The Dark Knight The Dark Knight: A Twisted Killing Joke?

[drillmaster]

A pal of mine pointed this out. Much of the movie is a really clever re-working of The Killing Joke, one in which The Joker wins. I mean, think about it. Instead of Gordon as his target, Harvey is. The Joker goes to great lengths and great pains to destroy Harvey's life, all to prove that if you introduce enough chaos and tragedy into someone's life, they'll crack. Rachel is killed, he's set on fire, his plan to capture The Joker and exonerate Batman in the public's eyes backfires...he has that One Bad Day. And his response? He absolutely lost it.

 

[TheBat812]

A pal of mine pointed this out. Much of the movie is a really clever re-working of The Killing Joke, one in which The Joker wins. I mean, think about it. Instead of Gordon as his target, Harvey is. The Joker goes to great lengths and great pains to destroy Harvey's life, all to prove that if you introduce enough chaos and tragedy into someone's life, they'll crack. Rachel is killed, he's set on fire, his plan to capture The Joker and exonerate Batman in the public's eyes backfires...he has that One Bad Day. And his response? He absolutely lost it.

There's a lot of elements of Killing Joke, The Man who Laughs and The Long halloween. Brilliantly done imo.

 

[Riddle_Me_This]

Part of Heath's preparation for playing the Joker was locking himself away in a hotel,and The Killing Joke was one of the items he used as inspiration for the character. So of course it is going to have elements of that book in it.

 

[Nathaniel Essex]

Part of Heath's preparation for playing the Joker was locking himself away in a hotel,and The Killing Joke was one of the items he used as inspiration for the character. So of course it is going to have elements of that book in it.

yeah, but if you read what he said about it was that he didn't enjoy The Killing Joke or Arkham Asylum and put them down half way through

 

[DACrowe]

Heath didn't enjoy Killing Joke? Really? Link, because I saw a lot of the Joker in that story in Nolan's movie. I could believe him not liking Arkham Asylum as it is very convoluted.

 

[Drizzle]

yeah, but if you read what he said about it was that he didn't enjoy The Killing Joke or Arkham Asylum and put them down half way through

I thought he only put down Arkham Asylum?

 

[The Guard]

I saw very little LONG HALLOWEEN and THE MAN WHO LAUGHS. There was a tiny bit of the themes of THE KILLING JOKE, but they were altered. And these are also the timeless Joker themes.

 

[MMoralN10Tion]

The entire bit in the end is also from the Killing Joke. His entire philosophy about madness is. Brilliant character. And yes, he won in the sense that he caused chaos and pushed Harvey, but he was also targeting Batman, and in that regard, he didn't win. And let's not forget the boats with the citizens adn crimminals who decided NO to blow each other up. Did you see his face when he realized that he lost?

 

[TheBat812]

I saw very little LONG HALLOWEEN and THE MAN WHO LAUGHS. There was a tiny bit of the themes of THE KILLING JOKE, but they were altered. And these are also the timeless Joker themes.

TLH (Harvey's arc is very similar, just different specifics).
Man Who Laughs (naming next victims and killing them anyways as well as much of the characterization of the Joker)
Killing Joke (multiple choice history (including one that was similar to the Joker's past in this story involving his wife), one bad day theme, trying to bring out the bad in everyone, but failing)

This is just from one viewing though, I'm sure there's many more things.

 

[MMoralN10Tion]

I saw very little LONG HALLOWEEN and THE MAN WHO LAUGHS. There was a tiny bit of the themes of THE KILLING JOKE, but they were altered. And these are also the timeless Joker themes.

Well, there were some elements of TLH, such as the "I'll show you hostile line" and the whole mob bit (money burning). TMWL, well, that was an introduction to the chaos that is the Joker, and TKJ was Joker's philosophy. There were tiny bits of influences here and there, but overall, an originial interpretation.

 

[DACrowe]

Here are influences I saw:

-The Long Halloween (the biggest influence)-Batman, Harvey and Gordon forming a team to bring down the mafia. Harvey being pushed mentally to dangerous points by doing this. One of them faking their death (Gordon instead of Harvey in this). Harvey becoming Twoo-Face in the third act and being an agent of revenge with the "split personality" really downplayed as opposed to a thug with schitzophrenia. Also the mafia's hate of the "freaks" and their slow reluctance to use them to fight Batman and Dent. The freaks are taking over and the mafia is trying to prevent it.

-Batman #1-Deadly clown Joker letting it be known on television (as opposed to radio) who he would target next and kill them in new creative ways. No origin.

-The Killing Joke-His philosophy that it takes one bad day for people to be lowered to his level and he tests it on one of Gotham's "untouchable." Except in TKJ it is Gordon who is targeted and Barbara Gordon is paralyzed and Gordon resists. In TDK Harvey Dent is tested and he gets bent after Rachel Dawes dies. Joker proves his point, but loses his goal of getting Batman to kill him like in both. Also, the multiple backstory origins characterization.

-The Man Who Laughs-Causing anarchy and prodding the mafia and the citizens of Gotham by just causing bad **** to happen. No real origin..


I also thought Arkham Asylum and Hush influenced the long grungy looking Joker a little bit.

 

[TheBat812]

Hold on, in my mind the Man Who Laughs is basically a remake of Batman #1. Am I wrong? Because I was referring to Batman #1.

 

[He-Man]

Altered for the movie but was still a cool scene.

 

[Psycho Clown]

I've noticed alot of inspirations like The Killing Joke (The Joker experimenting with people to prove that anyone can be corrupted) The Long Halloween (Two-Face and Sal Maroni dispute, also the look of Two-Face), And the way The Joker targets people is either based of his first two appearances, or Batman: The Man Who Laughs (For instance saying he's going to kill Reese when he's on T.V.)

 

[DACrowe]

bump.

 

[coleyhinson]

i like how they didnt make this Gordon like 90 years old... However, i would have been so down an oldman nude scene... like when Gordon is naked in TKJ

 

[Kevin Roegele]

Moving swiftly on, the Joker's ability and willingness to physically fight with Batman, his use of knives, and his use of disguises (especially a police officer) to get to his prey are all in Batman # 1 from 1940.

 

[jed.exodus.89]

i loved the speech that the joker gave 2 batman as he was hangin from the building at the end. does any1 have any quotes from that speech or know of any comics that it may refer 2?

 

[Hello Beautiful]

I definitely see a lot of it, but perhaps even more of The Man Who Laughs.

Gordon/police racing around to protect people, stake out situations, clown gangs, Bats/Joker conflict at the end - beating him with hammer and in TDK what appears to be a lead pipe.

 

[DACrowe]

Yeah I see a lot of Batman #1 in him. He was more sarcastic and kind of bored/sad with life. He seemed to have a death wish and him figuring out ways to kill Loeb, the judge and Dent and later challenging people to kill Mr. Reese all point (IMO) to that. As Kev pointed out when Joker in TDK shows up without make-up and the evil grin in a police uniform it is just like when he is in human make-up in Batman #1, even moreso than Batman'89 which copied the human colored make-up idea.

I see the city on the brink of self-destruction and the effect Joker has on them coming from The Man Who Laughs, but the concept of what Joker is doing in it does come from Batman #1. But the Joker's point to all his madness and what he's really trying to prove everyone is just like him and can be pushed to accepting his "reality." That sense of purpose to the purposeless comes from TKJ.

 

[Lauryn2000]

Altered for the movie but was still a cool scene.

Thumbs up---I just picked up the Killing Joke and read it.....

 

[Raiden]

i like how they didnt make this Gordon like 90 years old... However, i would have been so down an oldman nude scene... like when Gordon is naked in TKJ

Gordon naked? No thanks. But it's too bad that Barbara Gordon is so young in TDK, so she can't have the same storyline as she did in TKJ.

 

[juju100000]

Altered for the movie but was still a cool scene.

where can i read these comics online.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

What source has said that Heath didnt like TKJ?? Please someone post this cause Ive never heard such a thing.

 

[squeekness]

What's not to like in Killing Joke? I thought it was really well done and had a compelling story. It was easy to follow even for a person like me who hasn't read much Batman at all. I reallly liked it.