The Dark Knight The Dark Knight Fan Review Thread

How Do You Rate The Dark Knight?

  • 10 - The praise isn't a matter of hyperbole. Get your keister to the theater to see this NOW! :up:

  • 9

  • 8

  • 7

  • 6

  • 5 - We had to endure the boards crashing for this? :dry:

  • 4

  • 3

  • 2

  • 1 - They should have stopped while they were ahead with Batman Begins. :down


Results are only viewable after voting.
Understand this people and realize it....

NO movie is perfect!

Without a doubt though....TDK IS Nolans' masterpiece! :brucebat:
 
I don't think that it's possible to make a sequel but this movie was honestly the best movie I've ever seen. I mean, the acting, amazing. The plot, bangin'. And the Joker, he was the Joker. Heath Ledger should be called Heath Legend.
 
REVIEW:

With Batman Begins, his 2005 reboot of the Batman film franchise, hailed as bringing the Caped Crusader back to the screen better than ever, Christopher Nolan had the green light to proceed with the highly-anticipated sequel that came to be called The Dark Knight. For most fans, Nolan's return to Gotham City was worth the three year wait. Batman Begins returned Batman to respectability; The Dark Knight takes this capital and runs with it, crafting what is easily one of, if not the most ambitious and adult-oriented comic book superhero movies ever made.

Since defeating Ra's Al Ghul at the climax of Batman Begins, Batman (Christian Bale) is now an established figure in Gotham City. Criminals run and hide at the sight of the Batsignal, and once all-powerful mobsters are afraid to show their faces at night. Officially, he is still considered an outlaw by the Gotham authorities, but Lt. Jim Gordon (Gary Oldman) is working more and more closely with him, and the other cops largely turn a blind eye to his association with Batman. Gordon introduces Batman to a new ally, crusading new District Attorney Harvey Dent (Aaron Eckhart), who, aided and abetted by Batman and Gordon, launches a campaign to clean up Gotham, publicly going after the mob's money laundering operations, privately relying on Batman to bring in the "untouchable" criminals. Dent starts to make headway, so much so in fact that Bruce sees an opportunity emerging on the horizon to hang up the Batsuit, hand over the reins to someone who can achieve the same ends as himself without having to operate outside of the law or hide his face, and maybe still have a chance for a normal life with Rachel Dawes (Maggie Gyllenhaal), although she is now involved with Dent. But while Batman's presence has struck fear into the criminal underworld, he has also had effects he hadn't anticipated, not all of them positive. There are copycats who go out in makeshift Batsuits and try to take down criminals themselves, but without his skill or restraint. And as their hold over Gotham threatens to slip away, the mobs of Gotham, led by Sal Maroni (Eric Roberts), who has replaced Carmine Falcone (played by Tom Wilkinson in Begins) turn to a man who presents himself as their savior- a bizarre, twisted criminal mastermind with a slashed smile and clownish facepaint known only as The Joker (Heath Ledger). The Joker offers to eliminate Batman- for a price- but soon proves to have an agenda all his own. He's not really interested in helping the mob, or in their money, he just wants to spread as much chaos and mayhem as possible, which puts him inexorably on a collision course with Batman and those close to him.

Perhaps the most key thing that The Dark Knight does right- which was also probably the biggest reason for the success of Batman Begins- is that Nolan and his cast and crew take the material seriously, without a whiff of camp or condescension. Nolan has mentioned not only the obvious sources of the Batman comics, but crime epics like Heat as influences. While Batman Begins revolved around Bruce Wayne, The Dark Knight is working on a broader scope, including enough supporting characters and subplots to rival a Batman graphic novel. The movie includes any number of nods to various Batman comics, such as a rooftop meeting between Batman, Dent, and Gordon inspired by and even using one line of dialogue from The Long Halloween, and The Joker making television broadcasts announching his upcoming crimes a la The Man Who Laughs. Unlike many of Nolan's films, which have reputations for toying with chronology (possibly his best-known film, Memento, goes backwards from the end to the beginning, and The Prestige and even Batman Begins feature numerous episodic flasbacks and jumps backward and forwards in time), The Dark Knight is straightforward and linear, but that doesn't mean Nolan has abandoned his fondness for convoluted plotlines. Unsurprisingly, considering his brother and The Prestige screenwriter Jonathan Nolan co-wrote the script with him, The Dark Knight has a relentlessly twisty-turny plot with some new diabolical scheme hatched around every corner. It's not so labrynthine that most viewers should get confused, but it's not a movie where a trip to the restroom is advisable. And what might be more impressive than how completely seriously Nolan takes the material might be how far he is willing to go to defy superhero movie expectations. In everything from Superman to all three Spider-Mans to even Batman Begins, we're used to seeing damsels in distress flung from high places and snatched from certain doom at the last minute, the villain hatching some climactic evil scheme but the innocents being rescued, good cleanly triumping over evil, and all being well. That doesn't always happen here. At the time, much was made of Batman Begins taking Batman back to its darker, more serious roots, but there is darkness aplenty in the aptly-named The Dark Knight that goes well above and beyond anything in Begins. Batman Begins had few "silly" moments. The Dark Knight has none, and warrants its PG-13 rating. The Joker is a far more frightening villain than Scarecrow, and parents considering taking small children to see Knight should do so with the knowledge that a major character suffers the inevitable fate of having one side of his face burned off, and that the movie only maintains its PG-13 rating by employing the time-honored "camera cut away a split second before most gruesome moment" trick; even so, the implication of what happens when The Joker sticks his knife in a victim's mouth and snarls "let's put a smile on that face" is plenty clear enough.

Most of the cast and crew from Batman Begins returns here (the most prominent exception being Katie Holmes, who is replaced by Maggie Gyllenhaal). Christian Bale continues to be the perfect Bruce Wayne/Batman; he's great fun in the all-too-few moments where he plays up Bruce's vacuous playboy facade, and as his true self, his steely-eyed stoicism gives him an imposing presence that none of his predecessors in the role was able to match (it doesn't hurt anything that Bale is by far the most buff and believably physical of the Batman actors). The only relatively minor complaint about Bale's Batman portrayal is that his voice, which didn't bother me in Begins despite being a source of criticism at the time, seems about three times as gruff and growling here, occasionally to an unintentionally borderline comical extent. Obviously Bruce has to disguise his voice, and it mostly worked in the first film, but there are times here when it seems like he's forcing it too much. Of the other veterans, Gary Oldman has by far the most expanded role, and no silly "comic relief" moments (he doesn't drive the Tumbler, and he doesn't say lines like "I gotta get me one of those"). It's far from one of Oldman's showiest performances- in fact, he is exceptionally subdued, although he's allowed to show more life than in Begins- but he invests Gordon with a quiet, dutiful dignity and a sense of simple decency and integrity. In fact, it could be argued that Gordon is the character who by movie's end remains the most stalwartly morally uncompromised. Michael Caine has slightly less to do this time around, and Morgan Freeman has slightly more, but both veteran thespians are welcome in any capacity, and supply their effortless humor and dignity (Freeman gets one of the best lines in the movie). Begins left it a safe assumption that Lucius Fox knows Bruce is Batman; here it's overtly obvious, and we get a few more scenes of Fox supplying Wayne with nifty gadgets that would feel right at home in a James Bond movie (not for the first time, it occurs to me that Bale would probably make a pretty good Bond).

Of course, the most attention-grabbing newcomer is The Joker, played by the late Heath Ledger, whose accidental death of a prescription drug overdose dominated talk of the movie leading up to its release along with sky-high hype and talk of a posthumous Oscar nomination. The Joker is probably the best-known comic book villain ever created, and no fictional hero and villain are as inextricably linked as Batman and The Joker. They are flip sides of the coin, order vs. chaos, and fortunately the boundless praise heaped on Ledger's performance is not merely out of sympathy for his untimely death. Ledger is terrific, not only doing justice to the character from the comics, but providing one of the most memorable and endlessly watchable movie villains since we came face to face with Anthony Hopkins' indelible Hannibal Lecter in The Silence of the Lambs. Ledger is sometimes weirdly hilarious (of course he gets the most one-liners, and the sight of him in a female nurse's outfit prancing blissfully away as the hospital explodes in the background might be the kind of "thing you won't see anywhere else" that's almost worth the price of admission alone) but he's no goofy caricature. He's flippant and sardonic, but where Ledger succeeds where Jack Nicholson's much-overrated version failed is that he also makes The Joker genuinely frightening. He is at once a playful clown and a diabolical fiend. Nicholson's Joker overdid the former at the expense of the latter, inviting us to laugh along with and to some extent almost root for him. Ledger has moments where he makes us laugh, but his Joker is a vile, sadistic creature who acts without any clear reason and is utterly devoid of compunction. Ledger does for The Joker much the same as Bale did for Bruce/Batman; he brings the character to life from the comics with a faithulness and justice that no predecessor achieved. My own prediction is that Ledger will get nominated (partly because he's very good, partly because it will be seen as slighting a late actor if he isn't), but actually winning is a long shot.

The other main new character is Aaron Eckhart's Harvey Dent, a crusading idealistic politician of good intentions who any Batfan can tell you is fated to become the villainous, disfigured Two-Face. There's always something a little too slick and cocky about Eckhart (unsurprisingly, he seems most at home playing lawyers), and Harvey initially seems a little superficial, but as the movie goes on Eckhart brings across that trying to clean up Gotham means more to him than just lip service and popularity points, as well as the chinks in his armor. Eckhart plays Dent with growing intensity and conviction as he reaches his inevitable downward spiral, but since he's still playing, at least for the majority of the movie, a relatively normal, restrained individual, his fine performance exists unavoidably in the shadow of Ledger's. Maggie Gyllenhaal replaces Katie Holmes, who declined to return, in the role of Rachel Dawes, but while Gyllenhaal is a more credible Assistant DA, Rachel never completely escapes feeling like a superfluous character who doesn't give anyone who plays her much to grab onto. In relatively small roles, we have Eric Roberts doing his smug gangster bit as Maroni, Anthony Michael Hall popping up periodically as a reporter out for Batman scoops, Michael Jai White as another of Gotham's gang lords, Monique Curnen as a subordinate of Gordon's, and in a bit of ironic casting, Nestor Carbonell, who played Batman parody Batmanuel on the action sitcom The Tick, is Gotham's Mayor. Cillian Murphy has a fleeting cameo almost at the beginning of the movie; Murphy and/or Scarecrow fans who hoped he'd have something substantial to do in the second installment will be disappointed.

I'm not sure whether I like Batman Begins or The Dark Knight best, partly because the two films, despite done by the same cast, crew, and director, are markedly different. Begins was an origin story that devoted much of its time to developing the character of Bruce Wayne and detailing the creation of his Batman persona. Here, Batman is an established character, and the filmmakers were free to launch headfirst into the story. It opens with a bang- literally- in a fast-paced bank heist staged by The Joker that might remind some viewers of Heat (Heat cast member William Fichtner has a cameo as a tough guy bank manager in a probably deliberate node), and rarely pauses for breath from then on. Oddly, The Dark Knight feels both long (it clocks in at a hefty 2 1/2 hours) and rushed, especially early on. Scenes go by at a rapid-fire clip, few lasting more than a few minutes. The storyline, which juggles all kinds of subplots and side characters, is complex and ambitious. Some of it- including the imposter Batmen, a Wayne Enterprises accountant (Joshua Harto) who asks too many questions, and a tangent in Hong Kong- is a little extraneous, and could have been eliminated for more attention on more important plotlines. The plot bubbles and churns, and goes in unpredictable directions. While we know Harvey Dent is doomed to become Two-Face, the Nolans put their own spin on the particulars, and we're not certain how everything is going to wrap up. In Batman Begins Bruce spent the first half of the movie developing his Batman persona, and the second half uncovering and thwarting the expected “climactic evil master plan”. Here, it’s not that simple. The Dark Knight is very much to Nolan's Batman series as The Empire Strikes Back was to Star Wars. In Batman Begins and A New Hope, the fight was not over, but good had clearly come out on top. The Joker rampages through Gotham like a force of destruction, seemingly desiring nothing more than to spread chaos and mayhem for his own murky motives. Money holds no meaning for him except as a means to an end, and he’s not intimidated by a sound Batman thrashing. He doesn't have any master plan as such, just a relentless series of devious plots aimed at "upsetting the established order". But while The Joker doesn’t have any grand overall scheme like Ra’s Al Ghul, there is method to his madness. While Batman comes to loathe The Joker with a passion, The Joker does not hate Batman, nor does he want him dead. “I don’t want to kill you,” he tells the Caped Crusader at one point, “you complete me”. In fact, The Joker is intrigued and fascinated by Batman, seeing him as a kind of kindred spirit- “you’re just a freak…like me”- and themselves as two sides of the same coin, and in his own warped way, trying to “help” him see that his dedication to rules and law and order are ridiculous and pointless in an inherently insane world, and that the only answer to the world’s madness is not to fight against it, but to embrace it. “When the chips are down, these civilized people will eat each other”, he tells Batman, and to prove his point, he continually stages scenarios he calls “social experiments” aimed at forcing Gothamites, individually, in pairs, or in bunches into impossible moral dilemmas. By his very nature, The Joker is not the most three-dimensional of characters, but here, as in his best portrayals in the comics, he is a walking representation of a larger theme, a fiendish trickster-god of chaos and anarchy aimed at testing humanity's true nature when pushed to the brink. The Nolans obviously intended to make their story topical- The Joker is twice explicitly referred to as a "terrorist"- but just when it seems things can't spin any more out of control, they show a glimmer of faith in humanity. Law and order prevails, at least to a point, but the good guys pay terrible prices for their victories.

All this darkness and complexity doesn't mean The Dark Knight skimps on one basic ingredient for any summer blockbuster comic book superhero movie- action. The most ambitious and extended action sequence in the film is a car chase between a SWAT van, a semi hijacked by The Joker, and the Tumbler, and there are a number of sure-fire crowd-pleasing moments, including the debut of the Batpod, a suped-up motorcycle sporting cannons and monster tires. When it comes to the hand-to-hand fight scenes, Nolan shows improvement from Batman Begins, allowing us to actually see the fighting, although a darkly-lit and somewhat disorganized climactic fight through multiple levels of a building gets a little confusing. There are three sequences, one as the police scramble to protect three officials simultaneously targeted by The Joker, another as Bruce races to find The Joker before he can assassinate the Mayor, and a third, as Batman faces a race against time in which the outcome is almost as terrible if he loses as if he wins, that generate pulse-pounding suspense. But the standout sequence of the movie isn't any of the action bits, it's a confrontation between Batman and The Joker across a table in which The Joker lays out his worldview. Ledger is never better, he and Bale are explosive playing against each other, and The Joker's dialogue to Batman has some of the same depth and twisted intelligence of the conversations between Hannibal and Clarice in The Silence of the Lambs (which almost anyone will agree are the parts everyone remembers).

As relentlessly fast-paced and twisty-turny as it is, The Dark Knight's length eventually catches up with it. In the final twenty to thirty minutes, there's no deterioration in quality, but there's a sense that the movie is continuing on beyond a reasonable climax point, as though the filmmakers insisted on including material that could have been saved for a third installment. I would have preferred Two-Face, one of the most complex Batman villains and one of his more prominent adversaries after The Joker, was created in one movie and been a full-fledged villain in another, or at least had his fate left with more ambiguity than the seeming finality with which the Nolans end things. Nolan has said repeatedly that he concentrates only on making the best movie possible while making it, without thought of sequels or follow-ups, and the way he handles Two-Face bears this out. However, it's worth noting that half an hour of Two-Face in Nolan's hands is better and vastly more faithful and respectful to the character than a full movie's worth of the Joel Schumacher-Tommy Lee Jones bastardization in Batman Forever. In fact, as with Batman and The Joker, Two-Face is nailed so well that we wish we could have more of him.

Will Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale return for a third visit to Gotham City? Despite its apparent wrap up of Two-Face, The Dark Knight ends with enough ambiguity and loose ends to warrant a follow-up, but it's up in the air at this point. At this point, whether this cast and crew ever gives us another Batman film, Batfans owe them, and Christopher Nolan above all, a debt of gratitude for giving us two Batman films that have a right to be called by that name, and in The Dark Knight, one of the most ambitious and mature "comic book movies" ever made.

***1/2


http://www.angelfire.com/blog/jester_1/tdk.html
 
Alright. This seems to be the only way I can be at peace with myself, seeing as though I left the theater completely and utterly pissed off, and I couldn't believe I was. Ever since I left the movie my brain has been baffled and fried as to how I could not love 100 percent everything about this movie. Especially after I invested months of my time into anticipating it. Maybe with this somebody will understand my predicament. With that said......

I hate this movie.

Don't get me wrong. There are parts that I LOVE. But overall, I seriously dislike this film. As a Batman film anyway. It's insane because I can completely respect the brilliance of the story and how it was weaved together to form one big experience. I can also appreciate the excellent directing. And, of course, the acting. But overall, I still left the theater with the worst possible taste in my mouth.

Its extremely frustrating because I only had two major beefs. But as far as the fact that this was a BATMAN movie is concerned, they were gigantic, IMO.

1. The Joker.

When it was first alluded to that the Joker would be featured in the next bat flick, I thought, "finally, for once we will get to see a comic book character portrayed EXACTLY like in the comics. And it will especially be a dream come true because it's my favorite villain of all time. But I thought that was just too good to be true. And damn if the Nolan's didn't prove me right. I hate, no, absolutely loathe the way the Joker looked. I thought, seeing as how everyone was praising Heath as the second coming of Christ, that his performance would distract me from how ****ty he looked. But it didn't. In fact, the opposite occurred. The way he looked actually took away from his performance in my mind. Heath Ledger dropped just about the scariest interpretation of any literary character that has ever been adapted to film. He was so perfect it was mortifying. His character was so spot on, he left me sick to my stomach when I left the theater. But there were times where his makeup was so ****ed up, he was damn near regular looking. And that is just not the Joker. Every time Heath said something, or did something else brilliant, all I could think about was how much I hated Christopher Nolan for his realism ********. He held it back from being an exact interpretation. It's racking my brain just typing this, so I'll come back later.
 
Friend. Ally. Gotham. Same difference.
You dont know the difference between friend and ally? Friend is someone you have personal feelings of affection for. Ally is someone with whom you share the common goal. You said explicitly that Batman "lied" for Harvey because he was a "friend" basically that his actions were motivated by a some emotional connection. WRONG. He sacrificed for Harvey because they share a common goal of inspiring the people of city. Friend. Ally. T o t a l l y different. And to be clear as previously proven and conceded by you... Dent and Batman and Bruce are NOT friends. Closer to rivals who are forced to work with each other. SO in one quote you're wrong twice. Let's be clear about that. They're not friends AND friend/ally are separate words with separate meanings. Wrongx2. And what is with the "Gotham" randomly in that sentence lmao.

No. Where in God's name did I say "everyone"?
In the sentence "blah blah blah ... look for the good in everyone"

Maybe you need to "relook" the mythos.
Okay hold on. I never considered that. Let me "'relook' the mythos" real quick. [Jeopardy music...] I'm back! OMGZ your write. Batman iz nise lik My Little Pony. I thought Batman was a badass but i wuz rong.

Batman is not the type of person to go "Well, someobody screwed up royally and turned evil, but I'm going to lie to Gotham to bail out their image". No. The man hates criminals. He may well feel sorry for Dent, or hate what happened to Dent, but the moment Dent turns into Two-Face, he becomes Batman's enemy. Batman doesn't "cover" for his enemies, and his reason for doing so in TDK is absurdly illogical.
but but but but just above you sed Batman was My Little Pony. You just sed Batman iz censitive.

Just typing out "illogical' doesn't make it so. The movie makes perfect sense. You simply have things backwards. Mostly logic and comprehension is lacking. You think, "The moment Dent turns into Two-Face, he becomes Batman's enemy" RONGGGGG. The moment Dent turns into Two-Face he's in Batman's arms, on fire and unconscious with pain. He hasn't committed any crimes, why the hell is he "Batman's enemy"? Is your Batman also psychic? Batman can see the future and knows Dent is twisted? Cmon kid you're better than this. THINK. What you mean is "the moment Dent turns into Two-Face, Batman becomes HIS enemy." Again you're using some of the right words but the logic just isnt' there.

Then "relook" the mythos.
I TOLE you i AM. dont pressure me.

If you can explain how me thinking Batman shouldn't take the blame for the evil acts of others indicates that I missed the point of two movies, I will give you a dollar. If you can explain to me how Batman lying to Gotham about their now-deceased symbol of hope actually makes things BETTER for Gotham, I will give you a dollar.
Seeing as how I already posted this in a manner a 7 year old would comprehend I demand you give me FOUR [(1+1)x2] dollars to explain it again

And LYING to them about the way things are is going to accomplish that? How, upon Dent's death, is telling the city Dent was a good man till the end going to make the city rise up any more than they already did?

So he's going to LIE to recreate one? Please. If he's smart, HE would become the symbol Gotham needs to rally around.
OMG HE LIED. You seem to have a strange mental block when it comes to socially accepted behavior and Batman. You think dropping a man from a building so he lands violently and shatters both his ankles is okay. Beating a man viciously and putting him in the hospital... that sounds alright. Kidnapping without injunction or warrant... no problem. Violating multiple international laws, borders and sovereignty... SOUNDS TASTY.

So basically of a litany of potential crimes, sins, and socially unaccepted behavior... ranging from physical assault on an individual allll the way to legal matters of international incident... basically anything one can think of that is physically and legally wrong... all that seems kosher. But a white lie OH NO THAT's IMMORAL. SO UNREALISTIC. Seriously you sound like a kid being raised in a war zone with rape and murder all around you and you sit at home thinking the worst thing in the entire world is disobeying your parents. Why do you have such an anal hangup on the possibility of Batman lying? It's seriously a 7 year old mentality where someone getting beat up is exciting action but lying (like to mom) is a huge sin. Have you ever even seen a guy get slammed onto concrete his nose broken with blood everywhere? It's much worse than a white lie. And batman does brutal things you'd puke if you saw in real life. Get over the idea that the worst thing in the movie is not telling the full truth or you'll never be able to fully enjoy the cinematic experience of this awesome movie

What do they represent? 500 criminals that are going to be locked up and off the streets?
hope for gotham.

That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Batman lies to Gotham City to inspire them? Inspire them how, via a false symbol who is now pretty much useless since he's dead/evil? This is the problem with the vagueness of Nolan's theme work. What concrete change in Gotham will people believing Dent was a good man accomplish in the future?
Wow. What a great, great reason to take the blame for someone else.
actually you're right. that bit of logic convinced me. batman would never lie, my mother told me only bad men lie. and I KNOW batman is not a bad man (cuz I was scared and my mom told me not to be scared he's not a bad man)

Batman is not a bad man. And only bad men lie. LOGIC ergo dictates that Batman would never lie. This movie is bogus. I am smart

You argue like a seven year old. It's hilarious
I'm doing my best

How is LYING about what's actually going on in Gotham better for Gotham? Since when did using lies to cover **** up become the best approach for a city?
okay to sum up. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE. LIE.

ladies and gentlemen that concludes the LOGIC part of my post.

Just reread my post dude, rather than throwing a fit and posting random crap. It's all stated explicitly
 
Another question:

Where did Gordon come from when Batman lay un-conscience after crashing the bat-pod into the truck to avoid hitting Joker?

Was Gordon the swat truck driver? I have to see it again, because i don't think they showed the drivers face at all. It was the swat guy beside him that had all the lines like "Is that a bazooka?!", and was the cameras focus....
 
well no, Maroni said something along the lines of "the Joker has no rules, we know you do". and then either he or Joker or both say the only way to stop the Joker is to break his one rule.

Maroni only knows about Batman's rule because the Joker has told them. probably to make them fear him more than they fear Batman

remember that at the beginning of this movie people really don't know anything about batman other than he's a vigilante. that includes the mob and the joker. they have bits and pieces of probably contradictory information. someone says he's 10 feet tall, some say he's a mutant bat, some say there's more than 1 of him or that he's everywhere. etc etc. the idea of any code batman has or even if he has guns etc are probably contradictory. all they really know is that they're scared ****less of him.

Jokers first encounters with the Batman are all about PROBING, can he be corrupted. what are his motivations? what are his limits? when the joker demands to know who the batman is IRL that is his primary motivation.. to know his identity is to know how to manipulate him and destroy him

For example when he throws Rachel from the window... Joker got valuable information from that. Sure it would be amusing to kill Dent's woman but that was secondary. Sure he would use that as an opportunity to escape but he could have escaped even if they put him in jail. The important thing... is to KNOW... Batman would PROBABLY save her but who knows. What would be the nuances to savor??? Would batman hesitate to sacrifice himself. Would he let her go in order to arrest the joker. Would a DYNAMIC DUO no one knows about emerge to save her? Would he have some gadget that somehow saves her or immobilizes the joker?

So he gets the piece of information... Batman IS selfless. He would rather save a life than take one or get vengeance on the joker. Also joker gets a hint that the girl means more to batman than normal. Okay put that away, that will be usefull. Now to use this info and set up a bigger test

The scene on the street after the tractor flip. Joker stands in the middle of the street daring Batman to run him over. Sure he has a death wish, and yeah even if he gets run over he PROBABLY wont die. But he needs to test the Batman... what are his limits? What he sees is that Batman ABHORS avoidable violence.. Batman would rather wreck his vehicle and get himself hurt rather than run over an ENEMY in the street. At that point it gets interesting... Joker is no longer interested in who batman is... Batman is the more interesting character... he also has enough information to start his plan and start "working on" the Batman psychologically (as seen in Joker's mastery in the interrogation scene)

Joker did all that to understand Batman... normal mobsters... they dont have the brainpower, guts, or insight to figure all that out. the idea that joker realizes batman's one rule is clearly from that specific test on the street when batman wrecked himself rather than run joker over
 
wait wait wait....


...


isn't LYING what batman does?

i mean, he wears a mask?

the ending was GREAT, and it gave him more power over the criminals.

hmm...
 
Alright. This seems to be the only way I can be at peace with myself, seeing as though I left the theater completely and utterly pissed off, and I couldn't believe I was. Ever since I left the movie my brain has been baffled and fried as to how I could not love 100 percent everything about this movie. Especially after I invested months of my time into anticipating it. Maybe with this somebody will understand my predicament. With that said......

I hate this movie.

Don't get me wrong. There are parts that I LOVE. But overall, I seriously dislike this film. As a Batman film anyway. It's insane because I can completely respect the brilliance of the story and how it was weaved together to form one big experience. I can also appreciate the excellent directing. And, of course, the acting. But overall, I still left the theater with the worst possible taste in my mouth.

Its extremely frustrating because I only had two major beefs. But as far as the fact that this was a BATMAN movie is concerned, they were gigantic, IMO.

1. The Joker.

When it was first alluded to that the Joker would be featured in the next bat flick, I thought, "finally, for once we will get to see a comic book character portrayed EXACTLY like in the comics. And it will especially be a dream come true because it's my favorite villain of all time. But I thought that was just too good to be true. And damn if the Nolan's didn't prove me right. I hate, no, absolutely loathe the way the Joker looked. I thought, seeing as how everyone was praising Heath as the second coming of Christ, that his performance would distract me from how ****ty he looked. But it didn't. In fact, the opposite occurred. The way he looked actually took away from his performance in my mind. Heath Ledger dropped just about the scariest interpretation of any literary character that has ever been adapted to film. He was so perfect it was mortifying. His character was so spot on, he left me sick to my stomach when I left the theater. But there were times where his makeup was so ****ed up, he was damn near regular looking. And that is just not the Joker. Every time Heath said something, or did something else brilliant, all I could think about was how much I hated Christopher Nolan for his realism ********. He held it back from being an exact interpretation. It's racking my brain just typing this, so I'll come back later.

You spent months anticipating this movie, which probably means watching all the trailers, watching all the tv spots, looking at pictures of the Joker with his make up in different stages and you still haven't gotten yourself used to the idea that the Joker isn't Permawhite? It sure sounds like you were surprised that he wasn't. Please don't tell me that you were hoping all these months that the Nolans would have busted out a plot twist at the end that the Joker indeed was permawhite.

Seriously, what's your main concern? You sound like you love the characterization of the Joker. In your own words, it was perfect. So what's the problem? I understand if you hate that he's not permawhite. That's your opinion but to let it be one of two reasons you hate this movie when you feel that the Nolans got everything else right about the character. Wow. It sounds like his appearence was more important to you than how the character was written and performed. And that's just sad, IMO.
 
Batman knew, after Dent's death, that if Dent was found to be responsible for the death of all the Mobsters, then the citizens of Gotham City would have lost all faith in their system. Having taken the fall for it, Bruce Wayne had done a much more heroic thing than just saving lives. He kept Gotham's morale toward hope... even if it meant they had to hate him for it. That was the entire theme of the movie, and Batman/Bruce Wayne's entire arc. He learned to become a hero.

It just wasn't the way many people we're expecting it to happen.
 
I have seen it today during the press-screening (I won two tickets), and I couldn't say anything after the end, but THAT'S MASTERWORK!

Yes, indeed, there is so much in this movie, that you will lose you mind. And although it's about Batman, the film destroys all restriction of superhero genre and combines detective thriller, drama, action and crime drama. It's today's Hamlet, and there won't be such movie for decades, and I don't even mention just years.

The story had everything in itself what a real movie should have. It has unexpected twists and turns (yeah I've read all spoilers, but it still looks great throughout the whole film), great characters of all kinds, strong drama, objective opinion, tragedy, no limitations, enough realism to consider it's an thriller, and no happy ending. Nolan is a genius. He reveals everybody's true faces. With the use of Joker, he not only shows Batman as both hero and the enemy, but also touches Dent, Gordon, and all people of Gotham. He doesn't stop until he reaches the point, when you really lose any hope for trust. And whereas many other superhero flicks such as Spider-man, Superman, and even Iron Man, use the same formula, because they don't want to risk, The Dark Knight breaks any limitations and raise the rank of quality, therefore contributing in the genre. Before the film, I have re-watched Batman Begins, and to honestly admit, The Dark Knight is very different from it. It has different atmosphere, different storytelling, and different take of actions chosen by the main characters. It's even the first superhero film, in which girlfriend [BLACKOUT]dies[/BLACKOUT]. There are many different storylines, and some opeople may think that the whole film is a poor tangled web of events, but in my opinion they just didn't pay attention to every detail. I even think it had four acts, because of so complex, but at the same time amazing plot. And the end tells so much truth, that you don't even want to believe it. Everyone can become a villain, even the ones, who are viewed as idols of the top, have their own demons. Everyone, including citizens of Gotham. They don't need Batman, but they will. Without Dent, there is nobody else, who is able to continue the war, which is unlikely to ever end, just liek the endless fight between Batman and Joker. And if not Joker, then someone else, because the world is rich of such psychs. There is no doubt they film leaves several important messages, you can find them in dialogues, actions, and relationships between characters. And the funny thing was that, although I was very concerned about possible plot holes, I didn't notice them.

Now the cast. Simple, it's perfect. I loved everybody, but there is one, who achieved something incredible, and he is Heath Ledger, who won't realize that his last role could give him the Oscar Award (but I still hope academy will give it to, at least, his family).He didn't portray another vaillain, psych, terrorist, or killer. No, there is much more behind him, and it is his power of creating chaos. People will remember his lines and scenes with him forever, because they are falwless. Nolans and Goyer added to his character everything what I desired to see in the Joker. He is just like Batman, as he uses the same methods, the same personality, the same tricks, but he has a very different purpose, which is closely related to Batman's. As long as there is Batman, there will be Joker. No Batman, no Joker. But unfortunately, we will never see such performance any more. The rest of cast did a great job, and there is no sense in describing each of them. Bale's acting was excellent as it always is, and I had no problems with his voice, because I got used to it. But Eckhart, just like Ledger, stole all showe in the final sequence. He didn't everything right, as he showed how Dent was the real hope of Gotham, how he fell, and how he became someone he never wanted to be. And, back in 2007, when most of fans weren't positive about Maggie Gyllenhaal's look (and I was one of those, who actually liked her), I think they should watch the movie, because not only her acting was good, but also her appearance. I felt really sorry for her after [BLACKOUT]the death[/BLACKOUT].

And, a few words about technical aspects of the movie. I though the best facet was cinematography, which this time must win the award. It only mad ethe whole movie look more epic. Sadly, the same can't be said about the editing, which was the worst part. I had no problems with other takes Nolan used in the final result, and I doubt it created plot holes. But I thought it could be way better than what we got, especially with such rich material. Another advantage of The Dark Knight was a smart use of vissual effects. There were more shots with CGI than in Batman Begins, but at the same time everything looked natural and they improved action in the movie. For instance, such scenes as helicopter's crush, bat pod (which had a terrific design) and hospital explosion, just blew me away. In Batman Begins I was pleased with the music, but I wanted it to have mor einvolvement in the story that it had. The Dark Knight changed it for me. And, by the way, the make-up was well done!

But the real frame deserves the creator of the movie, Christopher Nolan, which surprises me with his every new film. Seriously, there wasn't any of his works I didn't like. I would really love to see more such directors as him to make films in Hollywood.

Overall, my rate is 10 out of 10. It's a fifth film to get this score from me and it has a fourth place in my Top 20.

P.S. Also they provided us with ear-phones, I didn't take them, because I wanted to hear true voices of actors.
 
1. The Joker.

When it was first alluded to that the Joker would be featured in the next bat flick, I thought, "finally, for once we will get to see a comic book character portrayed EXACTLY like in the comics. And it will especially be a dream come true because it's my favorite villain of all time. But I thought that was just too good to be true. And damn if the Nolan's didn't prove me right. I hate, no, absolutely loathe the way the Joker looked. I thought, seeing as how everyone was praising Heath as the second coming of Christ, that his performance would distract me from how ****ty he looked. But it didn't. In fact, the opposite occurred. The way he looked actually took away from his performance in my mind. Heath Ledger dropped just about the scariest interpretation of any literary character that has ever been adapted to film. He was so perfect it was mortifying. His character was so spot on, he left me sick to my stomach when I left the theater. But there were times where his makeup was so ****ed up, he was damn near regular looking. And that is just not the Joker. Every time Heath said something, or did something else brilliant, all I could think about was how much I hated Christopher Nolan for his realism ********. He held it back from being an exact interpretation. It's racking my brain just typing this, so I'll come back later.

You hate the movie because the Joker is not full of permawhite?

Now, that is just a lame excuse. :whatever:
 
I just came back from seeing the movie. Man, oh man, I am still quivering with excitement from the experience. It was absolutely AMAZING. Brilliant. Fantastic. Incredible. I cannot shower enough praise on this movie.

Heath Ledger went above and beyond my expectations. I knew he was going to be awesome, but I never expected him to be as amazing as he was. He was the Joker. It's so easy to believe he spent a month in a hotel room with a stack of Joker comics, perfecting his voice, his posture, his general mannerisms etc.

I'll give a more detailed review later on. I'm a little tired and hungry, and I'm still geeking out over this movie. Everyone was terrific in it. The plot was fantastic. The action was superb.

10/10 all the way!
 
Glad to hear you enjoyed the movie. :up: What did you think of Two-Face?

Two Face was terrific. He was the logical climax to Harvey's story and it played out really well. There was a gasp from my audience when his scarred side was revealed. Truly gruesome. And I'm so glad the coin was used as often as it was.

I actually jumped a little when he shouted "SAY IT" to Gordon in the hospital.
 
Two Face was terrific. He was the logical climax to Harvey's story and it played out really well. There was a gasp from my audience when his scarred side was revealed. Truly gruesome. And I'm so glad the coin was used as often as it was.

I actually jumped a little when he shouted "SAY IT" to Gordon in the hospital.
That was one of my favorite scenes with him. Ekchart delievered a very strong performence. I don't buy Dent's "death", since Ekchart's signed for another one, and they've already established This Batman's not a killer.
 
I just came back from seeing the movie. Man, oh man, I am still quivering with excitement from the experience. It was absolutely AMAZING. Brilliant. Fantastic. Incredible. I cannot shower enough praise on this movie.

Heath Ledger went above and beyond my expectations. I knew he was going to be awesome, but I never expected him to be as amazing as he was. He was the Joker. It's so easy to believe he spent a month in a hotel room with a stack of Joker comics, perfecting his voice, his posture, his general mannerisms etc.

I'll give a more detailed review later on. I'm a little tired and hungry, and I'm still geeking out over this movie. Everyone was terrific in it. The plot was fantastic. The action was superb.

10/10 all the way!

I knew you'd love it, Doc. Very glad you got those early tickets!

Of course, my opinion is the same as yours when it comes to the Joker. I saw one poster here was complaining because Joker wasn't permawhite. In all honesty, I didn't mind at all. Just using makeup fits a lot better in Nolan's interpretation...and for me, it made the character all the more terrifying...because it added a whole new level of horror to the character. It made it so any one of your neighbors could by a cheap makeup kit, put some on, and become a psycho. That's an incredibly chilling thought!
 
That was one of my favorite scenes with him. Ekchart delievered a very strong performence. I don't buy Dent's "death", since Ekchart's signed for another one, and they've already established This Batman's not a killer.

Look a couple pages back in the Fate of Two-Face thread. The script is posted, and proves it.
 
Even the first few times they teased showing us Harvey's scarred half you could tell the crowd was eager for something, that was cool, then the big reveal seemed to gross people out.
 
I have been waiting for this movie for three years. Batman Begins absolutely blew me away when I saw it and I have been hanging on every scrap of information about TDK from its inception to its completion. It was by far my most anticipated movie of all time. Well, I finally saw it this morning at a press screening in the UK... and my reaction surprised me completely.

I... had almost no opinion. No reaction. I don't know how I felt about this movie - I can't say that I hated or loved it. Nor can I say I didn't hate it or didn't love it. I was certainly not elated. Nor was I in any sense disappointed. It just... was.

I'm definitely going to see it again - hopefully after some time allowing it to sink in I will be able to realise how I felt about it. But right now, it's so weird - I have no idea. Anybody else feel like this, or am I just a freak?
 
I have been waiting for this movie for three years. Batman Begins absolutely blew me away when I saw it and I have been hanging on every scrap of information about TDK from its inception to its completion. It was by far my most anticipated movie of all time. Well, I finally saw it this morning at a press screening in the UK... and my reaction surprised me completely.

I... had almost no opinion. No reaction. I don't know how I felt about this movie - I can't say that I hated or loved it. Nor can I say I didn't hate it or didn't love it. I was certainly not elated. Nor was I in any sense disappointed. It just... was.

I'm definitely going to see it again - hopefully after some time allowing it to sink in I will be able to realise how I felt about it. But right now, it's so weird - I have no idea. Anybody else feel like this, or am I just a freak?
Well, that has happened to me before with other films. Definitely watch it again. Then, just like you said, let it sink in.
 
You spent months anticipating this movie, which probably means watching all the trailers, watching all the tv spots, looking at pictures of the Joker with his make up in different stages and you still haven't gotten yourself used to the idea that the Joker isn't Permawhite? It sure sounds like you were surprised that he wasn't. Please don't tell me that you were hoping all these months that the Nolans would have busted out a plot twist at the end that the Joker indeed was permawhite.

Seriously, what's your main concern? You sound like you love the characterization of the Joker. In your own words, it was perfect. So what's the problem? I understand if you hate that he's not permawhite. That's your opinion but to let it be one of two reasons you hate this movie when you feel that the Nolans got everything else right about the character. Wow. It sounds like his appearence was more important to you than how the character was written and performed. And that's just sad, IMO.

Yeah. I did. And what's really sad is peoples unconditional blind love for everything Nolan. Supposedly the Joker was putting on makeup to showcase how incredibly insane he is. If that's the case, at least appeal to me enough to have him paint his whole body white, and at least have his hair green. They could have easily done that. BUt they didn't, because they wanted to make sure people understood that this was "their vision". They had to show flesh tone because they had to make sure people knew. And that is a slap in the face. There were points in the story where he looked so ridiculous it became like is he supposed to be scary or not? If batman doesn't have his ears, or his cape, but everything else about him is in tact, especially his character, guess what, he still ain't Batman. People keep saying this is the best Joker ever, and he was so perfect. No. His character was perfect, but his look was ********. Nolan decided that the Joker from the comics was ridiculous and improbable. Then he took it a step further and decided that everyone else was gonna like it as well. There had to have been a moment where someone was like, "well gee, don't you think your Joker might piss people off a little". So he decided that even if it did, he didn't care. He didn't care that he was differentiating one of the most important parts of the character. And I'll be damned, people went along with it. There's things I can move past. This **** just really pisses me off. And no one on this earth can justify why I'm wrong in this way of thinking. I appreciate what we got here in TDK. But theres **** like this and my other problem that piss me off to the point where it's hard to fully support the movie like I wanted to. And to the other guy - yes, his looks are a HUGE ****in deal! I just don't understand why they couldn't make it at least LOOK like in the ****in comic.

My other main reason, and this might just be me (strangely enough because I usually have a pretty good threshold for stuff like this.), but this movie was sooooooooooo freakin depressing when it didn't have to be. I can acknowledge that it's dope how they wrote harvey, but I came out extremely depressed after watching his portrayal in the flick because it contrasted what I expected. I expected the semi *******, extremely overzealous Dent from the comics. When reading that story (talking bout TLH) you looked forward to him becoming Two Face because you knew that once it happened the **** would hit the fan and all his troubles; personal demons would be justified through his drive for revenge afterwords. And when he got his vengeance and took control over his anger and directed it outwards, he became a true villain. One you could still cheer for, and sympathize with, but mostly because his true form was finally upon him. This harvey though, he had everything going for him. He had a public image. He had a wife. He had hero status thrown upon him by Batman himself. You came to really care about Harvey, and be really apprehensive about him becoming Two Face. And when he finally did, it became more tragic because he was never really the Two Face from the comics. He looked like Two Face, but he was still Harvey. That guy attacking Jim Gordon's family wasn't Two Face, it was Harvey. And that was just sickeningly depressing. You felt for him like no one else in the movie. That angle depressed me just about as much as Heath frightened me. Add that to the fact that he looked ABSOLUTELY OUTSTANDING as Two Face, and the ending becomes all the more frustrating. How could you do that to Harvey? So you can go against the grain and have a villain win for once in theory? You wasted a character (my third favorite bat villain) for nothing. As someone pointed out earlier, they could just as easily blamed those killings on the Joker. Batman didn't have to be the villain in the end. And the fact that he was, given what they could have done, was stupid as hell to me. This also makes it really hard on future directors. Everyone keeps saying how this movie can't be topped. Well your right. Since Two Face is dead, there is no way in hell that you can follow this story up. The third film could have been just as good, but only if Two Face was the villain. It's just the logical thing to have happen. So they killed Ra's and Two Face and expect future filmmakers to be able to top this movie while remaining in the continuity set by this franchise? Of course they won't. But back to the depression angle. It hit me after the movie that I was actually feeling bad for Loeb. LOEB, a character who, in the comics was a corrupt piece of ****. It didn't have to be that way. Others like him didn't have to be sympathetic. It was just too much for me. Call me a ***** but that's just me. It just ended up feeling too real. That's my problem I guess. It was just TOO real for me. I could barely handle it. Which too his credit, is probably what Nolan was going for.

You don't unnecessarily have to like something to respect it. I loathe Lebron James, but I can easily recognize his god given ability to play basketball. It's just the **** he does in between that makes me hate him. Such is the case with the Nolan co. with me.

There are parts of Batman Forever that I LOVE. But overall, I still hate the movie. That's how Nolan's universe appeals to me. He pissed away my three favorite Bat villains. He made Ra's white, then killed it on top of that. I hated it, but I tried to live with it. He made Joker a guy who puts on clown makeup to scare people. I tried to live with it. But then you kill Two Face? When you're supposed to have learned from past mistakes you still killed TWO FACE? That's the last straw. I was looking forward to having Batman go James Bond on us and have movie after movie after movie. But Nolan has made it very hard for other directors to follow him, by taking away crucial aspects of the Bat universe. In the end I can say this, and hopefully, after all my ranting, people will understand where I'm coming from.

This was a brilliantly acted and directed film. This was a great film in Hollywood cinema terms. But, as an adamant fan of the comics, it just didn't do what I thought it was going to to for me. In fact, it differed so much so many times that It really pissed me off. I can write a whole other review from a positive movie fan's perspective. But as a follower of the comics, I'm upset at these movies and the ones who developed them. I'm not knocking anyone who loves this movie. But don't act like everything about this thing was the definitive batman experience, because it was not.


*breathes*
 
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