The Death of Batman (?!?!?)

[Stealth_Prime]

I got into the JSA more then the JLA.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Have you read Morrison, Waid, and Joe Kelly's JLA comics?

 

[Stealth_Prime]

Yes, I have.....its okay....but didn't quite have the same "oomph" as JSA. I liked Morrison's and Waid's take on the team though. The only reason why I'm still reading the JLA is because its a decendent of the JSA (in a way)....same reason why I read other team books.....for the continuity and legacy started by the JSA.


does DC really expect to follow in the footsteps of Marvel killing off Steve Rogers aka Captain America? Isn't the timing a little TOO coincidental? Is it just me or is DC starting to loose their ability to be original?

 

[Red]

Yes, I have.....its okay....but didn't quite have the same "oomph" as JSA. I liked Morrison's and Waid's take on the team though. The only reason why I'm still reading the JLA is because its a decendent of the JSA (in a way)....same reason why I read other team books.....for the continuity and legacy started by the JSA.


does DC really expect to follow in the footsteps of Marvel killing off Steve Rogers aka Captain America? Isn't the timing a little TOO coincidental? Is it just me or is DC starting to loose their ability to be original?

Starting?

 

[Anubis]

Pages back this whole thing was squashed as a rumor started, and ended, by some *****e bag "reporter". PAY ATTENTION!

 

[Stallion9979]

even though its all apparently it was a bull**** rumor I will ask the following question...just for ****s and giggles....

You run DC...they decide that killing off Batman is the direction they wanna go in and you are in charge of writing the story that kills an icon...

How would you do it...would you go Barry Allen death to defend the universe?? Killed by a lucky street punk on a routine mugging?? Iconic death at the hand of a popular villian ala Joker, Two Face, etc?? How would you kill off the Dark Knight???

 

[Harlekin]

Joker kills him in the Batcave, then commits suicide.

 

[prince_dylan]

this started with the "Final Crisis" poster right?

the problem with killing any of the heroes on the poster is that all have died or been replaced at some point, so why do it again?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Why have a Crisis to resurrect the Silver Age? No one's quite sure about that one, but DC did it anyway.

 

[Aristotle]

He doesn't care for heroes without powers in general, but he hates Batman for the same reason Aristotle hates most things Marvel. Cuz people say he's teh awesome.

Um...wow. I'm a longtime Captain America fan, a longtime Ghost Rider fan, and a newly minted X-Men fanatic. I follow the Avengers (and the Ultimates). I've even been known to enjoy the odd Hulk or Spider-Man tale. What I dislike about Marvel are the larger trends that govern it, as well as the people who tend to be in charge of it. Also, their big events tend to be utter hogwash compared to DC's (which is amazing, since DC has had some stinkers like Amazons Attack and the one where all the heroes lost their powers and something sort of happened with the New Gods.)

But you can feel free to keep on believing that I just dislike whatever other people like. I'm sure that makes it easier to pigeonhole me.

 

[Eros]

That's how I was too...I didn't like any character unless they had powers. Two-Face, Lex, Batman, Gordon, Punisher, Robin, Nightwing I never cared for any of them. THEN I read the Long Halloween and my whole opinion on Batman (and non-powered characters as a whole) drastically changed. Now Two-face and Lex are some of my favorite villains and Batman is one of my favorite heroes, if not my favorite. All it takes to realize that Batman actually does have a superpower IMO is reading a good trade of his. Sure he has no 'official power' but his brilliance and cunning are on a superhuman level IMO...and that makes him all the more interesting. Brains over brawns...

Interestingly enough Batman is physically more powerful then much of his rogues gallery, save for Bane and possibly clayface.

 

[Stallion9979]

seems no one wanted to touch my what if you could write The Death of Batman story....

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I didn't give it much thought because the real answer is that you couldn't write a death of Batman story. The character has endured for so long and is so deeply entrenched in the comic culture--and, indeed, in American pop culture as a whole--that the very idea of his death is too big to even contemplate. Literally anything would fall short of expectations for something that huge. Kill him off in a random act of violence from some thug who got lucky and the Batman fanboys would cry foul for his going out like a punk. Kill him off in a huge, grandiose fashion against some nigh-unstoppable foe and other fans would cry foul for forcing Batman into some wonky JLA-style story and killing him outside of his true element--the nitty-gritty of the Gotham underbelly. Have the Joker kill him and it's predictable and validates the fanboy idea that Batman should've offed the Joker long ago. Have any other Batman villain kill him and people are pissed because random villain #9 killed him instead of his real arch-nemesis, the Joker. It's a no-win proposition.

 

[Eros]

they wrote a superman death story, im pretty sure writing a batman one would be alot easier.

 

[Stallion9979]

well its more of a if you could...i understand what you say and the hesitancy to come up with an idea...but its not about win win...its to create a story that feels right for the character...comics or no comics they've aged Robin and they've aged Nightwing so by extension they've aged Bruce...at this point i believe its stated somewhere he's 39 at this point...

Batman is just a human being and while yes he is meant to exemplify the best in humanity its age is gonna come into play eventually...no man is gonna be as quick or as agile or as strong in his late 30's early 40's as a man in his prime...there was even that moment in IC when he throws a chair through the screen and he holds his chest claiming he cant do it anymore...i mean we are at least a year or 2 removed from that with OYL and stories taking place after...

its reasonable to assume unless with Final Crisis that DC hits the temporal reset button and restarts the Universe ala Post CoIE that some sort of progression character wise should occur...I'm a huge Bat-Fan...I would love to see how they would handle an aging Batman....

and with the right story...as long as it were to play to the strength of the character and the story i think could be tremendous...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

they wrote a superman death story, im pretty sure writing a batman one would be alot easier.

They wrote a momentary death for Superman that was undone about a year later. Anything could work for that in Batman or any other hero's case. I figured Stallion was talking about a real, permanent death for Bruce, not a cheap, gimmicky death that'd be over before we noticed, like Superman's.

 

[Stallion9979]

no no...I mean if you had your way...how would you do it...

to me one of the most memorable moments was the Death of Barry Allen...he died trying to save humanity and more importantly stayed dead...it meant something and served the character...of all the heroes that died and came back he was the one that stayed gone...

 

[David Rice]

Why is this thead even still here?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

no no...I mean if you had your way...how would you do it...

to me one of the most memorable moments was the Death of Barry Allen...he died trying to save humanity and more importantly stayed dead...it meant something and served the character...of all the heroes that died and came back he was the one that stayed gone...

Oh, well if I had my way, Batman would get to the ripe old (for superheroes) age of 50-something and some punk kid who was only engaging in crime because of peer pressure and misguided loyalty to his degenerate friends would squeeze off a blind shot and kill him. An understandably angry Nightwing and Robin would find the kid and, instead of bringing him to "justice" by cuffing him and carting him to jail, Tim would realize that the kid is just a victim himself of the crime and corruption still endemic to Gotham. He and Dick would put their feelings aside and find a way to help the kid get away from those corrupting influences he was subjected to. That kid would then go on to honor Bruce's memory by taking up the Robin mantle to Tim Drake's Batman.

A little hokey, I know, but I think it works well. Any end to Bruce Wayne necessarily must be a beginning to a new Batman, in my opinion; that much was certain from the moment Dick Grayson was introduced and reinforced by Barbara Gordon, Jason Todd, Tim Drake, Cassandra Cain, and all the other vigilantes inspired by Batman.

 

[Stallion9979]

it would make for an ironic story to have Batman be killed after everything he has gone through by a random act of street violence and a great bookend for the character considering his whole reason for becoming Batman was in fact...a random act of street violence...

kind of a live by the sword, die by the sword ending...

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yep. Kind of depressing, too, given that that random act of violence that killed him would largely be due to the same problems that gave rise to the random act of violence that killed his parents and started him on his mission, meaning his mission was ultimately meaningless. But I'm a cynic, and I really loved that Angel episode where Angel had an epiphany about how the grand scheme doesn't really matter and the simple act of helping one person or doing one small good deed was worth doing in and of itself.

 

[Stallion9979]

I have always found it interesting in how as much as Batman did against the common street thug and police corruption...he also inspired a league of psychotic villains with equal flair for the dramatic...

i mean he created the protocols in case of emergency that wounded up incapasitating the League and almost leading to Ra's taking over the world...

with more attempts to be proactive he leads to the creation of OMAC and Brother Eye...almost leading to the end of all Earth's Heroes and almost being killed by a mind controlled Superman and the death of Ted Kord

I mean do you think he ever starts to wonder if he's done more harm then good?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There have probably been stories devoted to that. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but he did seem kind of awestruck by how crazy his crazy rogues were in Grant Morrison's Arkham Asylum.

 

[WompuM]

it would make for an ironic story to have Batman be killed after everything he has gone through by a random act of street violence and a great bookend for the character considering his whole reason for becoming Batman was in fact...a random act of street violence...

kind of a live by the sword, die by the sword ending...

And have him shot through the open part of his cowl that hasnt been taken advantage of in this or any decade.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

That's what I was thinking. The kid fires off a blind shot--first shot he's ever fired during the first crime he's ever committed, mind--and it ricochets off a wall and hits Batman in the cheek, lodging itself in his brain.