The Flash The Flash Season 5: episode 12 - Memorabilia

[Web-Head]

Discuss

 

[Morg]

Grace is a brat

 

[Thome216]

Grace is a little girl with dark matter in her head whose trying to protect the last of her family. She's hurt, scared and angry, and throwing the blame at the easiest target.

My question is, who was that version of Cicada that was there last? That was a blonde woman.

 

[Cain]

Something tells me that was future Grace.

 

[Gaultheria]

Grace is a little girl with dark matter in her head whose trying to protect the last of her family. She's hurt, scared and angry, and throwing the blame at the easiest target.

My question is, who was that version of Cicada that was there last? That was a blonde woman.

Grace seems to be the real Cicada, controlling her uncle via their dark matter connection. She wants to be all strong and big to punish the meta bad guys who killed her parents, and just like young Nora she doesn't have an accurate memory or a grown-up way of looking at the situation.

 

[Gaultheria]

I wish they hadn't hinted at Red Death as next season's villain. DC goes on strange trips now and then that are best forgotten. Dark Nights: Metal was one of them.

Maybe he'll keep mostly to the Batwoman district of the Arrowverse.

 

[Thome216]

Grace seems to be the real Cicada, controlling her uncle via their dark matter connection. She wants to be all strong and big to punish the meta bad guys who killed her parents, and just like young Nora she doesn't have an accurate memory or a grown-up way of looking at the situation.

Hmmm... I like that theory.

 

[Flash525]

My question is, who was that version of Cicada that was there last? That was a blonde woman.

Something tells me that was future Grace.

How would future grace be resident within young grace's head though? It would be a good twist if Grace turned out to be the actual (confused) villain here rather than her uncle, but even so, there was no timeline shenanigans with that dark matter business.

I wish they hadn't hinted at Red Death as next season's villain. DC goes on strange trips now and then that are best forgotten. Dark Nights: Metal was one of them.

Would it be next season though, or the second half of this season - unless they're back to Thawne. We know Cicada isn't going to be the villain for the entire season already.

 

[Prettyricky]

It kind of hit me last night that this season is becoming weaker then last years. Last night did nothing to push the plot along including nora almost revealing she has a secret. Cicada doesnt seem to have a grand plan of any kind

 

[Web-Head]

How would future grace be resident within young grace's head though? It would be a good twist if Grace turned out to be the actual (confused) villain here rather than her uncle, but even so, there was no timeline shenanigans with that dark matter business.

Would it be next season though, or the second half of this season - unless they're back to Thawne. We know Cicada isn't going to be the villain for the entire season already.

This season has been better in quality, but not necessarily storywise. I liked Davoe better than Cicada, in a way, but I absolutely loathed when he started swapping bodies and all that. Nora has brought a lot of energy to the show but Sherlock has been a mistake

A bit of a filler episode, but it still moved some things along. I liked the Team Flash ice skating and all the West-Allen moments.

 

[Cain]

How would future grace be resident within young grace's head though? It would be a good twist if Grace turned out to be the actual (confused) villain here rather than her uncle, but even so, there was no timeline shenanigans with that dark matter business.

That was her subconscious defense mechansm. She tells it "they all must die" at the very end. Likely how she views herself ultimately. Same episode tells us Cicada is never caught and never stops. Chances are she picks up her Uncle's mantle the same way Nora follows The Flash's example. There's a reason all those parrallels were drawn between her and Nora. This show has never been shy about being on the nose.

 

[Lencho01]

I’m just waiting for Sherloque to expose Nora for the charlatan that she is!

 

[Dotst]

So Nora got RF locked up and wants him to help her stop Cicada. How exactly? I really dont understand why Cicada is so hard to stop. At the beginning all you needed to do was win against him in a fist fight but NO ONE could do that?

Honestly cicada is just really boring in general and if the villain in the second half of this season is the Reverse Flash.. I dont know how well this season will be as a whole

 

[Gaultheria]

We know Cicada isn't going to be the villain for the entire season already.

Waitwut?

 

[Guard82]

So Nora got RF locked up and wants him to help her stop Cicada. How exactly? I really dont understand why Cicada is so hard to stop. At the beginning all you needed to do was win against him in a fist fight but NO ONE could do that?

I was confused about this too. I don't quite understand why someone like Green Arrow couldn't take down Cicada. Oliver is one of the best fighters in the Arrowverse, and he has no metahuman powers for Cicada to dampen. Since we've seen several times that Cicada can be beaten in a straight fist-fight, I don't see why someone like Oliver couldn't take him down.

But when this was brought up earlier in the season, Nora claimed that Oliver had once tried to stop Cicada and failed. I don't really understand why. Cicada's fighting skills, while sufficient for his purposes, don't seem to be anywhere near Oliver's level of proficiency at hand-to-hand combat. And Oliver has beaten much more powerful enemies than Cicada.

 

[Flash525]

I really dont understand why Cicada is so hard to stop. At the beginning all you needed to do was win against him in a fist fight but NO ONE could do that?

I was confused about this too. I don't quite understand why someone like Green Arrow couldn't take down Cicada. Oliver is one of the best fighters in the Arrowverse, and he has no metahuman powers for Cicada to dampen. Since we've seen several times that Cicada can be beaten in a straight fist-fight, I don't see why someone like Oliver couldn't take him down.

It doesn't make any sense, we can agree on that. Maybe every attempt that Ollie had at defeating him, he just flew away? Hah. That said, wasn't it also said that Kara tried, and she couldn't defeat him either, or did I imagine that? To (some) extent, you could throw a theory in there that he becomes a bit more powerful or (per flight) manages to escape from Ollie, but Kara should be able to defeat him hands down - even if he does fly off, she can just fly after him. She's not a metahuman.

That said, Killer Frost should have defeated him in that other episode, even Barry had the chance, so this whole "we're really going to struggle with this one" is a farse. We've had opportunities before, and as it's rightly been pointed out, there's ample people in the Arrowverse already that should be able to defeat him in hand to hand combat. Ollie, Diggle, heck, I'd even bet on Renee's chances.

Waitwut?

Yeah, I'll have to try and find the source later (unless anyone else has quick access to it) but this season was said to feature more than one main bad, and that Cicada wouldn't take up the entire season as the primary villain. Presumably, considering how far they've come with him already, he'll be defeated before the next break.

 

[Guard82]

It doesn't make any sense, we can agree on that. Maybe every attempt that Ollie had at defeating him, he just flew away? Hah. That said, wasn't it also said that Kara tried, and she couldn't defeat him either, or did I imagine that? To (some) extent, you could throw a theory in there that he becomes a bit more powerful or (per flight) manages to escape from Ollie, but Kara should be able to defeat him hands down - even if he does fly off, she can just fly after him. She's not a metahuman.

You're correct -- in that same scene where Nora said that Green Arrow had failed to stop Cicada, she also said that Supergirl had tried to stop him and that she also failed. Nora also claimed that the Legends of Tomorrow also went after Cicada, but they couldn't stop him either. I still don't see what's so special about Cicada that none of these heroes could put him out of action, even the ones who aren't vulnerable to his power-dampening ability.

 

[Dark Raven]

Sherloque was particularly hard to understand this episode when he had to talk at length in his silly accent. I wish he hadn't adopted any of these accents or mannerisms.

Cicada is boring. If he's the hardest villain to beat, then the heroes must be pretty hopeless. What about him can't Oliver Queen beat? And why wouldn't Supergirl be able to beat him? And why can't Killer Frost do that? She almost had him last week but then had to turn back to Caitlin just to tell Barry that someone needs a doctor.

 

[Thome216]

Simple answer - 'Plot Armor.' Cicada has several tons of plot armor, and no, there is no reason for him to be so hard to get. Several times they have had him dead to rights, but the writers keep supplying an out.

He is a boring character who is badly acted. They should never have shown him without his cloak and mask cause at least then there would still be some mystery and wondering as to how he could defeat all these heroes, and not end up ruling the Earth by Nora's time.

Plus, c'mon, Supergirl and Superman couldn't get him?! As said above, neither are metas and Caitlyn has had Cicada twice before the aforementioned plot armor kicked in.

Mad Dog would have him in half an episode!

 

[Flash525]

Nora also claimed that the Legends of Tomorrow also went after Cicada, but they couldn't stop him either. I still don't see what's so special about Cicada that none of these heroes could put him out of action, even the ones who aren't vulnerable to his power-dampening ability.

I had forgotten about them, but yeah, you're right.

Cicada is boring. If he's the hardest villain to beat, then the heroes must be pretty hopeless. What about him can't Oliver Queen beat? And why wouldn't Supergirl be able to beat him? And why can't Killer Frost do that? She almost had him last week but then had to turn back to Caitlin just to tell Barry that someone needs a doctor.

Simple answer - 'Plot Armor.' Cicada has several tons of plot armor, and no, there is no reason for him to be so hard to get. Several times they have had him dead to rights, but the writers keep supplying an out.

I think we can all agree on this. Nobody can stop him. How on earth is Cicada a tougher villain to defeat than the likes of Thawne or Zoom? It's laughable! Even if we exclude Thawne and Zoom, there's countless single-episode villains that (should) pose a greater threat than this Cicada has done. The writers certainly haven't done this villain justice by any means, and they've made Team Flash look like a bunch of morons.

After the likes of Thawne, Zoom, Grodd and Thinker, and now this pitiful excuse, I really question where they can go next (once they've done Thawne Part 2 at least). It's times like this that I really wish they hadn't RUINED the Rogues; that group could have easily become antagonists of the entire show, let alone seasonal, but they've been destroyed by the short sightedness of the writers.

Seriously though, who is left to be of a plausible threat to Team Flash moving forward? Looking at Flash villains on comicvine, the only one we've not had that would be remotely interesting is Colbolt Blue, but even then, another speedster? Considering how they ruined The Rival, I'd rather not let them touch on another speedster who's suddenly sprung up from nowhere.

The only way out I can see, is a villain, or team of villains (similar to Zoom) that are from a different Earth. With any luck the Crisis event will allow for a retcon of everything we know from within the Arrowverse, and some of these enemies (Rogues in particular) can be looked at again, though we'd need to recast a few of the characters (like Snart).

 

[shabadoo25]

Sherloque was particularly hard to understand this episode when he had to talk at length in his silly accent. I wish he hadn't adopted any of these accents or mannerisms.

Cicada is boring. If he's the hardest villain to beat, then the heroes must be pretty hopeless. What about him can't Oliver Queen beat? And why wouldn't Supergirl be able to beat him? And why can't Killer Frost do that? She almost had him last week but then had to turn back to Caitlin just to tell Barry that someone needs a doctor.

The writers of these shows are constantly forced to set up scenarios that make no sense because they have 22 eps to fill. It's annoying.

Ollie's full crew from last season should be able to surround him and take him out rather easily, even if they couldn't do it individually. Ray in the Atom suit should be able to do it by himself.

 

[Dark Raven]

If Cicada is the hardest villain to beat and is unbeatable, then any future villain they face should not really take much effort. Therefore if they're struggling with someone else, they must really be incompetent. And if a future villain does appear much more formidable and intimidating, then how can history record that Cicada was the toughest challenge of all?

The writers of these shows are constantly forced to set up scenarios that make no sense because they have 22 eps to fill. It's annoying.

Ollie's full crew from last season should be able to surround him and take him out rather easily, even if they couldn't do it individually. Ray in the Atom suit should be able to do it by himself.

Well Ray ought to be able to do it, but he's written as incompetent half the time. However, someone like him or Ant-Man should be extremely powerful. If Ray were a villain, all he'd have to do is fly into Cicada's mouth and then grow to giant size very quickly. That would rip Cicada to shreds and leave him a mess of blood and flesh everywhere.

 

[Pennywise]

I liked most of the episode, but Cicada is wearing thin. Grace was annoying too!

 

[Flash525]

If Cicada is the hardest villain to beat and is unbeatable, then any future villain they face should not really take much effort. Therefore if they're struggling with someone else, they must really be incompetent. And if a future villain does appear much more formidable and intimidating, then how can history record that Cicada was the toughest challenge of all?

Heh, valid, except we know that (because of timeline shenanigans) Cicada will be defeated, and history (as far as the future goes) will be changed, obviously leaving it open for a tougher villain to come about.

Honestly, I'd like if the next villain was Godspeed, specifically the young speedster that Jay Garrick was said to be training up. I'm sure some competent writer (they'd have to find one somewhere) could write a script that had Godspeed become jealous of E1's Barry Allen and start to taunt and cause trouble for him. He doesn't have to be evil as such, more jealous? Bad guys don't always have to be bad; just look at Deathstroke, Black Siren or Heatwave.

 

[Thome216]

I think that would be too much like Thrawn. He started being jealous and trying to emulate Barry too.

I wouldn't mind if they retreaded some bad guys, as they have cropped up multiple times in the comics anyway. They just have to do them better.
Though, if they have reached the bottom of the Rogues Barrel, then they could actually think up some new villains.
They could even go the alien route as a season arc rather than a crossover event. We know aliens are rare on E1, but they have been used before.
Or use the Crisis Event to do a reboot

Grace seems to be the real Cicada, controlling her uncle via their dark matter connection. She wants to be all strong and big to punish the meta bad guys who killed her parents, and just like young Nora she doesn't have an accurate memory or a grown-up way of looking at the situation.

I like this idea for Cicada continuing onward. They messed him up too much, so twisting it and making Grace the actual villain would give this enough of an interesting twist to save it. Maybe.