale:

1 // 2 // 3 // 4 // 5

It's pretty cool that he and Spielberg still keep touch with each other.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Just saw The Fighter. Such an incredible performance.

 

[Ponyboy]

Why didn't the interviewer ask him a real question... You know like... "Why does your Batman voice suck so much?"

But yes, The Fighter was awesome.

 

[The Joker]

Just saw The Fighter. Such an incredible performance.

Can't wait to see it. Haven't seen him in a movie since Terminator Salvation.

His Batman voice is fine btw.

 

[GothamAlleys]

I dont understand Jack playing Jack thing and never will. I always found their statement very untrue, generalizing and misinformed. About the only common trace I see in Jack's characters, and in only very few movies, is his devilish persona, like in Witches of Eastwick or Batman. And the same can be said about every actor and every director or musician - theres always a certain characteristics that they always carry on, and thats what makes them them. I fail to see how Jack's role in, for example, Prizzi's Honor, Chinatown or Wolf are in any way similar. There are big similarities between The Shining and Batman because they were intended - Jack's performance in The Shining was one of 2 reasons why Bob Kane wanted him for the job (the other being that he looked like Kane's Joker - same hairline, hair, pointy eyebrows), and if the performance for Joker is suppose to be based on a completely insane , axe wielding lunatic who has great fun killing, then count me in.

Besides, Jack was behaving exactly like Joker from the comics and doing what Joker in the comics was doing. Joker from the comics, just like Hammil's Joker, was like a ringmaster, someone incredibly energetic and entertaining. He really WAS a clown, a clown of crime

Stanley Kubrick: I believe that Jack is one of the best actors in Hollywood, perhaps on a par with the greatest stars of the past like Spencer Tracy and Jimmy Cagney. His work is always interesting, clearly conceived and has the X-factor, magic. (Michel Ciment int.)

 

[Ponyboy]

His Batman voice is fine btw.

actually it's bollocks but okay...

 

[RustyCage]

actually it's bollocks but okay...

Solid reasoning is usually required to make an effective point. Just saying 'It sucks.' is a hollow statement, and therefore useless.

 

[GothamAlleys]

I never had a problem with Bale's Bat voice. I never even noticed anything weird in it until people started mass criticizing it