The Flash The Flash season 3 episode 23 "Finish Line"

[zenith16]

As to the very end, I see it as kind of fitting. This is penance for Barry, as he has fumbled with Time far too often and left a number of consequences trailing in his wake. He's been fast enough to keep ahead of them, but it would always catch up, no matter what. And as his 'Mother' stated, it won't be a Hell for him. I think it will be as if the accident ever happened for him.

yes there's that and you have to take into account that the problem was the "speed for jail", which he had it invented 5 years earlier then it should was malfunctioning and it needed someone in it in order for it to be stopped.


yeah the speed force came for barry and they said he needs to atone which was jay and the star lab team .

but let's not forget there was another reason too. in he had the speed force jail created too. so in a way he still cause yet another problem for him and the city and it was harming the city yet again.

it was sadly another foresight problem

 

[misslane38]

Thome216, please don't create a straw man version of my argument, and please understand that you can save someone's life by killing someone; so Iris did kill someone even though it was to save someone else. Also note that I never said that Iris murdered anyone. Murder and killing are different, I believe. Murder suggests a certain cold-blooded malice whereas killing can be done in self-defense or for the greater good, and I'm not suggesting that what Iris did wasn't that. However, the show through Iris's own words to Barry about what made him a righteous and good hero with regards to his moral decision making with Solivar the gorilla set up that killing even for the greater good wasn't something Iris considered to be right or heroic.

 

[Deltron3030]

Rushed and terrrible finale. 5/10 at best. Season is equivalent to season 4 arrow.

 

[Avenging Angel]

So after watching the lackluster finale I've come to some thoughts...

Caitlin Frost needs more screen time. I keep wanting to know more every time they show her on screen. She needs to delve into that anti-hero story more deeply. I'd love it if she was featured on Legends or her own spinoff show along with Cisco and Barry coming on.

I didn't really care for anything West-related. The drama there is stupid and was heavily overdone this entire season. The reason most of us watch is because Arrow is dark and dank, Flash counteracted that with its light and fun stories.

For Season 4 I hope the writers are aware of how much they are copying Arrow's weak spots and act fast to fix it. Barry is very much unlikable right now. It's time they regroup, hire new writers, focus on development and great moments. Filter out the filler episodes, I have no patience for those.

Of course the highlights were Savitar and Killer Frost with Cisco. I loved that whole scene, even though they were evil, it was cool to see the team together again. I miss that. I also loved the final battle scene at the end. (minus Savitar dying from a single bullet)

I barely watched the episodes on time this season, I hope my attitude changes going into Season 4. It should return to what made it great and expand on its strong points. They can't fail if they concentrate their ideas on filling in the obvious blanks.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

I definitely thought this was by far the weakest of the four finales, scenes that should've been emotional fell flat, HR's death was handled so clumsily that I just didn't feel anything, and I liked HR, I definitely should've had some sort of emotional response to it, but I didn't, and the cliffhanger isn't fooling anyone, we know Barry won't be gone for very long in S4, they should've just had Barry manage to trap Savitar in the speed force again and given us a Thinker tease instead, save Barry trapped in the speedforce and Wally-Flash for a few seasons from now, when they might actually be able to fool some of us. I still enjoyed it though, with the exception of the opening and the last several minutes I thought it was a very enjoyable finale, but a finale should be held to a higher standard than that, but this didn't really give me any emotional response or get me really excited about anything, S1 and S2 both managed to do that, but not S3. Not a bad finale imo, just disappointing, especially compared to Supergirl and Arrow's finales.

 

[herolee10]

You know something is no longer right when an Season finale of Arrow's is more satisfying to watch than Flash's finale.lol

 

[Osiris-Rex]

You know something is no longer right when an Season finale of Arrow's is more satisfying to watch than Flash's finale.lol

Then again all of this season of Arrow has been far superior to all this season of Flash. Which is weird because seasons 3 and especially 4 of Arrow were so awful. Then again last season of Flash wasn't that great either.
It's like they struck gold with season 1 of the Flash and instead of daring to defy and try something new, they just went with what they thought worked the first time.

 

[herolee10]

Then again all of this season of Arrow has been far superior to all this season of Flash. Which is weird because seasons 3 and especially 4 of Arrow were so awful. Then again last season of Flash wasn't that great either.
It's like they struck gold with season 1 of the Flash and instead of daring to defy and try something new, they just went with what they thought worked the first time.

The problem is that the producers have been desperately trying so hard to repeat/recreate the magic that made Season 1 such a big success (evil Speedster villain with a secret identity that's supposed to shock people once the heroes find out....a version of Wells that assists Team Flash.....and the whole Team Flash gimmick as well.)

The Female Lead (Iris) isn't that enjoyable to watch, the show at times tries way to hard to execute a concept that should be left for the film division (due to the large scale and budget it requires) thus their efforts end up looking very poor in the long run.

And it doesn't help that a good portion of Team Flash aren't interesting characters (or actors) to watch and spend time on screen.

 

[Thome216]

Thome216, please don't create a straw man version of my argument, and please understand that you can save someone's life by killing someone; so Iris did kill someone even though it was to save someone else. Also note that I never said that Iris murdered anyone. Murder and killing are different, I believe. Murder suggests a certain cold-blooded malice whereas killing can be done in self-defense or for the greater good, and I'm not suggesting that what Iris did wasn't that. However, the show through Iris's own words to Barry about what made him a righteous and good hero with regards to his moral decision making with Solivar the gorilla set up that killing even for the greater good wasn't something Iris considered to be right or heroic.

Yes, that's what I said. Iris saved Barry by killing Savicavier.

And I don't need someone to give me the definition of murder. I just happened to use that word instead of kill.

And I was just trying to answer your question about whether Iris 'dirtied' her hands by the way she saved Barry, but hey, lesson learned.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

not sure if this has already been mentioned but, when talking about this episode with a friend of mine, he pointed out an interesting plot hole

well, he only questioned when exactly Trace saw H.R.'s real face if he was using the holograph thingy...(when he first showed the rest of the team this trick he had to use some type of flashy thingy on them to readjust their optics to be able to see the real him through the holograph, yes?) we never saw him on screen readjust her version to be able to see him, yet, when she saw Iris in the H.R. holograph/or Harry (for that matter) she recognized him (yes, of course it could have just happened off screen) and that's pretty much the answer I gave him

but, that got me thinking, shouldn't the whole team (including Barry, and by extinction future Barry) still be able to see pass the holographs?

did H.R. have the foresight to reprogram the optic frequency of the holograph... using it seemed like kind of a last minute decision... I mean him going there in the first place wasn't exactly a well thought out plan

or does he deserve more credit then we think

 

[GeoMFilms]

This was an ok season finale. My wife and I liked the twist with H.R. that was neat. I liked how they tried to turn future flash good..it makes sense. But that whole ending with the storm and someone having to go into the speed force force was weird. Barry is taking like 5 minutes to say bye to everyone but in the mean time who knows how many people could be dying in car crashes or getting shocked by lightning haha.

We love the show but all this time travel and speed force stuff is hard to keep up with. I didn't even remember or know what that black flash thing that came out of the speed force was. I remember some type of flying ghost looking things but what was the black flash again?

And what was Barrys mom suppose to be? Thats not actually his mom right? Just dont understand that speed force (dont read comics..just know based on the TV show)

 

[Syncos]

This was an ok season finale. My wife and I liked the twist with H.R. that was neat. I liked how they tried to turn future flash good..it makes sense. But that whole ending with the storm and someone having to go into the speed force force was weird. Barry is taking like 5 minutes to say bye to everyone but in the mean time who knows how many people could be dying in car crashes or getting shocked by lightning haha.

We love the show but all this time travel and speed force stuff is hard to keep up with. I didn't even remember or know what that black flash thing that came out of the speed force was. I remember some type of flying ghost looking things but what was the black flash again?

And what was Barrys mom suppose to be? Thats not actually his mom right? Just dont understand that speed force (dont read comics..just know based on the TV show)

The black flash thing: was Hunter Zoloman AKA Zoom. Now he's just an agent of the Speed Force, destroying paradoxes. He's been chasing Thawne through Legends of Tomorrow.

Barry's mom was just a construct of the speed force, used for manipulation.

 

[theflashionist]

I really don't know how they are going to redeem themselves from this finale..

 

[Thome216]

not sure if this has already been mentioned but, when talking about this episode with a friend of mine, he pointed out an interesting plot hole

well, he only questioned when exactly Trace saw H.R.'s real face if he was using the holograph thingy...(when he first showed the rest of the team this trick he had to use some type of flashy thingy on them to readjust their optics to be able to see the real him through the holograph, yes?) we never saw him on screen readjust her version to be able to see him, yet, when she saw Iris in the H.R. holograph/or Harry (for that matter) she recognized him (yes, of course it could have just happened off screen) and that's pretty much the answer I gave him

but, that got me thinking, shouldn't the whole team (including Barry, and by extinction future Barry) still be able to see pass the holographs?

did H.R. have the foresight to reprogram the optic frequency of the holograph... using it seemed like kind of a last minute decision... I mean him going there in the first place wasn't exactly a well thought out plan

or does he deserve more credit then we think

Maybe their vision was not calibrated to see Iris' face, or HR's face on another person..? I don't know. I didn't think about that until you mentioned it.

Seems like something either the writers forgot or hoped that we all forgot, which some did, so way to go writers!

 

[Dark Raven]

I think they just forgot about how the tech worked and hoped viewers would too, so that they could switch HR with Iris.

Why would Barry need to go into the speed force? Why does there always have to be someone in there? That seems to be a changed premise from previous seasons. The speed force existed fine before without there needing to be a prisoner, or even when Barry went back in time. Why suddenly now that Savitar has blinked out of existence does it become unstable and threaten to engulf the world? Savitar didn't even exist in seasons 1 and 2, and certainly neither Jay nor Wally were occupying the speed force in place of Barry.

And what about every time Eobard Thawne changed time? He wasn't required to be prisoner in there either.

And what happened to the speed wraiths? Why is it the Black Flash who has been chasing people now? He wasn't even around before the end of season 2.

 

[Frodo]

I really don't know how they are going to redeem themselves from this finale..

Grant is a good actor, but he can't carry mediocre to weak episodes and storylines if the writers aren't giving their all .

At this point, my recommendation would be to get him out of the lazy "speedforce needs an occupant !" story in the first 20 minutes of the premiere , shake up the status quo a bit in other ways , and get back on track with a new, non speedster bad.

 

[Syncos]

The problem is that the producers have been desperately trying so hard to repeat/recreate the magic that made Season 1 such a big success (evil Speedster villain with a secret identity that's supposed to shock people once the heroes find out....a version of Wells that assists Team Flash.....and the whole Team Flash gimmick as well.)

The Female Lead (Iris) isn't that enjoyable to watch, the show at times tries way to hard to execute a concept that should be left for the film division (due to the large scale and budget it requires) thus their efforts end up looking very poor in the long run.

And it doesn't help that a good portion of Team Flash aren't interesting characters (or actors) to watch and spend time on screen.

The biggest problem with this, is that I think they missed the point on what made their first season soo great.

Keeping in mind that we (the viewer) knew Wells was a bad guy from the very first episode. We didn't know his motivations. Plus it helps that Tom is one of the best actors they have on team.

We knew from the first episode tease that Wells wasn't all he was letting on to be. But he still made you care about him, and he still seemed to legitimately care about the team. So he was able to keep you guessing.

THAT is intrigue. Not this "New masked speedster. Who could he be?!" one note mystery taking up a whole season.

 

[Dark Raven]

Next season's big mystery should be to guess what the big mystery could be.

 

[javonstokess]

I like the suggestion of adapting the "Return of Barry Allen" storyline from Mark Waid by CBR.

 

[Syncos]

I like the suggestion of adapting the "Return of Barry Allen" storyline from Mark Waid by CBR.

one of my favourite stories.

I'd love to see it. But I think not only would Wally have to be comfortable in the role of Flash, but the audience would have to be comfortable with it.

 

[KillerMcQueen]

Yeah, "Return of Barry Allen" is definitely a story I'd love to see them tackle, but it also is one that should be saved for much later in the series, and only if Keiynan manages to grow enough as an actor that he can lead the show for awhile. It would also feel somewhat repetitive to have Grant playing the villain again so soon after S3, would also be very similar to S2's plot. Definitely one of my favorite Flash stories, maybe even my absolute favorite, I highly recommend it to any Flash fan. Would be a great idea for the shows final season, with Wally finally truly coming into his own and embracing being the Flash.

 

[Thome216]

I think they just forgot about how the tech worked and hoped viewers would too, so that they could switch HR with Iris.

Why would Barry need to go into the speed force? Why does there always have to be someone in there? That seems to be a changed premise from previous seasons. The speed force existed fine before without there needing to be a prisoner, or even when Barry went back in time. Why suddenly now that Savitar has blinked out of existence does it become unstable and threaten to engulf the world? Savitar didn't even exist in seasons 1 and 2, and certainly neither Jay nor Wally were occupying the speed force in place of Barry.

And what about every time Eobard Thawne changed time? He wasn't required to be prisoner in there either.

And what happened to the speed wraiths? Why is it the Black Flash who has been chasing people now? He wasn't even around before the end of season 2.

From what little I understood, the Speed Force prison needs a prisoner inside it so it doesn't destabilize. This is the prison Barry created to hold Savilator, and I'm guessing that it needs a focus point - i.e. the prisoner - in order to remain stable. Since it is only Speedsters who have been inside it, I assume that they somehow become part of the prison itself, with their energy feeding its integrity.

I guess...

 

[Dark Raven]

From what little I understood, the Speed Force prison needs a prisoner inside it so it doesn't destabilize. This is the prison Barry created to hold Savilator, and I'm guessing that it needs a focus point - i.e. the prisoner - in order to remain stable. Since it is only Speedsters who have been inside it, I assume that they somehow become part of the prison itself, with their energy feeding its integrity.

I guess...

Well, I understand this is their reasoning... now. But what I was saying is that wasn't the case before in seasons 1 and 2. They never spoke about this, and there never seemed to be any prisoner there to keep it stabilised. It seems to be more of a recent retcon just to have Barry end up in there for the cliffhanger.

 

[Thome216]

I just assume that Barry was unaware of the prison during his previous visits to the Speedforce. In S1 and S2 he wouldn't be aware of it, especially because it is his future self who creates it. Or has it created.

So while he was in the Speedforce before, he was unaware of Salivator being locked away there at the same time. Keeping in mind that the prison and the Speedforce are two different things, the fore built inside the latter.

Then Salivultron started sending out his 'minions' and then Barry learned that he creates said prison in the future to hold SaliCupcake prisoner for all time. Or until he breaks out.

Which I guess doesn't happen now, seeing how the circle has been broken.

 

[zenith16]

I think they just forgot about how the tech worked and hoped viewers would too, so that they could switch HR with Iris.

Why would Barry need to go into the speed force? Why does there always have to be someone in there? That seems to be a changed premise from previous seasons. The speed force existed fine before without there needing to be a prisoner, or even when Barry went back in time. Why suddenly now that Savitar has blinked out of existence does it become unstable and threaten to engulf the world? Savitar didn't even exist in seasons 1 and 2, and certainly neither Jay nor Wally were occupying the speed force in place of Barry.

.

ok I'll answer this part it's not that anyone alwaysneed to be inthe spped force it's as I said up top with thomas

they made the speed force buzzoka and there's was the two crsy
tals the one the caitlin kept which savitar was using and the one that the threw into the speed force after juline found it the same one the latter of which was orginally from future barry that made the mistake sending it into the past for julin to fine.

now the crystal was supposed to be the prision
bud sad they made the mistake putting thing into the speed force cause the claimed it would be like throwing it into space. yeah that was their big mistake there. like there seeing that that are other speedters runing through there and another of other complications . the thing that left over crystal that savitar escaped from taking wally was design that H.R. girl friend that future barry found to always need a prisoner. now the crystal on it's own being programed that way is one thing. but sadly barry and jayb made the mistake of putting it in the spped force of all place's cause they didn't think of all thing that this crystal should be destroy. they just wantedto toss it and forget. and tossing and for getting but you inthe arse. they just should had their buddy that have ship and missiles go to the sun and send a missile there. but it never came to their minds the same as we saw when they robbed argus and they saw argus had a meta human powers dampener.

no the othe chose would have been to do what thawn did in legend with the spear of destiny after he created the reality of doom world he had the workers of star labs build a well like particle annihilator that had the burning power of the sun 20 times over . if you can't have people send your problem with a certain object you want destroyed with the sun? then build your own sun.


But barry and the star labs team could think of this ether. so this is the conundrum.



it's that the crystal was designed that by the future version of H.R.'s girl friend and sadly Jay told Barry to throw the stupid crystal jail thing into the speed force.

and the Speed force was becoming unstable all due to the crystal jail device future barry had built via a future version of H.R.'s girl friend and current Barry mistake of putting the thing into the speed force in the current time/day. cause he couldn't be bothered to destroy it .


it was that some need to be inthe speed force it's cause of the mistake made by both barry and future barry with that crystal . it should never have been in the speed force. and the heroes have to realize you should just forget about some when a job's not finished . you fallow it through. destroy it. Don't toss it and forget. << Nothing good come for that latter chose.