The Clinton Thread

[souvlaki]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/14/clinton-campaign-were-ahead-in-the-popular-vote/

Can somebody say "delusional?"

I understand the whole "caucuses are undemocratic" argument, but regardless of your opinion about caucuses, how can anyone demand Michigan and Florida be seated and in the same sentence disenfranchise the voters of caucus states just because you don't like the way they did things. God, I would love to live in the world of Bill and Hillary Clinton, and just make up the rules for everything to work for me.

 

[kainedamo]

Reminds me of the episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm where Larry is ahead of a woman in a que at the doctors office, but the woman gets seen to first because her appointment time was first.

Larry complained that it was unfair because he was first in line.

The next time Larry gets to the office, he sees the same woman and she manages to beat him in a race to the desk. His appointment time is first though, so he figures he'll get seen first. But because of his complaining last time they changed it to first come first serve, so the woman gets before him again. Larry again complains, and the woman he's complaining to basically says "you bascially want us to change the rules so that no matter what you get seen first", and Larry says "Exactly!", hilarious.

This is basically the same situation.

Whatever scenario makes Hillary look like a winner her camp is happy with.

 

[Marx]

I understand the whole "caucuses are undemocratic" argument, but regardless of your opinion about caucuses, how can anyone demand Michigan and Florida be seated and in the same sentence disenfranchise the voters of caucus states just because you don't like the way they did things. God, I would love to live in the world of Bill and Hillary Clinton, and just make up the rules for everything to work for me.

The whole system needs to be redone.

 

[The Senator]

I understand the whole "caucuses are undemocratic" argument, but regardless of your opinion about caucuses, how can anyone demand Michigan and Florida be seated and in the same sentence disenfranchise the voters of caucus states just because you don't like the way they did things. God, I would love to live in the world of Bill and Hillary Clinton, and just make up the rules for everything to work for me.

She knew what the rules were when she decided to seek the Democratic Party's nomination. Her campaign was fully aware that there would be primaries and caucuses. So regardless of whether she thinks they're undemocratic or not, she knew what the rules were in every single state and she did not show any opposition to the system. Hell, she spent most of her time campaigning in Iowa. She even won Nevada. So basically all her campaign is doing is saying, "well, if you count these states, but don't count these states, we win." That proves she's grasping for straws right there, and that the Clinton campaign has lost any remaining credibility it once had.

 

[souvlaki]

The whole system needs to be redone.

Yeah, but unfortunately Doc Brown hasn't invented that time machine yet. For now we are stuck with the choices the DNC made.

 

[StorminNorman]

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/05/14/clinton-campaign-were-ahead-in-the-popular-vote/

Can somebody say "delusional?"

Terry McAuliffe is crazy

 

[Marx]

Yeah, but unfortunately Doc Brown hasn't invented that time machine yet. For now we are stuck with the choices the DNC made.

Hopefully this will all lead to some kind of reorganization of the DNC and its way of doing things in the future. (I doubt it, but I can hope.)

 

[souvlaki]

Hopefully this will all lead to some kind of reorganization of the DNC and its way of doing things in the future. (I doubt it, but I can hope.)

After the way this went, I can almost guarantee there will be major changes by the time of the next major Democratic Presidential primary. This whole primary was a disaster in multiple ways and the DNC knows it.

 

[Marx]

After the way this went, I can almost guarantee there will be major changes by the time of the next major Democratic Presidential primary. This whole primary was a disaster in multiple ways and the DNC knows it.

There has to be some kind of change to this process. The DNC better get their act together.

 

[Raiden]

After the way this went, I can almost guarantee there will be major changes by the time of the next major Democratic Presidential primary. This whole primary was a disaster in multiple ways and the DNC knows it.

I agree. This kind of drag-out race between the nominees should never happen again.

 

[Matt]

After the way this went, I can almost guarantee there will be major changes by the time of the next major Democratic Presidential primary. This whole primary was a disaster in multiple ways and the DNC knows it.

I doubt it. Everyone was saying the electoral college would be gone by 2004 after the 2000 debacle.

That being said, if the Democrats were smart, they would change it to winner take all primaries and do away with super delelgates like the Republicans. Oddly enough however, if there were winner take all primaries, Hilldog would have a commanding lead and Obama likely would've been forced to drop out ages ago. Also, get rid of caucuses.

 

[StorminNorman]

I doubt it. Everyone was saying the electoral college would be gone by 2004 after the 2000 debacle.

That being said, if the Democrats were smart, they would change it to winner take all primaries and do away with super delelgates like the Republicans. Oddly enough however, if there were winner take all primaries, Hilldog would have a commanding lead and Obama likely would've been forced to drop out ages ago. Also, get rid of caucuses.

The Electoral College isn't corrupt though, the Democrat system of nominating candidates are - it requires attention.

 

[Matt]

The Electoral College isn't corrupt though, the Democrat system of nominating candidates are - it requires attention.

It does need attention, but the Democrats are too arrogant to say admit it does. I mean, hell, when Jon Stewart asked the chairman, Howard Dean about the undemocratic super delegate system, Dean's only response was "Its more democratic than the Republican system." I really wish it were a Republican who said that so Stewart would've actually forced him to elaborate on that instead of letting him get away with such an outrageously stupid comment.

 

[Marx]

You know, in all honesty, the Democrats should just adopt the Republican way of nominations. I don't see a problem with winner take all, and get rid of the stupid caucuses!

 

[Marx]

It does need attention, but the Democrats are too arrogant to say admit it does. I mean, hell, when Jon Stewart asked the chairman, Howard Dean about the undemocratic super delegate system, Dean's only response was "Its more democratic than the Republican system." I really wish it were a Republican who said that so Stewart would've actually forced him to elaborate on that instead of letting him get away with such an outrageously stupid comment.

Howard Dean doesn't have a clue.

 

[The Senator]

The Electoral College isn't corrupt though, the Democrat system of nominating candidates are - it requires attention.

The electoral college is not corrupt, but it needs to be eliminated. It doesn't serve a purpose anymore.

The Democrats need winner-take-all primaries, and they should get rid of the caucuses altogether. That's the best way to fix the system, but that probably won't happen.

 

[The Senator]

Howard Dean doesn't have a clue.

Howard Dean was the best choice for chairman of the DNC. His fifty state strategy has done wonders for the Democratic Party. As for the presidential primary, it's not his fault two "rockstar" candidates sought the nomination. This is the only time under the current system that the party has faced such a convoluted mess.

 

[kainedamo]

The Democrats need winner-take-all primaries, and they should get rid of the caucuses altogether. That's the best way to fix the system, but that probably won't happen.

Winner-take-all doesn't make much sense.

You have a LOT of states where the vote margin was almost half and half between Hillary and Obama. How fair would it be if ALL the delegates in one state went to one single canditate, if just a little less than half the voters voted the other person.

 

[Matt]

Howard Dean was the best choice for chairman of the DNC. His fifty state strategy has done wonders for the Democratic Party. As for the presidential primary, it's not his fault two "rockstar" candidates sought the nomination. This is the only time under the current system that the party has faced such a convoluted mess.

It is his fault that he can't keep his mouth shut. The chairman should be raising money, not making an ass of himself and in turn the party every time he opens his mouth. Dean should've never been in a position where a late night talk host could make such an ass of him.

 

[Marx]

Winner-take-all doesn't make much sense.

You have a LOT of states where the vote margin was almost half and half between Hillary and Obama. How fair would it be if ALL the delegates in one state went to one single canditate, if just a little less than half the voters voted the other person.

It works pretty well for the Republicans Kaine.

 

[kainedamo]

It works pretty well for the Republicans Kaine.

But the republicans didn't have two canditates so closely matched in terms of votes.

When the votes are so close, winner-takes-all isn't very democratic.

 

[Marx]

Howard Dean was the best choice for chairman of the DNC. His fifty state strategy has done wonders for the Democratic Party. As for the presidential primary, it's not his fault two "rockstar" candidates sought the nomination. This is the only time under the current system that the party has faced such a convoluted mess.

It is his fault that he can't keep his mouth shut. The chairman should be raising money, not making an ass of himself and in turn the party every time he opens his mouth. Dean should've never been in a position where a late night talk host could make such an ass of him.

Howard Dean may have good strategies from time to time, but he can't keep his mouth shut. If I recall correctly, it was his mouth that ended up costing him the nomination in the first place. Obviously, he hasn't learned that lesson yet.

 

[Marx]

But the republicans didn't have two canditates so closely matched in terms of votes.

When the votes are so close, winner-takes-all isn't very democratic.

I completely understand your point, but something has to be done Kaine. It cannot continue this way.

 

[StorminNorman]

The Democrats need winner-take-all primaries, and they should get rid of the caucuses altogether. That's the best way to fix the system, but that probably won't happen.

Getting rid of the Super Delegates is a good way to start fixing the Democrats problems.

 

[StorminNorman]

But the republicans didn't have two canditates so closely matched in terms of votes.

When the votes are so close, winner-takes-all isn't very democratic.

Romney and McCain?