The Clinton Thread

[Excel]

There is a way and I think itll happen. After a rousing big winin NC, most of the unpledged super delegates flee to Obama giving him a lead in that column as well. This makes even more come out in support of him and some leave hillary for him for the will of the party. Hillarys mysteriously announces shes gonna stop taking donations for the time being and sees through a few more states and losses in the west force her to call it quits in mid May.

 

[The Senator]

There is a way and I think itll happen. After a rousing big winin NC, most of the unpledged super delegates flee to Obama giving him a lead in that column as well. This makes even more come out in support of him and some leave hillary for him for the will of the party. Hillarys mysteriously announces shes gonna stop taking donations for the time being and sees through a few more states and losses in the west force her to call it quits in mid May.

The problem with your theory is that Obama has been expected to win North Carolina throughout this contest. He isn't winning a state which wasn't expected to go to him. If he wins Pennsylvania, then the race may be over sooner than expected. If he doesn't, and goes on to do what's been expected of him since mid-February, then nothing will change whatsoever. The race will continue long into the summer, probably until the convention.

 

[blackcobra]

Hillary is the biggest friggin liar ever. How can any of her supporters defend this.

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/04/someone-doesnt.html

 

[The Senator]

Hillary is the biggest friggin liar ever. How can any of her supporters defend this.

http://www.jedreport.com/2008/04/someone-doesnt.html

We get it, she lied about Bosnia. I'm certainly not defending her.

But, now that we're talking about "biggest friggin liars"...

How can Obama supporters defend his comments that all rural voters are racist, religious zealots? How can Obama supporters defend the fact that he takes money from lobbyists when he's run an entire campaign based on not accepting money from those people? How can Obama supporters defend his decision to hire a racist lunatic to head up his spiritual outreach program?

etc. etc....

 

[Zen]

Maliki's government ordered the Iraqi military operation which resulted in al-Sadr calling for a ceasefire

the ceasefire was brokered by Iran.

Now, I grant you that the approach to the war was greatly flawed for the first 4 years. But then General Petraeus took charge, made changes in strategy, suggested the surge, and it has all worked. We are moving toward victory, as the very evidence on the ground affirms.

So if we are making progress and moving toward victory, how can it then be said that there is "no foreseeable path to victory"? Do you not believe that our military can win this war?

I beleive the only way we can trully win this war is two bolster our troop strength by another 1/2

and i dont beleive we have the resources to do this, human or monetary.

untill then, progress is fragile... so fragile that we are counting a handfull of less death as progress.

al-queada-in-Iraq is less than 2-5 percent of the extremists in Iraq... to have them "on the run" all you need to do is be crafty enough to find one of them and shoot at them, if he runs away you've essentially got a good percentage of them on the run.

oh and korea?

in south korea 33 percent think the main enemy is north Korea... while 34% think its the US. That sucks, im not saying our troops who faught in the korean war did not do there job, nor am i saying i do not support them...

i think the outcome of that is not what i want to happen in Iraq... yet McCain keeps referencing it as paragon of presence.

Just once i want to see him say something relatively intelligent about either the war or the economy. thats all i ask.

 

[Zen]

We get it, she lied about Bosnia. I'm certainly not defending her.

But, now that we're talking about "biggest friggin liars"...

How can Obama supporters defend his comments that all rural voters are racist, religious zealots? How can Obama supporters defend the fact that he takes money from lobbyists when he's run an entire campaign based on not accepting money from those people? How can Obama supporters defend his decision to hire a racist lunatic to head up his spiritual outreach program?

etc. etc....

while your point is valid... and let me say it again

your point is valid.

2 things, i suscribe to what Obama said in the debate last night... we have to move passed this and focus on issues. he defended clinton on the bosnia thing. whereas she clung to clawing at him.

second... your post is exagerative. period.

racist religious zealots, racist lunatic.... Whoah nelly. he takes no money from federally registered lobbyists... theres many examples on the web of how certain peoples money has been turned back. with so many individual people donating i can see its hard to sift through them all when the average donation out of a a million or so people is 50-100 dollars. he recently gave back a 150,000 dollar donation cause it was from a lobbyist who wasnt registered but might as well been.

Clinton supporters are angry about Obama because he seems like he should have gone ddown in flames already, but somehow he keeps righting the ship and sailing on...

Obama supporters are angry because they think hillary should drop out at this point.

then theres folks who i completely understand... who are tired of the battle, and just want a democratic leader to emerge so they can vote cherub cheeked McCain out of the possiblity of the presidential office.

i dont think hillary should drop out, it will temper Obama if he wins, and if she wins somehow then she validates her presence either way in my book. Obama has made some serious Gaffes in my opinion... i do not think the reverend wright thing is anywhere near noteworthy when considering Obama's character... but what he said in PA was just terribly worded. he rephrased it last night and i think it helped a little... as its more clear now, but you cant erase the bitter thing. Reverend Wright has barely made a dent in his candidacy, the PA statments... he may have lost some crucial voters there, as i think he officially ended his momentum and possibility of winning that state.

Obama may come off as a shrewd politician to some, or even an elitist now... but ill take what john stewart said about elitist presidents...

after someone like bush, i want someone who is embarrasingly superior to me as president.

 

[blackcobra]

We get it, she lied about Bosnia. I'm certainly not defending her.

But, now that we're talking about "biggest friggin liars"...

How can Obama supporters defend his comments that all rural voters are racist, religious zealots? How can Obama supporters defend the fact that he takes money from lobbyists when he's run an entire campaign based on not accepting money from those people? How can Obama supporters defend his decision to hire a racist lunatic to head up his spiritual outreach program?

etc. etc....

He didn't say that, but what Hillary did say on that video is that she supported Nafta. That's the smoking gun in the video. Hillarys campaign, and rightwing conservatives have been making racist claims against Obama since this race started.

And plus, how can you be a member of a party that mislead us into war, How can you support a President that sat during 911 for half an hour while Americans were being burned alive. How can you support a party that brought us warrantless wire taps. How can you support a party where the president refuses to go under-oath for the 911 commission. Only innocent people do that right?

How can you support a party that has brought us GITMO, torture chambers in Abu Gharib, suspension of habeas corpus. How could you support a party that's for arresting Americans without any proof of evidence, only to be convicted by a military tribunal. Yeah, you don't won't to go there.



Those are the real issues. Not tabloid muckraking and he said she said.

 

[blackcobra]

Yeah, but polls also had Obama up that much in Massachusetts and California... while some polls showed Clinton with a strong double-digit lead...

Also, I don't think this will affect the Democratic Primary at all, but it will affect independent, blue-collar voters in Michigan, Ohio and Pennsylvania during the general election. John McCain won't let these comments go unnoticed, especially since the demographics Obama targeted make up a good part of those three swing states...

The Reagan Democrats were never going to vote for Obama anyway. Obama is going for affluent voters, the Reagan Democrats continue to vote against their economic interests every election. And that's why they continue to suffer the consequences of their votes with lost jobs, open borders, and the middle class tax burden.

 

[Marx]

while your point is valid... and let me say it again

your point is valid.

2 things, i suscribe to what Obama said in the debate last night... we have to move passed this and focus on issues. he defended clinton on the bosnia thing. whereas she clung to clawing at him.

second... your post is exagerative. period.

racist religious zealots, racist lunatic.... Whoah nelly. he takes no money from federally registered lobbyists... theres many examples on the web of how certain peoples money has been turned back. with so many individual people donating i can see its hard to sift through them all when the average donation out of a a million or so people is 50-100 dollars. he recently gave back a 150,000 dollar donation cause it was from a lobbyist who wasnt registered but might as well been.

Clinton supporters are angry about Obama because he seems like he should have gone ddown in flames already, but somehow he keeps righting the ship and sailing on...

Obama supporters are angry because they think hillary should drop out at this point.

then theres folks who i completely understand... who are tired of the battle, and just want a democratic leader to emerge so they can vote cherub cheeked McCain out of the possiblity of the presidential office.

i dont think hillary should drop out, it will temper Obama if he wins, and if she wins somehow then she validates her presence either way in my book. Obama has made some serious Gaffes in my opinion... i do not think the reverend wright thing is anywhere near noteworthy when considering Obama's character... but what he said in PA was just terribly worded. he rephrased it last night and i think it helped a little... as its more clear now, but you cant erase the bitter thing. Reverend Wright has barely made a dent in his candidacy, the PA statments... he may have lost some crucial voters there, as i think he officially ended his momentum and possibility of winning that state.

Obama may come off as a shrewd politician to some, or even an elitist now... but ill take what john stewart said about elitist presidents...

after someone like bush, i want someone who is embarrasingly superior to me as president.

1. Jman's post isn't an exaggeration. Period.

2. Obama does in fact take lobbyist money. So before blindly claimly otherwise, read the article.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2008-04-15-obama_N.htm?se=yahoorefer

3. Obama supporters feel the same way about Clinton that you just described. Obama's supporters are frustrated because Clinton just won't quit. Well Zen, why should she? She continues to win when she needs to and still holds about half the democratic electorate in supporters. Do you really think telling half of the democratic electorate to lie down is democratic? I didn't think so.

4. Reverend Wright has affected Obama's campaign. To suggest otherwise tells me that you must not be paying attention. Obama is losing more and more independent and republican swing voter support with each passing misstatement and controvery. That's a fact. And that fact will hurt him in the GE assuming he gains the nomination first.

He didn't say that, but what Hillary did say on that video is that she supported Nafta. That's the smoking gun in the video. Hillarys campaign, and rightwing conservatives have been making racist claims against Obama since this race started.

And plus, how can you be a member of a party that mislead us into war, How can you support a President that sat during 911 for half an hour while Americans were being burned alive. How can you support a party that brought us warrantless wire taps. How can you support a party where the president refuses to go under-oath for the 911 commission. Only innocent people do that right?

How can you support a party that has brought us GITMO, torture chambers in Abu Gharib, suspension of habeas corpus. How could you support a party that's for arresting Americans without any proof of evidence, only to be convicted by a military tribunal. Yeah, you don't won't to go there.



Those are the real issues. Not tabloid muckraking and he said she said.

1. Hillary's campaign has not made racist comments. Have they said some things they should not have said in certain ways? Yes. But I'm sick to death of people labeling anyone as a racist because they say anything against Obama or question his background! It is not racist to question how someone got to be where they are. It is a conversation that we should be having. Unfortunately, anyone who doesn't seem to support him MUST be some kind of racist. Give me a break.

2. Obama has done just as much "He said, she said" as Clinton. He has played just as dirty. Obama is no saint, I don't care how eloquent the speech. He is no different from any other politician out there, regardless of his claims otherwise.

 

[Marx]

Yeah, I did say that. But that doesn't mean it won't have an affect on him. There is such a thing as having an opinion and looking at a situation objectively...

Very few Obama supporters that I have seen or know look at anything involving him...objectively.

 

[Excel]

The problem with your theory is that Obama has been expected to win North Carolina throughout this contest. He isn't winning a state which wasn't expected to go to him. If he wins Pennsylvania, then the race may be over sooner than expected. If he doesn't, and goes on to do what's been expected of him since mid-February, then nothing will change whatsoever. The race will continue long into the summer, probably until the convention.

Jman, people just want this to end. NC win will make it LITERALLY impossible for her to within 150 delegartes of him. Same way there were rumors of supers fleeing to him after a big state win of texas or ohio, it will happen if he wins pennsyvania, and if not then, itll happen when he wins NC. Its not so much expectations or state size...they just want the friggin thing to end. Its far too clear to too many people that Obama will win and they just want it over. When its pretty clear who the winner will be, theres no point in dragging it on another 4 months. Thats the logic many are using and they are just waiting tomake a large, mass movement.

 

[Marx]

Jman, people just want this to end. NC win will make it LITERALLY impossible for her to within 150 delegartes of him. Same way there were rumors of supers fleeing to him after a big state win of texas or ohio, it will happen if he wins pennsyvania, and if not then, itll happen when he wins NC. Its not so much expectations or state size...they just want the friggin thing to end. Its far too clear to too many people that Obama will win and they just want it over. When its pretty clear who the winner will be, theres no point in dragging it on another 4 months. Thats the logic many are using and they are just waiting tomake a large, mass movement.

Obama has not won any state that he wasn't expected to Ex. That's the thing. Regardless of how much longer this back and forth goes, it is obvious that both candidates still have a very large and committed base. Are people tired of it being dragged out? Yes. But both candidates still have valid arguments for the nomination. It's true that Hillary cannot win in pledged delegates. I think the whole contest has moved beyond that now. It is going to come down to Supers, and more than likely at the convention. And with all of the misstatements and controversies surrounding Obama, I wouldn't be so sure that the Supers will "flock" to him just to end this. They are going to go with whoever they feel their best option is to win the GE and who can do the most for them.

 

[Excel]

Yes they will. A rousing 15% win in North Carolina, a real ass-beating in a large state with over 100 delegates, will be so damn damaging for her press. At this point, many supers on the fence will go to him, which will cause even mroe on fence/undecided supers to go to him as well. There will be clinching of 2,025. He'll have a pledged delegate lead of close to 200 and a lead in supers as well, and thats when itl end. Her argument for the past 2 months has been shell win via supers and when she loses the lead in supers that she has had for ever, itll be symbollic. The press wil runaway with how Obama now leads her amongst the only hope she had to win. Her people will tell her flatly it wont work, and amongst defeaning calls to quit and bad press, shell graciously bow out.

 

[Kelly]

Excel, a good spell check on that post, would do a lot to give credibility.....wow...... *winks*

 

[The Senator]

He didn't say that, but what Hillary did say on that video is that she supported Nafta. That's the smoking gun in the video. Hillarys campaign, and rightwing conservatives have been making racist claims against Obama since this race started.

And plus, how can you be a member of a party that mislead us into war, How can you support a President that sat during 911 for half an hour while Americans were being burned alive. How can you support a party that brought us warrantless wire taps. How can you support a party where the president refuses to go under-oath for the 911 commission. Only innocent people do that right?

How can you support a party that has brought us GITMO, torture chambers in Abu Gharib, suspension of habeas corpus. How could you support a party that's for arresting Americans without any proof of evidence, only to be convicted by a military tribunal. Yeah, you don't won't to go there.



Those are the real issues. Not tabloid muckraking and he said she said.

I truly hope you did not just imply that I was a member of the Republican party...

 

[Kelly]

Lmao.......

 

[The Senator]

Yes they will. A rousing 15% win in North Carolina, a real ass-beating in a large state with over 100 delegates, will be so damn damaging for her press. At this point, many supers on the fence will go to him, which will cause even mroe on fence/undecided supers to go to him as well. There will be clinching of 2,025. He'll have a pledged delegate lead of close to 200 and a lead in supers as well, and thats when itl end. Her argument for the past 2 months has been shell win via supers and when she loses the lead in supers that she has had for ever, itll be symbollic. The press wil runaway with how Obama now leads her amongst the only hope she had to win. Her people will tell her flatly it wont work, and amongst defeaning calls to quit and bad press, shell graciously bow out.

Sigh... I have to use the big font again...

Hillary has been expected to lose NC since February!

She has been consistently behind or tied with Obama since the Potomac Primary on February 12. Her campaign has pretty much avoided the state because they know she is going to lose it. North Carolina is not the be all, end all. There are a few states left after North Carolina, the most prominent being Indiana, which she may very well win. There's no way she's going to drop out before all the contests are decided. Why would she drop out when she's come so far? Why would she drop out when Obama won't have 2025 delegates one way or another?

She's not going to let this go because the media will kiss Obama's ass like they always do. Not. At. All.

 

[The Senator]

The Reagan Democrats were never going to vote for Obama anyway. Obama is going for affluent voters, the Reagan Democrats continue to vote against their economic interests every election. And that's why they continue to suffer the consequences of their votes with lost jobs, open borders, and the middle class tax burden.

I wasn't talking about Reagan Democrats. I was talking about swing voters-- the voters who don't make up their minds until long after the primary contests are decided and the general election is only a few weeks away. These are the people who don't decide who they're voting for until a week or so before the election, who may say one day "I'm voting for Obama" but support McCain two days later. Obama can't afford to make gaffes like this, especially when those gaffes target the voters who make or break Presidential elections in these crucial swing states.

 

[Mr Sparkle]

Ugh, Sparkle. Must you disagree with everything I say? While some do cling to "guns and religion," the vast majority do not. The broad generalization that Obama made is inaccurate.

I'll disagree with you every time I think your statements are wrong.
I mean, I don't go like " I don't agree with him, but I have disagreed the last ten times, so I better break tradition this time"

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Not really.

Basically 70% of Hillary's campaign has been about attacking Obama. Obama's made some remarks about McCain and Clinton, but not nearly to the same extent that Hillary and Bill have.

Don't bother. I gave up trying to reason with Marx and Matt a long time ago.

We all know that Obama has worked hard to take the "higher" road throughout this campaign and he NEVER has dug into Hillary's past to give the Republican's ammo. Ever. He has treated her with dignity and respect--which she has not reciprocated...unless by force of arms. I will give him credit for that--he's tried to stick to the issues, not the pettiness.

Anyway. Objectivity around here is a dying art...so...

 

[Marx]

Don't bother. I gave up trying to reason with Marx and Matt a long time ago.

We all know that Obama has worked hard to take the "higher" road throughout this campaign and he NEVER has dug into Hillary's past to give the Republican's ammo. Ever. He has treated her with dignity and respect--which she has not reciprocated...unless by force of arms. I will give him credit for that--he's tried to stick to the issues, not the pettiness.

Anyway. Objectivity around here is a dying art...so...

But I love our conversations Lightning! As for the second thing, I wouldn't exactly call grossly misrepresenting her positions on issues in the form of deceptive mailers in my state "taking the high road."

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

But I love our conversations Lightning! As for the second thing, I wouldn't exactly call grossly misrepresenting her positions on issues in the form of deceptive mailers in my state "taking the high road."

I love them too.

And deceptive mailers to a few hundred people are nothing compared to the accusations of incompetence, plagiarism, Islamic ties--not to mention 3AM scare tactics...basically whatever would stick that Hillary has launched against him. She has tried very, VERY hard to assassinate his character before the country. Can you say the same for him? Honestly?

Do you realize that not even Huckabee or Romney treated McCain (or eachother) this harshly? That's why they can come together now. Hillary and Obama cannot and neither will their supporters. It's called "bloodied".

 

[Marx]

I love them too.

And deceptive mailers to a few hundred people are nothing compared to the accusations of incompetence, plagiarism, Islamic ties--basically whatever would stick that Hillary has launched against him. She has tried very, VERY hard to assassinate his character before the country. Can you say the same for him? Honestly?

I don't see how you guys could even compare the two of them.

All Matt and I are trying to say is that he isn't the innocent "messiah" that some would like to believe. He pulls underhanded tactics just like she does. Has she thrown the "kitchen sink" at him? Maybe, but it could be alot worse. And it will get worse, assuming he gains the nomination, and McCain and RSM get ahold of him.

 

[Marx]

Do you realize that not even Huckabee or Romney treated McCain (or eachother) this harshly? That's why they can come together now. Hillary and Obama cannot and neither will their supporters. It's called "bloodied".

It may not have gotten this bad between them, but it did get fairly critical and harsh. Had the Republican race lasted as long as the Democratic one, I gurantee you that it would be very similiar in tone.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Had the Republican race lasted as long as the Democratic one, I gurantee you that it would be very similiar in tone.

Ah, but see the Republicans actually CARE about the wellbeing of its party--and are willing to put aside their own ambitions for its success in November. They are actually focused on WINNING the GE. In other words, they didn't WANT things to get this bad and distract from the main focus.

The same cannot be said on the Democratic side. We are dealing with folks who are suffering from a disease known as "entitlement."