The Dark Knight The Composite Christopher Nolan Interview Thread

[The Mobb]

You don't think Catwoman falls into the stereotype?

If someone created a female villain as twisted as the Joker or as complex as Two-Face, I'd be all for it. But comics are by and large written by men. And men tend to write women as sexy and alluring, not dangerous and threatening. I want a woman that isn't a sex object. Then I will a take her seriously as a villain.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Catwoman, when written well (as I would hope she would be in a future film) is equal parts intelligence, dangerousness, and sex appeal. A fine, well-rounded character.

 

[Crook]

You don't think Catwoman falls into the stereotype?

If someone created a female villain as twisted as the Joker or as complex as Two-Face, I'd be all for it. But comics are by and large written by men. And men tend to write women as sexy and alluring, not dangerous and threatening. I want a woman that isn't a sex object. Then I will a take her seriously as a villain.

Catwoman is a sexual character, but that's merely a small part of what she is. That's not all she is, was my point. Just take a look at BR to see the potential in her character. She complements Bruce's dark side very well, as she has her own.

Plus the whole "they're perfect for each other, but aren't meant to be in the end" plotline is intriguing in itself.

 

[The Guard]

I would love to see a serious version of Catwoman done, which is why I would have loved to have seen Selina Kyle as Bruce's love interest in all three movies.

 

[Crook]

Well I think Selina was already done seriously in BR. But I definitely wouldn't mind her cinematic return. For me, topping Pheiffer's performance is harder than topping Keaton's. So if she does ever return, it'd better be grand.

Nolan doesn't have much experience in writing female characters. If Rachel is any indication, I'm not sure I want him anywhere near Selina in the first place. I just doubt he can bring forth a captivating and broken character, that would be able to stand against Pheiffer and Burton's take.

 

[The Guard]

I love Catwoman in BATMAN RETURNS, but let's face it, she's a woman who falls out a window and becomes a completely different person. I think Catwoman can get even more serious. When I wrote my BATMAN: GENESIS script in 2004/2005, I wanted to develop her over three films as a love interest/friend/potential villain. She was going to represent what Gotham's nature does to people, and going to be a character with some deep-seeded ego and self-esteem issues along with a tragic past. She would mirror Bruce Wayne, and be someone who rose above a tragedy to make herself into something amazing. Someone who desperately wanted to do something great and bold, but was repressed by what society expected, or would allow. And then, as Bruce progressed with his mission, she would have become twisted into something she shouldn't have been, make some really bad choices for all the right reasons, and fall into villain territory, ending up one of Batman's most tragic enemies when all she really wanted was to be valued and loved/or feared by Gotham City, and Bruce Wayne in particular.

Ah well. Maybe in BATMAN: THE MUSICAL.

 

[Crook]

I love Catwoman in BATMAN RETURNS, but let's face it, she's a woman who falls out a window and becomes a completely different person.

Well I suppose it'd look corny if put in that way. But I thought the apartment scene (one of my fav. scenes btw) was a great transition from a meek secretary to an empowered woman. It wasn't just a random personality change. She had a mental breakdown and found an epiphany during the process.

I think Catwoman can get even more serious. When I wrote my BATMAN: GENESIS script in 2004/2005, I wanted to develop her over three films as a love/interest potential villain. She was going to be a character with some deep-seeded ego and self-esteem issues. Something who desperately wanted to do something great and bold, but was repressed by what society expected, or would allow. And then, as Bruce progressed with his mission, she would have become twisted into something she shouldn't have been, make some really bad choices for all the right reasons, and fall into villain territory, ending up one of Batman's most tragic enemies when all she really wanted was to be valued and loved/or feared by Gotham City, and Bruce Wayne in particular.

Interesting development. I must admit I'm not quite well versed into Catwoman, pre-costume. Is your Selina based on the comics or an original take of how she came to don the cat motif?

 

[The Guard]

There's a lot more to Catwoman than just meek to strong. That's the basics, and Burton nailed that, but there's a lot more than can be done with her.

My Selina is a combination of the various comic book origins for Catwoman (Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis) and what I personally think would cause a beautiful, intelligent, talented and successful person to adopt a costume and pursue a life of crime in Gotham City.

 

[Crook]

There's a lot more to Catwoman than just meek to strong. That's the basics, and Burton nailed that, but there's a lot more than can be done with her.

If she gets to be developed in more than one film, definitely. It'd be sad to see her as a one-shot once again.

My Selina is a combination of the various comic book origins for Catwoman (Pre-Crisis, Post-Crisis) and what I personally think would cause a beautiful, intelligent, talented and successful person to adopt a costume and pursue a life of crime in Gotham City.

Cool. Would love to read it if you have her entire arc all written out.

 

[The Guard]

Cool. Would love to read it if you have her entire arc all written out.

No such luck. Had a trilogy planned out, but it's basically the same thing Nolan and Goyer came up with, so I held off on it. Origin story with Falcone, second film with The Joker, third with The Joker and Two-Face. Selina Kyle/Catwoman played a role in all three stories.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I want more female characters period. All Begins had was Katie Holmes as Rachel...what a loss.

 

[samsnee]

Two things:

I agree that the last line in the film will probably be Dent saying "Half" when someone asks him "I thought you were dead?"

Second, when did Rhas Al Gul talk about escalation in BB? It was Gordon at the end. I assume Nolan just got mixed up in the interview.

 

[Gianakin_]

Well I think Selina was already done seriously in BR. But I definitely wouldn't mind her cinematic return. For me, topping Pheiffer's performance is harder than topping Keaton's. So if she does ever return, it'd better be grand.

Bingo.

 

[wikum]

What the fck does that mean? Does this mean it will be a recognizable character? Two-Face? Selina Kyle? The Riddler?

...Ra's al Ghul?

Curious.

at first i thought this had quite a big meaning. however, it could just be the joker...showing he's not dead.

 

[Nightwing1977]

I want more female characters period. All Begins had was Katie Holmes as Rachel...what a loss.

Soooo.....is Mrs. Wayne, the 2 women who travel with Bruce in his car, & 2 others hanging around the with the judge at Falcone's bar not enough?

 

[Jack Napier]

I can understand Nolan's hesitancy to commit to a third film. Making these films is such a HEAVY responsibility. Even making a mediocre film is a daunting task, but with fan anticipation and studio expectations, it's a stress-inducer, I'll tell you that.

I haven't posted on The Dark Knight board yet, but I'll I can say is that this and "Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull" will make for a very awesome 2008. Happy New Years, ya bastards!

 

[MAKIEVELLI]

Well I think Selina was already done seriously in BR. But I definitely wouldn't mind her cinematic return. For me, topping Pheiffer's performance is harder than topping Keaton's. So if she does ever return, it'd better be grand.

Nolan doesn't have much experience in writing female characters. If Rachel is any indication, I'm not sure I want him anywhere near Selina in the first place. I just doubt he can bring forth a captivating and broken character, that would be able to stand against Pheiffer and Burton's take.

While I think Bale's Bruce was better, Keaton's Bruce was very good and while I though Pheiffer was ok I don't think she was anywhere near what Keaton did with his role. I have many times heard people say Keaton was the definitive Batman but I've never heard Pfeiffer being the definitive Catwoman. She acted very little like her comic-counterpart, unless you find her attractive(which I don't and never have) the performance does very little for you. She struck me more as some crazy, psycho lady than the sleek and sexy Catwoman. Even though I hated Halle Berry's Catwoman, I personally prefer her over Burton's vision.

 

[Juha]

I have never understood how anyone could consider Keaton as the definitive Batman/Bruce after seeing Begins. Don't get me wrong. Keaton is awesome and I would love to see him doing a huge ass comeback in Hollywood. But Keaton's Batman/Bruce wasn't nearly as tormented and intensive as Bale's Batman/Bruce. Keaton was entertaining and funny but he never came off as this haunted avenger IMO. Of course you can blame the script for that b/c most of the time Keaton had absolutely nothing to work on.

But that doesn't change the fact that there never was any pain in Keaton's eyes whatsoever. And that inner pain is what really drives Bruce. But of course Keaton's work was in line with the overall tone of the Burton movies. Those movies were funny and off-beat and that was exactly what Keaton delivered.

 

[Gianakin_]

What you say is in no way a fact. I saw pain in Keaton's eyes. Much pan, much torment.
And I don't know your definition of "funny", but I'm certain it's different than mine.

 

[Snoo]

No offense intened to female heros/villians or those that love them out there...but I just feel that the movie would take on a more traditional comic book feel, rather than the gritty serious feel he's got going.

Just my opinion. Sorry if I offended anyone.

I personally took no offense, you explained what you meant. *nods*

You don't think Catwoman falls into the stereotype?

If someone created a female villain as twisted as the Joker or as complex as Two-Face, I'd be all for it. But comics are by and large written by men. And men tend to write women as sexy and alluring, not dangerous and threatening. I want a woman that isn't a sex object. Then I will a take her seriously as a villain.

Exactly. In comics the female villain may be threatening but she's still sexy and wearing revealing clothing and high heels, so it's "sexy danger" to the male opponent... Not DANGER, period. Hard to take a villain seriously when she's dressed like that. That's how I see it anyway.

I agree about twisted female villains, I'm itching to see one like that! Forget sexy and her gender for a second and just write her like the male characters. There you go. Same rules should apply here.

As an example, did anyone see the female "Miniature Killer" (great link about her) on CSI last (and this) season? She was the main villain and you could follow her story (and her killings) over several episodes (over the entire season, in fact). In the end the killer was revealed to be female and completely demented, scarred emotionally from childhood, with daddy issues, jealous of her sister who used to get all the attention, etc etc. She was a brown-haired girl in her 20's or early 30's (forgot the details) of no exceptional beauty but she was a master at brilliant miniatures and clever ways of killing her victims. It took the CSI team a long time to figure her out and she even almost killed one of the main characters. It was even a catalyst for her leaving the job a bit later. The experience scarred her.

The female villian seemed like a soulless, broken doll, hungry for attention. She used miniature photos of vintage porcelain dolls as her "signature" whenever she left one of the miniature dollrooms behind on the crime scene. Fantastic. The character was so well conceived. Whispering and murmuring to herself, her hair covering most of her face... Completely wacko but intriguing and fascinating at the same time. She was strangely "beautiful" in some scenes. In that scary, evil way. Grissom had to talk to her like a child because she was anti-social and had burried herself into her miniature work most of her life.

Why can't there be more female villains like that? I hope it's not just because they're not sexy, so of no interest to some male readers...

 

[Juha]

What you say is in no way a fact. I saw pain in Keaton's eyes. Much pan, much torment.
And I don't know your definition of "funny", but I'm certain it's different than mine.

I've seen Batman Returns maybe 20 times and IMO there is only one scene where Keaton looks like he's fighting with this unbearable burden that is suppose to drive Batman. I'm talking about the scene towards the end of the movie where Bruce tries to convince Selena that they are two of a kind and they should work things out together. I felt Bruce's pain in that scene and that was great acting by Keaton.

It's been a while since the last time I saw B89 but I can't remember it having any similar scenes that would've emphasized Bruce's inner conflict so touchingly. Maybe you and I just see these things differently.

And my definition of funny? IMO Batman Returns is very funny. Yes, it's also very dark and quite sad but it has many great comedic moments. And also B89 was often very darkly amusing mainly because of the Joker.

 

[Gianakin_]

That's fair enough, but don't say it's a fact that there was no pain in Keaton's eyes.
As for funny, there were naturally funny moments in both B89 and BR, but I personally don't perceive them as funny films.

 

[Anguissette1979]

I think that B89 and BR had the characteristic Burton subtle, dark humor. I honestly think of those two films more as "Burton" films than "Batman" films... while they are, in truth, both they just have such a Burton stamp on them that there's no way to ignore/forget that.

Don't get me wrong, I like Burton films, but it was almost so overtly Burton that they were distracting.

BF and B&R just moved into the realm of the silly... forget subtle, we had to be hit over the head with everything

 

[undyingsoul]

val kilmer is such an enigma

 

[Anguissette1979]

val kilmer is such an enigma

No... that's Jim Carrey