-You're making an assumption here that the line is said by TMITS. It sounds MUCH more like Chris Cooper than Michael Massee, so that's probably not likely to happen. We don't even know that TMITS has a role in this movie beyond a post-credits scene. So it's really not safe to assume that this plays into S6 being in TASM3. We don't know for sure who he is or what his role is.
No assumption! Look, the line of "The future" is in response to Harry asking "what is all this?". Seems pretty obvious that that is in response to TMITS opening the inner chamber doors to reveal the outer chambers with Ock's tentacles and Vulture's wings. That stuff is "the future". Norman is not showing Harry "the future" from his hospital bed. Also, if you listen to the voice that says "the future" you'll be able to tell it isn't Norman. So TMITS just makes logical sense! Also, how can you still think that the chamber of the future scene is post-credits? I've effectively proven that it's during the movie, before Harry tranforms into the Goblin!
- Dr. Kafka isn't dead. We don't even know what happens to him (or even her) in this movie. I believe a guy was cast as A Dr. Kafka. But there could be two if they want to use the female character. So it's entirely possible that Electro is referring to Kafka by saying "Doc." It could be any number of "doctor" characters. Maybe even a throwaway character.
Sorry, I meant Dr. Ratha. Yes, I've read that Dr. Kaftka is being played by Marton Csokas. Kaftka will undoubtedly have something to do with Ranvenscroft. Whether he will be the founder, director of the facility, a psycologist, or a combination, likely is beyond this discussion. And yes, in the comics, Dr. Kaftka helped patients including Electro, Vulture, Carnage and Doc Ock; that doesn't mean that he will be involved in Oscorp or the transformation of Electro or Harry in TASM2.
The point is that we know Harry will be shown "the future" by TMITS and that this will lead to Electro getting amped up and Harry being transformed. I think it's safe to say that Harry, who is just watching, is not the genius behind the equipment that helps make Electro more powerful. It's also likely that Kaftka is not the engineering genius that developed the wings, tentacles, glider, and equipment used to make Electro more powerful. This is not the job of a pschologist, but an Engineering genius at Oscorp. And in Ultimate Spiderman (where much of the Amazing series is being derived from) Doc Ock is an Engineer at Oscorp. It makes much more sense that TMITS is the Engineering genius working at Oscorp who helps Electro become more powerful.
- You're missing the point. Introductions are only the very first step in character development. It doesn't constitute a satisfying level of development for any given character. In the event of a major aspect (or A turning point) of a major character's role in a story, they should be fully developed. So if Norman is only introduced in this movie and then, in the next, he only shows up, fights Spider-man, and that's it, that's not a very satisfying example of character development. In this case, Rhino doesn't serve as a major character in the story. He's there for fun, so an introduction is satisfactory. The character hasn't reached a turning point or defining moment for his role yet, so there isn't a need for him to be fully developed. Electro, on the other hand, DOES reach a major part of his character's role in this film (one of them anyways). So he NEEDS to be fully developed. This is why we will get to know him so well in this film. Otherwise, he would be unsatisfying as a character. He could be flashy, but that would be it. Harry also reaches a turning point in this film. So he also needs that development. Not necessarily as a Goblin, but as himself. We need to understand as much about him as we can because he has a key role to play. Norman, on the other hand, needs less development in THIS film. While he very well may be behind EVERYTHING, he's not front and center. He's a presence, and an important one for the series, but he's not somebody who needs to be fully developed YET. Introduced and teased, certainly. But we don't need all of his motivations, personality, and other character traits yet. But, as I said earlier, we DO need to know them in a film where he has more of the spotlight (perhaps the next film going by Chris Cooper's words).
That's more than one step. More than an introduction. And I would call that development, yes. But development requires time and effort. If you have a character show up and in one scene he, or someone near him, starts shouting expository dialogue about him, that isn't satisfying. It's insulting. So, to do more than that, you need to devote time to that character. Which means that character either has a subplot (which requires time that REALLY adds up after a while) or that character needs to be tied in to the main plot. In the latter case, that's going to detract from the time spent with other characters that require development and reduces the possibility of having other subplots.
So you kind of agree with me that some villain characters need to be more developed than others. This will likely be the case with the Sinister Six villains. Some will be more developed than others. Some can be dealt with with minimal "development" while another, like Doc Ock, would need much more development. So if TASM2 we have time to develop two villains to the point of Electro and Harry, then in TASM3 we would have enough time to develop a couple of the Sinister Six villains that have only minimally, or have not been introduced. Villains like Harry and Rhino have already been developed to the point where we won't need to devote a lot more time.
So, let's say we have a Spider-man film following Gwen's death. If we make this into a Sinister Six film, the members of the Six all need development. They need their time. Their confrontations with Spider-man need time. You have six characters there that all require certain explanations, motivations, development, etc. But wait, this is also following up Gwen's death. We need to follow Peter around. We need to understand how he feels and he has to undergo some level of change in the story. Something needs to click with him. Maybe he learns to move on. So we're going to have to follow him through that part of the story. Let's say Mary Jane is introduced. Now we need to develop her and her relationship with Peter (whether it's a friendship or romance). And what about his relationship with Harry? Surely that's something that needs a follow up as well. Each element requires time at the expense of the others. So you run the HUGE risk of having one or more very unsatisfying aspects of the film by trying to cram too many things in. You can have a lot of major characters. But not when most of those major characters require development and when the other elements of the story also need time. This is why you need to develop the characters beforehand.
This is also why Webb is already showing us different characters AND setting up others. This is why we're seeing Vulture's wings and Doc Ock's tentacles now, instead of in TASM3. Again, it all depends on how they do it. Like mentioned above, Harry and Rhino are all set. If Ock is introduced in TASM2, like I believe he will be, then he will need less development. If there is enough time to fully develop Electro as the main villain, along with others, then there will be enough time to develop the Six.
I've touched on Rhino several times already. Even in this post. And development doesn't entail flashbacks and learning a character's entire life's story. Context is key. In the context of a story, what does it mean to be fully developed? It means we need to know everything about the character that is necessary to understanding their role in the story. A character study might necessitate knowing EVERYTHING about a character. But a standard story-structure only necessitates knowing how they tie-in to the themes and events of that story. Rhino plays a small role, if any, in the context of this particular part of the story. So we need to know little, if anything, about him. His purpose is entertainment. But in a Sinister Six film where he's a member, we need to know more about him. We need to understand the aspects of his character that are key to understanding how he relates to the story. That includes his motivation (not just for committing crime, but for deciding to team up), his personality, and establishing his relationships with other characters. Context defines what is, and isn't, fully developed.
Sounds like what you're looking for is their motivation. So for Rhino we know the motivation is revenge. For Harry it's family, changing the world, and possibly the effects of the serum. For Doc Ock it's going to be the science. From there it's all about who makes up the others. If it's Black Cat then it's for money. If it's Vulture then it could be for a variety of reasons, including power or freedom from something, like a sickness. Connors could be brought back as one of the Six by blackmail or promise of power or freedom. At least half of the Six, if not more, will already have the motivation shown in TASM2.
Again, motivation is only ONE part of character development. And having an introductory scene where they just state their motives then and there is not a satisfying way to go about it. Science, revenge, money, and family are potential motivations, yes. But they need to be expanded upon. They need to be shown more than stated and the way you do that is by following those characters around. Not by having them just state it.
But much has been shown. Rhino being embarrased and humiliated by Spiderman did this. Harry having that talk with his pops and realizing that they can change the world did this. If the guy down in the chamber of the future is Doc Ock, like I believe, then that whole scene will provide the expansion of his motivation. So no, I'm not saying they just state "hey, I'm here to get revenge", but that each characters motivation will have been shown and to a degree discussed.
Wrong. Saying there isn't enough time to deliver on the characters being more than just flashy people in suits who lack personalities is the same as saying there isn't enough time to follow Max, get to know him, watch him transform, see him change, understand his relationship with Spider-man and how that changes, follow Aleksei, get to know him, understand his relationship with Spider-man, understand his motivations for stealing from Oscorp, understand his relationship with Oscorp, follow Harry, get to know him, understand his relationship with Peter, understand his relationship with his father, understand his new role as head of Oscorp, understand how he views Spider-man, understand why he goes after Spider-man and Gwen, still cram all of the other non-villain characters and plot points in there, and somehow delivering a satisfying film. (Side note: This is easily one of the worst sentences I've ever typed)
So if we're going to be able to do all of this in TASM2, then why couldn't they flesh out the characters and situations in a similar timeframe in TASM3? Seems very possible to me.
An odd idea is not a bad idea. There are some downright DESPICABLE characters that you follow in A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones). But it works. And it works well. You don't root for Cersei Lannister. You might understand her. You might even feel bad for her a time or two. But you want her to fail. And that doesn't take away from her value as a character. Developing villains is the same as developing any other character type.
To a degree. Much more time needs to be developed to the reocurring hero than to the villains. Yes, we need to know a villains motivation. Sometimes we may need to feel for that villain and understand why they are doing what they are. At other times, and I expect this to be true for Rhino, the GA doesn't need to feel that way. He's a thug and we're happy he goes down. Sure, we get that he wants revenge because he was humiliated, but he deserved it so he got what was coming to him. I definitely agree that the main villain needs to be developed more. So in this case that will be Electro. We'll spend more time with him and understand the why of what he's doing. Sometimes that leads to the villain coming to his senses at the end, just like the Lizard, Sandman and Doc Ock (in spiderman 2); but sometimes the villain is just defeated (like in Spiderman 1). Electro could go either way, which will make this one interesting...
I understand what you meant. I was just being a *****e, which was, granted, uncalled for.
