The Dark Knight The Christian Bale/Bruce Wayne thread

[Crook]

I still can't believe some people use a scene where Batman talks in a growl voice after being choked, hit in the ribs like 20 times with a wrench, getting bitten by evil dogs, and taking on a whole s.w.a.t as an example. I would think it shouldn't sound right after all that.

I just like Bale the best. it's just too ballsy and interesting for me to turn my back on.

You are free to look at Maroni's interrogation. He sounds just as gruffy and garbled. The whole film in fact, lol. I don't presume it's a coincidence that the most consistent critique of the film is the batvoice. TDK's the most watched film of the decade and apparently a great majority saw it as distracting/stupid. Just look at the vast parodies online. Regardless, it's no biggie amongst all the other praise...

I like the voice Bale uses, and I still want the evidence his voice was computer modulated in TDK. I followed the development of that movie everyday and I don't know how I would have missed that.

Probably because it was done in post, where there was no news for months.

The way he speaks, it's difficult to do consistently, so with three years between filming the movies, I assumed that is why they didn't sounded the same between Batman Begins and TDK.

Well Bale said it wasn't hard to get back into the voice. I just assumed it wasn't consistent as in BB, so a little work was done to even that out. The bank scene in particular sounds the most obvious to me as being worked on. It's almost other-wordly how deep it was in there (that's what she said!).

 

[Indrid Cold]

Bale was very much "anger & spit" in his voicing. Keaton had a great Bat Voice, it was subtle but hoarser...creepier if you will. Of course the best Batman voice is no voice at all, just pure atmosphere.

 

[BestGirl]

My sig does.

Well, I like Keaton's voice too. Who's to say I can't love both?

 

[*Id*]

Bale was very much "anger & spit" in his voicing. Keaton had a great Bat Voice, it was subtle but hoarser...creepier if you will. Of course the best Batman voice is no voice at all, just pure atmosphere.

That is why I just love watching Batman in the interrogation scene. As the Joker rambles on and on about his philosophy, Bale's Batman is just sitting there not only silent but also motionless. You don't even see him blink. He's also like that on the rooftop meeting with Dent and Gordon. And then you have moments like when he goes berserk with Maroni and then, Joker in the interrogation room. I just love how Bale's Batman just goes from one extreme to another in a snap. It adds a little bit of much needed dynamic elements to the personality of Batman, who is usually...well, too stoic. And that's certainly not a bad thing per se, but after seeing both Keaton and Conroy pull it off so well, it starts to get old. Bale's Batman is a welcome breath of fresh air in comparison. It's a pity how the division over the Batman voice have detracted many from appreciating what I think is unquestionably an extremely fine and nuanced performance put in by Bale.

Oh and I love this:

Such a striking image.

 

[Crook]

I just love how Bale's Batman just goes from one extreme to another in a snap. It adds a little bit of much needed dynamic elements to the personality of Batman, who is usually...well, too stoic. And that's certainly not a bad thing per se, but after seeing both Keaton and Conroy pull it off so well, it starts to get old. Bale's Batman is a welcome breath of fresh air in comparison. It's a pity how the division over the Batman voice have detracted many from appreciating what I think is unquestionably an extremely fine and nuanced performance put in by Bale.

My issue isn't with just the voice. It's the creative decision to make Batman as much of a false personality as the Playboy persona. I know Nolan and Bale have noted that the mask is a means of channeling inner rage, but that's not how it comes off, on-screen. The lost/confused young Bruce in BB's beginning, yeah that's someone who I can buy as being that aggressive. But the Bruce being played by Bale in BB's later half and the entire TDK is someone who is just an all-around honest guy who doesn't want to do this forever.

So when I see Bats yelling and acting all tough which is quite a departure from the private Bruce...it doesn't resonate with me. I know it's an act, and that kills the drama for me. Doesn't help that it comes off as forced on top of that.

Perhaps the worst part is Bale was my #1 choice for this role, prior to all of this. By all accounts, Bale is the best-looking and best actor this role has so far. It's just the way they took this role isn't what I had hoped for. Although Keaton is still my favorite, I'm convinced Bale could have one-upped him if Batman was written differently. I don't even necessarily want a rehash of Keaton and Conroy's portrayals. But I most definitely want a Batman who is his true self when in that costume. Essentially, someone who is very disturbed and tormented.

 

[*Id*]

My issue isn't with just the voice. It's the creative decision to make Batman as much of a false personality as the Playboy persona. I know Nolan and Bale have noted that the mask is a means of channeling inner rage, but that's not how it comes off, on-screen. The lost/confused young Bruce in BB's beginning, yeah that's someone who I can buy as being that aggressive. But the Bruce being played by Bale in BB's later half and the entire TDK is someone who is just an all-around honest guy who doesn't want to do this forever.

So when I see Bats yelling and acting all tough which is quite a departure from the private Bruce...it doesn't resonate with me. I know it's an act, and that kills the drama for me. Doesn't help that it comes off as forced on top of that.

Perhaps the worst part is Bale was my #1 choice for this role, prior to all of this. By all accounts, Bale is the best-looking and best actor this role has so far. It's just the way they took this role isn't what I had hoped for. Although Keaton is still my favorite, I'm convinced Bale could have one-upped him if Batman was written differently. I don't even necessarily want a rehash of Keaton and Conroy's portrayals. But I most definitely want a Batman who is his true self when in that costume. Essentially, someone who is very disturbed and tormented.

I don't see any reason why Batman has to act in any way like private Bruce. Sure, Batman is not a fake persona like the playboy Bruce in so much as he is an unrestrained channel of all of Bruce's repressed anger and rage but at the same time, I don't think all that fury in Bale's Batman is forced or is an act. I see them as quite genuine, like Ra's says "you fear your power, your fear your anger", sort of like Bruce's own Id in a way. The real Bruce Wayne is a tormented character because he is constantly torn between controlling those destructive impulses as Bruce Wayne, only to have them unleash it again as Batman. Well, that's how I read it anyway.

So essentially, it simply means that we prefer different versions of the character. I like the one in which Bruce Wayne is the real and dominant personality -the one that is honest yet vulnerable and has warmth, compassion and friends. Which Batman doesn't. I also prefer this version because it allows for the whole idea of Bruce's nightly escapades slowly starting to consume him to the point that Batman becomes the dominant persona in that Bruce starts becoming more and more obsessed and distant. I think this iteration of the character makes him far more appealing than the simple "Bruce Wayne is the mask, Batman is his true face" idea.

 

[Polux]

I don't see any reason why Batman has to act in any way like private Bruce. Sure, Batman is not a fake persona like the playboy Bruce in so much as he is an unrestrained channel of all of Bruce's repressed anger and rage but at the same time, I don't think all that fury in Bale's Batman is forced or is an act. I see them as quite genuine, like Ra's says "you fear your power, your fear your anger", sort of like Bruce's own Id in a way. The real Bruce Wayne is a tormented character because he is constantly torn between controlling those destructive impulses as Bruce Wayne, only to have them unleash it again as Batman. Well, that's how I read it anyway.

So essentially, it simply means that we prefer different versions of the character. I like the one in which Bruce Wayne is the real and dominant personality -the one that is honest yet vulnerable and has warmth, compassion and friends. Which Batman doesn't. I also prefer this version because it allows for the whole idea of Bruce's nightly escapades slowly starting to consume him to the point that Batman becomes the dominant persona in that Bruce starts becoming more and more obsessed and distant. I think this iteration of the character makes him far more appealing than the simple "Bruce Wayne is the mask, Batman is his true face" idea.

QFT. Right there with you, brother t:.


Polux

 

[Crook]

I don't see any reason why Batman has to act in any way like private Bruce.

I didn't say that. I said I wanted Batman to be completely free and most comfortable with himself when he's in that suit. This is per most of the stories told of the character.

Sure, Batman is not a fake persona like the playboy Bruce in so much as he is an unrestrained channel of all of Bruce's repressed anger and rage but at the same time, I don't think all that fury in Bale's Batman is forced or is an act. I see them as quite genuine, like Ra's says "you fear your power, your fear your anger", sort of like Bruce's own Id in a way. The real Bruce Wayne is a tormented character because he is constantly torn between controlling those destructive impulses as Bruce Wayne, only to have them unleash it again as Batman. Well, that's how I read it anyway.

As I've said previously, I'd have bought into this if that's how it actually played out (read: not given to us through dialog) on-screen. Bruce isn't a tormented soul in the least. At least one that is prone to self-damaging and violent behavior. Unless I'm severely having memory loss. You're free to cite some examples from both films.

So essentially, it simply means that we prefer different versions of the character. I like the one in which Bruce Wayne is the real and dominant personality -the one that is honest yet vulnerable and has warmth, compassion and friends. Which Batman doesn't. I also prefer this version because it allows for the whole idea of Bruce's nightly escapades slowly starting to consume him to the point that Batman becomes the dominant persona in that Bruce starts becoming more and more obsessed and distant.

You get that declination either way. So as long as the Bruce and Batman identities aren't identical, the prolonged exposure to a single persona so much that it leaks onto other facets of your life, will eventually occur.

I think this iteration of the character makes him far more appealing than the simple "Bruce Wayne is the mask, Batman is his true face" idea.

I'd rather not get into a long-winded diatribe when commenting on this. Just know that you're severely oversimplifying it.

 

[*Id*]

Crook,

I didn't say that. I said I wanted Batman to be completely free and most comfortable with himself when he's in that suit. This is per most of the stories told of the character.

Whatever gave you the idea that Bale's Batman is not comfortable with himself while in the suit? Just because he uses an artificial voice? That's only just another form of expressing his Batman persona and differentiating it from his real one. That's the difference between how you and I perceive the character. You want Bruce to feel himself whenever he is Batman because that's who he is, whereas I say whenever Bruce puts on that cowl, he is no longer the same...he changes, in both subtle and dramatic ways. His behavior is more aggressive, he becomes more intimidating, his demeanor turns ice cold and calculating, sometimes even towards his allies. Bruce allows himself to be so because that is what is required of him as Batman. Like any person, Bruce has both light and dark sides to him. Batman is Bruce's dark side...unhinged. His destructive impulses unleashed.

As I've said previously, I'd have bought into this if that's how it actually played out (read: not given to us through dialog) on-screen. Bruce isn't a tormented soul in the least. At least one that is prone to self-damaging and violent behavior. Unless I'm severely having memory loss. You're free to cite some examples from both films.

If I am understanding your meaning of 'self-damaging and violent behavior' correctly, then yes, it is evident in both films. Even moreso in Batman Begins - the opening prison fight, running away from Gotham after the confrontation at Falcone's bar, the decision to become a nighttime vigilante...all these are acts defining self-damaging and violent behavior. And in The Dark Knight, he is constantly at war with himself, with his desire to live a normal life with the woman he loves and with his obligation as Gotham's defender. His relationship with Harvey as both rival and ally. He is willingly subjecting himself to these dilemmas and suffering, when he could end it all by making a simple choice but he doesn't. He insists on walking the edge of the line in everything - his relationships, his conduct, his methods, his life, his 'code'...if that is not self-damaging then I don't know what is.

You get that declination either way. So as long as the Bruce and Batman identities aren't identical, the prolonged exposure to a single persona so much that it leaks onto other facets of your life, will eventually occur.

Not if you say Batman is who Bruce really is, because well, that is who you say he is and it won't be as dramatic a conflict when he is being consumed by a persona that was already dominant to begin with. In my preferred iteration of the character, that is not a problem because it is the real Bruce Wayne who is the dominant persona. That is why Alfred's line "you're getting lost inside this monster of yours" was so poignant. It made the clear distinction between the real Bruce and Batman as completely separate entities. Bruce created this monster and was becoming lost inside of it, meaning that he was starting to become someone he really isn't.

I'd rather not get into a long-winded diatribe when commenting on this. Just know that you're severely oversimplifying it.

I was just trying to sum up your school of thought in a small popular phrase. Apologies if it came off as an oversimplification. That was not my intention.

 

[RKO]

When comparing the Batmans from Batman '89/Returns and BB/TDK, you have to remember you're looking at 2 completely different kind of Batman here.

One has already been doing the vigilante, caped crusader thing for quite some time and is more experienced, he already is the Dark Knight in Batman '89.

And the other, is a Batman who is still learning and understanding, and has been fighting crime for just over a year or so, in TDK.

 

[nathaniel]

The batsuit to bales bruce wayne is a tool to scare crooks in Nolans film no more no less no matter what is said it always seems played that way i always saw bruce in the comics having an almost symbiotic relationship with it where it completes him as he is part wayne AND part batman in his mindset bale never walked this fine line convincinly imo.

Bale still seemed a quite bland bruce in the movies imo he looked the best actor so far to play bruce but displayed none the required feeling of intelligence i would expect he was mainly just one big frown and his over reliance with Fox still rankles me.

Examples are RDJ in Iron man and yes Keaton as bruce wayne as great acted intelligence. despite the lighter tone of IM RDJ manages to make Stark seem very intelligent despite his bantering style of acting, Keaton (still my favourite batman and bruce) excellently portrayed smarts crucially both as batman AND Wayne.

As batman Bale just seemed angry without real focus the way he was left reeling from joker plans was very poorly written too imo it i know its early batman but from the start i expected better the much lauded interrogation scene was just that,an interrogation, and a pretty boring one at that it is nothing more then them both throwing cliches at each other (people are essentially good/No people are essentially bad) and doesnt get much further then that ledgers efforts make the scene seem far more then it is and batman just looks a fool shouting and throwing joker around, as joker said "you cant intimidate me what else have you got?" which batman never really has an answer for. this is the moment batman should have been formulating the big "gotcha" twist that should have appeard at the end of the movie but it never appears it just seems it meanders on to batman fighting for hostages and then capturing joker, the end.

 

[SheldonLevene]

My issue isn't with just the voice. It's the creative decision to make Batman as much of a false personality as the Playboy persona. I know Nolan and Bale have noted that the mask is a means of channeling inner rage, but that's not how it comes off, on-screen. The lost/confused young Bruce in BB's beginning, yeah that's someone who I can buy as being that aggressive. But the Bruce being played by Bale in BB's later half and the entire TDK is someone who is just an all-around honest guy who doesn't want to do this forever.

So when I see Bats yelling and acting all tough which is quite a departure from the private Bruce...it doesn't resonate with me. I know it's an act, and that kills the drama for me. Doesn't help that it comes off as forced on top of that.

Perhaps the worst part is Bale was my #1 choice for this role, prior to all of this. By all accounts, Bale is the best-looking and best actor this role has so far. It's just the way they took this role isn't what I had hoped for. Although Keaton is still my favorite, I'm convinced Bale could have one-upped him if Batman was written differently. I don't even necessarily want a rehash of Keaton and Conroy's portrayals. But I most definitely want a Batman who is his true self when in that costume. Essentially, someone who is very disturbed and tormented.

I agree with every word of this.

 

[VenomVsSpidey]

The batsuit to bales bruce wayne is a tool to scare crooks in Nolans film no more no less no matter what is said it always seems played that way i always saw bruce in the comics having an almost symbiotic relationship with it where it completes him as he is part wayne AND part batman in his mindset bale never walked this fine line convincinly imo.

Bale still seemed a quite bland bruce in the movies imo he looked the best actor so far to play bruce but displayed none the required feeling of intelligence i would expect he was mainly just one big frown and his over reliance with Fox still rankles me.

As batman Bale just seemed angry without real focus the way he was left reeling from joker plans was very poorly written too imo it i know its early batman but from the start i expected better the much lauded interrogation scene was just that,an interrogation, and a pretty boring one at that it is nothing more then them both throwing cliches at each other (people are essentially good/No people are essentially bad) and doesnt get much further then that ledgers efforts make the scene seem far more then it is and batman just looks a fool shouting and throwing joker around, as joker said "you cant intimidate me what else have you got?" which batman never really has an answer for. this is the moment batman should have been formulating the big "gotcha" twist that should have appeard at the end of the movie but it never appears it just seems it meanders on to batman fighting for hostages and then capturing joker, the end.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

 

[Crook]

Whatever gave you the idea that Bale's Batman is not comfortable with himself while in the suit? Just because he uses an artificial voice? That's only just another form of expressing his Batman persona and differentiating it from his real one.

Yes, and it's called projecting. You cannot possibly be at sync with your true self if you're sensationalizing.

That's the difference between how you and I perceive the character. You want Bruce to feel himself whenever he is Batman because that's who he is, whereas I say whenever Bruce puts on that cowl, he is no longer the same...he changes, in both subtle and dramatic ways. His behavior is more aggressive, he becomes more intimidating, his demeanor turns ice cold and calculating, sometimes even towards his allies. Bruce allows himself to be so because that is what is required of him as Batman. Like any person, Bruce has both light and dark sides to him. Batman is Bruce's dark side...unhinged. His destructive impulses unleashed.

The only difference between our views is the bold. Much of what you wrote is essentially what I still want from the character. Whereas your view is of "Batman is Bruce's dark side, unhinged", mine is "(Private) Bruce is Batman's dark side, restrained".

If I am understanding your meaning of 'self-damaging and violent behavior' correctly, then yes, it is evident in both films. Even moreso in Batman Begins - the opening prison fight, running away from Gotham after the confrontation at Falcone's bar, the decision to become a nighttime vigilante...all these are acts defining self-damaging and violent behavior.

Read my initial post. Bruce pre-Batman is someone who I actually would buy as the aggressive personality. The "problem" was that when he came back, he seemed to have been cured from this inner-burden.

And in The Dark Knight, he is constantly at war with himself, with his desire to live a normal life with the woman he loves and with his obligation as Gotham's defender. His relationship with Harvey as both rival and ally. He is willingly subjecting himself to these dilemmas and suffering, when he could end it all by making a simple choice but he doesn't. He insists on walking the edge of the line in everything - his relationships, his conduct, his methods, his life, his 'code'...if that is not self-damaging then I don't know what is.

I used self-damaging in the most harshest of context. What Bruce is doing is sacrificing his own needs for the good of others. That is not what I was getting at. I'm looking for a direct correlation between Bruce's natural instinct and personal behavior that would manifest itself into such a "beast" when under that mask. As it stands, it still comes off as someone pretending. Which even by Nolan and Bale's accounts, is true.

I would most expect the Bale Batman, if it were truly a personality extension, to be stemmed from a Bruce who is absolutely at the brink of the edge in insanity or well consumed by it already. Can we honestly say Bale's Bruce is like this?

Not if you say Batman is who Bruce really is, because well, that is who you say he is and it won't be as dramatic a conflict when he is being consumed by a persona that was already dominant to begin with.

The dominance doesn't really matter. The point of the personality diffusion is that it damages areas set by boundaries (in Bruce's case, safezones) the psyche has created for itself. Once those distinctions are gone then everything is in a disarray. Inhibition has been eradicated, thus endangering friends/family who are not aware of certain quirks, behavior, and actions.

In my preferred iteration of the character, that is not a problem because it is the real Bruce Wayne who is the dominant persona. That is why Alfred's line "you're getting lost inside this monster of yours" was so poignant. It made the clear distinction between the real Bruce and Batman as completely separate entities. Bruce created this monster and was becoming lost inside of it, meaning that he was starting to become someone he really isn't.

The line is complete hogwash in context. It's a good line, but has little effect when it's not really true. Bruce was not remotely close to losing control of his mind or sanity. He was being reckless, yes, but you don't call someone crazy or insane for a momentary lapse in judgment. One instance of impulsive acts during a dire situation to save a love one's life...is understandable. Alfred was highly exaggerating things. That silly coot.

 

[nathaniel]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

I still stand by my feeling that Bale wasnt really that great as wayne he simply looked great and had an overuse of his trademark brooding face but considering bales abilities as an actor i think he wasnt really even trying (especially in TDK) in comparison to what i have seen in him before where do you really rate his BB/TDK performance in his career?.

Bale just didnt make the role his own in the way Hugh Jackman did as Wolvering,ron pearlman as hellboy,reeve as superman or RDJ as Iron Man for example imo he seemed simply the next guy who played batman.

I still think the realy amazing bruce wayne batman is still out there, Alec Baldwin is still the great missed oppertunity in comicbookfilms imo for not being cast in B89 despite Keaton being outstanding in the role. Baldwin had the acting ability the voice and the build to be amazing.

 

[*Id*]

Crook,

Yes, and it's called projecting. You cannot possibly be at sync with your true self if you're sensationalizing.

The only thing he's sensationalizing is his voice. And that too for the purposes of disguise and intimidation, which is very much required considering what he does. Otherwise, there is nothing else really that you can point at to show Bale's Bruce isn't free and comfortable with himself in the suit.

The only difference between our views is the bold. Much of what you wrote is essentially what I still want from the character. Whereas your view is of "Batman is Bruce's dark side, unhinged", mine is "(Private) Bruce is Batman's dark side, restrained".

Viva-la-difference.

Read my initial post. Bruce pre-Batman is someone who I actually would buy as the aggressive personality. The "problem" was that when he came back, he seemed to have been cured from this inner-burden.

His inner-burden at the time was that he was completely lost and just didn't know how to do what he really set out to accomplish. He was angry and frustrated and that was manifested through his aggressive behavior. When he came back to Gotham he was more at peace with himself because he finally knew exactly what he had to do. But aggression can also be a permanent trait of one's personality rather than just a mere circumstantial outburst. It's what I meant by Batman being the dark side of Bruce's psyche. It's an extension of all his rage and destructive impulses. But is by no means what the Bruce Wayne character is all about.

I used self-damaging in the most harshest of context. What Bruce is doing is sacrificing his own needs for the good of others. That is not what I was getting at. I'm looking for a direct correlation between Bruce's natural instinct and personal behavior that would manifest itself into such a "beast" when under that mask. As it stands, it still comes off as someone pretending. Which even by Nolan and Bale's accounts, is true.

I have yet to see any interview or quotes in which either Nolan or Bale said that Bale's Batman is just mere pretending. Can you please show me exactly when, what and where they said this, because it is possible that you simply might have misinterpreted their meaning.

I would most expect the Bale Batman, if it were truly a personality extension, to be stemmed from a Bruce who is absolutely at the brink of the edge in insanity or well consumed by it already. Can we honestly say Bale's Bruce is like this?

I don't see why you think a person has to be crazy or at the brink of insanity to have a darker side to his personality. Bruce is a person who has gone through a terrible tragedy at a very young age. You honestly think that such a person, who though outwardly appearing to be quite calm and controlled, is exactly normal by all accounts? Just because we subconsciously deny acknowledging our darker impulses due to personal inhibitions or social restraints does not mean they are not there or that we are not capable of them. You can clearly see it in the interrogation scene in which Batman goes berserk that he is not pretending. Instead of keeping his wits about him like Gordon, Batman completely loses control and is at his most vulnerable. It's about as honest as it gets.

The dominance doesn't really matter. The point of the personality diffusion is that it damages areas set by boundaries (in Bruce's case, safezones) the psyche has created for itself. Once those distinctions are gone then everything is in a disarray. Inhibition has been eradicated, thus endangering friends/family who are not aware of certain quirks, behavior, and actions.

Yes, but the likelihood of diffusion is increased when the persona in control isn't the dominant one, thereby reducing its impact. It's like someone who you know to be rather erratic and unusual. Seeing negative behavioral changes in such an individual is neither surprising nor dramatic since you believed them to be half-crazy anyway. You have yourself admitted that what I said about Bruce being different as Batman is correct. If so, wouldn't that also imply that the aggressive, intimidating, cold and detached figure that is Batman is who Bruce really is? That all his love, care and compassion for his friends and family is merely his dark side restrained rather than his true self?

The line is complete hogwash in context. It's a good line, but has little effect when it's not really true. Bruce was not remotely close to losing control of his mind or sanity. He was being reckless, yes, but you don't call someone crazy or insane for a momentary lapse in judgment. One instance of impulsive acts during a dire situation to save a love one's life...is understandable. Alfred was highly exaggerating things. That silly coot.

No, Alfred was right. He didn't say Bruce was crazy or insane for his impulsive behavior. He was rebuking Bruce was acting selfishly when he should been responsible and exercised a bit more caution. Sure, he was trying to save a life, but his recklessness could have endangered others. That's why he says "well we both care for Rachel, sir, but what you are doing has to be beyond that, it can't be personal". Alfred's line about Bruce getting lost inside his monster was meant to highlight that Alfred knew that Bruce becomes more violent and aggressive whenever he puts on the cape and cowl and that he should always consciously keep his aggression under control instead of letting it cloud his judgment.

 

[Crook]

The only thing he's sensationalizing is his voice. And that too for the purposes of disguise and intimidation, which is very much required considering what he does. Otherwise, there is nothing else really that you can point at to show Bale's Bruce isn't free and comfortable with himself in the suit.

I didn't exactly say he wasn't free and comfortable in some form. I said he wasn't at his most truest to self when under that mask. His entire bat persona is created as a means of evoking a certain reaction from the people he's around. As I said: projecting. It is inherently a form of deceit.

His inner-burden at the time was that he was completely lost and just didn't know how to do what he really set out to accomplish. He was angry and frustrated and that was manifested through his aggressive behavior. When he came back to Gotham he was more at peace with himself because he finally knew exactly what he had to do. But aggression can also be a permanent trait of one's personality rather than just a mere circumstantial outburst. It's what I meant by Batman being the dark side of Bruce's psyche. It's an extension of all his rage and destructive impulses. But is by no means what the Bruce Wayne character is all about.

You cannot be consciously at peace, and aggressively out-of-control at the same time. That is, if we're to assume that Bruce isn't crazy. That crazy, macho stunt he pulls is an act. The Flass interrogation, for example. It works great there.

I suppose he was semi-honest when he started beating on Joker. But the mere fact that he still maintains his bat-persona, which is a complete fabrication in and of itself, tells me he was still aware of what he's embodying. Chock up another con for me as a result of this interpretation. Batman can never truly be "out of control" if he's consciously exerting that bat-voice and gruff exterior. It comes off as silly to keep the charade going when there's some potential personal moments at hand. Be it emotionally charged up, or drained (see my sig).

I have yet to see any interview or quotes in which either Nolan or Bale said that Bale's Batman is just mere pretending. Can you please show me exactly when, what and where they said this, because it is possible that you simply might have misinterpreted their meaning.

You've never heard either of them use the term "create" in reference to Bruce and Batman? I'll look if you insist, but I'm pretty sure this was common knowledge by now. The very fact that Batman is an entirely different character from Bruce in the first place, entails some form of pretending/projecting/sensationalizing. Yes or no?

I don't see why you think a person has to be crazy or at the brink of insanity to have a darker side to his personality. Bruce is a person who has gone through a terrible tragedy at a very young age. You honestly think that such a person, who though outwardly appearing to be quite calm and controlled, is exactly normal by all accounts? Just because we subconsciously deny acknowledging our darker impulses due to personal inhibitions or social restraints does not mean they are not there or that we are not capable of them. You can clearly see it in the interrogation scene in which Batman goes berserk that he is not pretending. Instead of keeping his wits about him like Gordon, Batman completely loses control and is at his most vulnerable. It's about as honest as it gets.

Look up just a few paragraphs, I've addressed this. "Out of control" is self-explanatory. I realize many reference this scene as an example of that. But if you figure in how in-control you have to be to sustain the Batman character in the way Bale has...then I'm sure it's quite easy to see how that can be argued.

Yes, but the likelihood of diffusion is increased when the persona in control isn't the dominant one, thereby reducing its impact. It's like someone who you know to be rather erratic and unusual. Seeing negative behavioral changes in such an individual is neither surprising nor dramatic since you believed them to be half-crazy anyway.

Again, the dominant side does not matter because no one else but the individual themselves truly knows which side is "truest". The sudden 180 from any emotional equilibrium is what upsets the balance, so to speak. Whether it be calm --> crazy, or crazy --> calm. Whichever one your peers knows more, a shift to a different extreme is just as jarring.

You have yourself admitted that what I said about Bruce being different as Batman is correct. If so, wouldn't that also imply that the aggressive, intimidating, cold and detached figure that is Batman is who Bruce really is? That all his love, care and compassion for his friends and family is merely his dark side restrained rather than his true self?

No. It's the entire "scary monster" act he pulls that prevents me from seriously considering it's his true self. As I've said, the voice alone takes considerable effort and focus to maintain. If he were truly being released of his constraints, he wouldn't be forcing anything.

No, Alfred was right. He didn't say Bruce was crazy or insane for his impulsive behavior. He was rebuking Bruce was acting selfishly when he should been responsible and exercised a bit more caution. Sure, he was trying to save a life, but his recklessness could have endangered others. That's why he says "well we both care for Rachel, sir, but what you are doing has to be beyond that, it can't be personal".

Reckless, yes. Selfish, no. Under the circumstances it was understandable what he had done. Given this was Batman's rookie year, even more apparent that he has a lot to learn.

Alfred's line about Bruce getting lost inside his monster was meant to highlight that Alfred knew that Bruce becomes more violent and aggressive whenever he puts on the cape and cowl and that he should always consciously keep his aggression under control instead of letting it cloud his judgment.

Rachel was dying. That line would have been more prudent if somehow Alfred knew what Bruce did to Joker in the interrogation room. But not in this case. A loved one was about to die, and time was of the essence. That is simply not grounds for rebuking.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Check out artist Gary Frank's upcoming graphic novel BATMAN: EARTH ONE character design of Batman it looks like Christian Bale .

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

That's awesome... I was wondering the other day if Gary Frank had ever done Batman. Young Bruce doesn't look creepy and sickly like young Clark does either

 

[Two-Face]

I love the suit, looks like Burton's Batman.

 

[Ace of Knaves]

Those are some cool designs.

 

[Wolfman]

Check out artist Gary Frank's upcoming graphic novel BATMAN: EARTH ONE character design of Batman it looks like Christian Bale .

I can't say I see it. Speaking of Christian, he is rather slim again.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Check out artist Gary Frank's upcoming graphic novel BATMAN: EARTH ONE character design of Batman it looks like Christian Bale .

Finally a belt that's both practical and high tech/cool looking.

 

[Nightwing 52]

Wow, feels like forever since I've been in this thread.

 

[BestGirl]

I can't say I see it. Speaking of Christian, he is rather slim again.

I believe that movie's done filming.