The Friday The 13th Movies Thread - Part 1

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You kinda do. While I enjoyed A New Beginning, the fact is that the killer was in essence Jason, even if it wasn't technically Jason.
 
Majik1387 said:
You kinda do. While I enjoyed A New Beginning, the fact is that the killer was in essence Jason, even if it wasn't technically Jason.
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My point is that many people cite the Scooby Doo ending of Part 5 as what "ruined the movie".

With the original and Part 2, they were both essentially the same film. A lot of very similar characters. Same basic plot, pacing, suspense, gore, and as mentioned previously, the same minimalist approach to the music. The only thing that makes people enjoy the second movie more than the first is "the sequel has Jason in it".

The original didn't need Jason to be popular, and it was the popularity of the first one that spawned the sequels in the first place.

A New Beginning could have worked if they had cut back on the number of kills, made it more suspenseful, and added more red herrings to make people believe that Tommy was the killer. Maybe even hint that Vic might be the killer. Then I believe it would have been much better received.

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And again, technically not true. The killer in the first movie in essence was Jason, while not technically being Jason. And the final shot and the money the movie made is what spawned the sequels. People wanted Jason.
 
Majik1387 said:
And again, technically not true. The killer in the first movie in essence was Jason, while not technically being Jason. And the final shot and the money the movie made is what spawned the sequels. People wanted Jason.
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Sorry, but no. While Mrs Voorhees believed that her son was communicating with her from beyond the grave, she was just bats**t insane. Jason was her inspiration, but that doesn't make him the killer.

And it was not the final jump scare at the end that made the movie popular. It was the movie in its entirety. Remember, the jump scare at the end was just Alice's nightmare. It wasn't meant to be a prelude to a sequel, let alone a string of sequels.

It was the money that the first movie made that inspired Paramount to make sequels. It was Paramount that wanted Jason to be the killer in the sequel, not the fans of the first movie. And it was the quality of Part 2 that made the sequel such a success, and the movie's success that inspired more sequels. Had Part 2 been as poorly handled as A New Beginning was, then the franchise would have died right then and there, Jason or no Jason.

As for Part 5? Jason was Roy's inspiration, his means of hiding from the truth of his actions. That doesn't make Jason the killer. It's not like he was actually possessed by the spirit of Jason like in JGTH. It was just a coping mechanism.
 
Thundarr said:
I'm guessing you would have liked it more if Jason were the killer. The quality of the kills, the level of suspense, all of that is about the same between the first and second movie. They even take the same minimalist approach with the music in the sequel as the first movie.

Personally, I liked the whole mystery aspect of the first movie. And the twist at the end that the killer was in fact a seemingly sweet and helpful old lady I found to be very effective. The first time I ever saw the movie, Mrs Voorhees being the killer took me completely by surprise. The way the kills were shown throughout the movie led you to believe the killer was a man. Then when Mrs Voorhees showed up, you think she's there to help. Then BAM! It turns out she's the killer. IMO, brilliantly done.

As I've said in my posts defending A New Beginning, you don't need Jason as the killer in order to have a good Friday The 13th movie.
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Nope, my issue with the original is that judging it on a filmmaking level, it's a piece of crap. It fails to establish who the main character is until the very end of the movie....we're not ever really given any indication that Alice is supposed to be the focus of the movie, it's kind of everywhere. In part II it's made abundantly clear that Ginny is the heroin of the movie.

Also, part one is supposed to work as a whodunit mystery but eliminates all of the suspects in one stoke at the beginning of the movie by showing the killer watching everyone who was at the camp together. You can't have a proper mystery without having actual suspects, which is what part V got done so much better than the original. The ending with Mrs. Voorhees is poorly choreographed and clumsy, especially since she has no prior introduction.
 
Hulk-1700 said:
Nope, my issue with the original is that judging it on a filmmaking level, it's a piece of crap. It fails to establish who the main character is until the very end of the movie....we're not ever really given any indication that Alice is supposed to be the focus of the movie, it's kind of everywhere. In part II it's made abundantly clear that Ginny is the heroin of the movie.
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I would hardly call the original a piece of crap, although I will admit that it has its flaws. I thought it was pretty clear that Alice was supposed to be the focus of the movie, at least once Annie was killed. Annie was kind of a tribute to Janet Leigh's character in Psycho. Introduced early and then gets killed off.
hulk-1700 said:
Also, part one is supposed to work as a whodunit mystery but eliminates all of the suspects in one stroke at the beginning of the movie by showing the killer watching everyone who was at the camp together. You can't have a proper mystery without having actual suspects, which is what part V got done so much better than the original. The ending with Mrs. Voorhees is poorly choreographed and clumsy, especially since she has no prior introduction.
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Unlike with Part V, we were never meant to believe that one of the camp counselors was the killer. The killer at Camp Crystal Lake in 1980 was clearly supposed to be the same person as the killer from 1958. Clearly none of the counselors were alive in 1958, let alone old enough to stab two counselors to death.

I will agree that introducing Mrs Voorhees at the end of the movie the way they did wasn't the best way to go. They should have had her jeep parked outside the diner that Annie went in to ask for directions. Then she should have been shown in the diner drinking coffee when Annie asks how far to Camp Crystal Lake. No actual lines, just a face in the background. But it would be enough to have people think "Oh, the lady from the diner".

But I still like the twist that this seemingly nice, helpful old lady was in reality the one killing off all of Alice's friends.

But in terms of pacing, suspense, quality visual effects, etc, the movie was damn near perfect.
 
I never liked A New Beginning. Roy as the killer was lame and the characters were f****** terrible. Trailer park trash a**holes and pointless scenes filled with utter nonsense.

The only thing I can praise Danny Steinmann for is his use of Debi Sue Voorhees and her ample talents.
 
StarLord said:
I never liked A New Beginning. Roy as the killer was lame and the characters were f****** terrible. Trailer park trash a**holes and pointless scenes filled with utter nonsense.

The only thing I can praise Danny Steinmann for is his use of Debi Sue Voorhees and her ample talents.
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While I don't totally dislike A New Beginning, I don't exactly love it either. Roy being the killer wasn't handled very well, but the basic idea behind it wasn't too bad. Certain things about it just didn't make much sense. Like if Roy had abandoned Joey when he was a baby, how did he manage to get a picture of Joey all grown up for his wallet? I suppose he could've kept tabs on him as he was growing up, but that was a high school year book photo, not something he covertly took himself.

The bigger problem with that story line was just how obvious they made it that he was the killer. If Mrs Voorhees showing up out of the blue in the original was too little introduction, all those unnecessary shots of Roy and his cold stare was too much.

I'll agree with you about how unlike-able many of the characters were. Ethel and Junior were kind of amusing, but totally unnecessary. The greasers weren't even amusing a**holes, they were just obnoxious. Some of the other kids at Pinehurst were okay, but they didn't get enough time for proper character development. The wandering homeless guy was just put in there so that there would be something to cut to during the obligatory love scene. I didn't care much for Billy and Lana either. Except for Matt, Pam, the kids at Pinehurst, Reggie and his grandpa, most of the characters could have been cut without losing anything. In fact, it would have given more time for developing the main characters and building suspense.

I will agree with you on the assets of Debbie Sue Voorhees though.
 
Thundarr said:
I would hardly call the original a piece of crap, although I will admit that it has its flaws. I thought it was pretty clear that Alice was supposed to be the focus of the movie, at least once Annie was killed. Annie was kind of a tribute to Janet Leigh's character in Psycho. Introduced early and then gets killed off.
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That's the problem, they introduce Annie as if she's the main character but she's absolutely not. Would've worked to a much better effect if they would've showed Mrs. Voorhees picking up Annie but NOT show her killing her. It gives Mrs. Voorhees a prior scene and leaves it to the imagination as to what became of Annie.

And I know, F13th copied Halloween in every way so of course they tried having a Psycho reference.

Unlike with Part V, we were never meant to believe that one of the camp counselors was the killer. The killer at Camp Crystal Lake in 1980 was clearly supposed to be the same person as the killer from 1958. Clearly none of the counselors were alive in 1958, let alone old enough to stab two counselors to death.

I will agree that introducing Mrs Voorhees at the end of the movie the way they did wasn't the best way to go. They should have had her jeep parked outside the diner that Annie went in to ask for directions. Then she should have been shown in the diner drinking coffee when Annie asks how far to Camp Crystal Lake. No actual lines, just a face in the background. But it would be enough to have people think "Oh, the lady from the diner".

But I still like the twist that this seemingly nice, helpful old lady was in reality the one killing off all of Alice's friends.

But in terms of pacing, suspense, quality visual effects, etc, the movie was damn near perfect.
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I'll agree to disagree because I differ greatly in opinion. I've researched the series intimately, watched every film over & over to learn every detail and the original just doesn't grab me as much as other installments. They had some good elements to play with but weren't talented enough to execute it in the greatest of ways.

Imo, the original Halloween is everything you're describing and more.
 
Hulk-1700 said:
That's the problem, they introduce Annie as if she's the main character but she's absolutely not. Would've worked to a much better effect if they would've showed Mrs. Voorhees picking up Annie but NOT show her killing her. It gives Mrs. Voorhees a prior scene and leaves it to the imagination as to what became of Annie.

And I know, F13th copied Halloween in every way so of course they tried having a Psycho reference.



I'll agree to disagree because I differ greatly in opinion. I've researched the series intimately, watched every film over & over to learn every detail and the original just doesn't grab me as much as other installments. They had some good elements to play with but weren't talented enough to execute it in the greatest of ways.

Imo, the original Halloween is everything you're describing and more.
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I kinda like your idea for an earlier introduction of Mrs Voorhees by deliberately showing her giving Annie a ride and not showing her kill Annie. The only problem with it is, much like Roy's cold emotionless stare in Part V, when Annie doesn't show up it makes it kinda obvious as to who the killer is. What might be a better idea is if Mrs Voorhees were to offer to give Annie a ride to the crossroads instead of Enos. Then after she's dropped off at the crossroads, THAT'S the last we see of her. That would accomplish the same goal without making it too obvious that Pamela is the killer.

The major difference between the original Halloween and the original Friday The 13th is that in Halloween, we know from the get go that The Shape is really Michael Myers. In Friday The 13th, it's set up as somewhat of a who done it mystery. And I do agree that the mystery element was somewhat lacking because we weren't really given any suspects to guess at. I'm not arguing against that at all. I'm just saying that the last person you would suspect of being a psychotic spree killer would be a seemingly sweet and kind old woman.

Also Friday The 13th had a much higher body count, and showed far more blood than Halloween ever did. Of course they also had about double the budget and the genius of Tom Savini in their pocket. The higher body count and buckets of blood doesn't make the movie better or worse than Halloween (regardless of the opinions of Siskel & Ebert), they just make it different.

But in terms of suspense, music, atmosphere, etc, I think the two movies are just about even.
 
Hulk-1700 said:
That's the problem, they introduce Annie as if she's the main character but she's absolutely not. Would've worked to a much better effect if they would've showed Mrs. Voorhees picking up Annie but NOT show her killing her. It gives Mrs. Voorhees a prior scene and leaves it to the imagination as to what became of Annie.

And I know, F13th copied Halloween in every way so of course they tried having a Psycho reference.



I'll agree to disagree because I differ greatly in opinion. I've researched the series intimately, watched every film over & over to learn every detail and the original just doesn't grab me as much as other installments. They had some good elements to play with but weren't talented enough to execute it in the greatest of ways.

Imo, the original Halloween is everything you're describing and more.
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Hear hear :up:

Friday the 13th is not even in the same league as Carpenter's Halloween.
 
I don't even like Part 1 to be honest. Parts 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, and the remake are the only good ones. Jason X kinda has a novelty factor to it, but I don't think it's good.
 
Maybe not Carpenter's Halloween movies, but from the 3rd on? Yes, it's in the same league.
 
Yet they both had lukewarm reboots :oldrazz: .
The original Halloween remains being my favorite slasher, but FT13 has a better bulk of sequels overall.
 
That's fine but if you wanna look at classics of the horror genre just by the first in a series. Halloween is definitely up there in the top 5 maybe top 3. Friday the 13th is not. For me at least.
 
I get what you're saying, it's just a dumb thing to do.
 
Not really a dumb thing to do at all. If you're just talking about the first films in series which made a huge impact on this genre. As great as some sequels could be they had to have that first film.

And of those first films I am saying for big series like Halloween or Friday for example, Halloween is a classic at the top of the horror list. Ehh I dunno why I even bother trying to talk to you though haha.
 
Love this art for Part 6

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That's cool.

I was never a fan of Jason Lives. It just seemed all over the place and I prefer the isolation. I wasn't really impressed with Thom Matthews performance as Tommy either, not that everyone had an Oscar winning performance in the series, but I just didn't like him.

Sheriff Garris' death scene was cool though...
 
So now that Paramount has (allegedly) fully reasserted control of the franchise from New Line, now what?

What about more comics/Graphic Novel adaptations? (and are there comics versions that don't dwell on gore?)
 
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