The General Comic Discussion Thread - Part 2

[Charles Xavier]

I'm talking about an old comic here. The killing joke. The puddle at the end symbolic meaning can be too many things. It is hard to say for sure what is meant by it. I wish there was more clarity. It is still a great story imo

 

[Babillygunn]

I know that it is borderline blasphemous to say it, but I don’t really love The Killing Joke. And I say this as a big fan of Alan Moore, but despite his mastery at storytelling, I cannot deny that there does seem to be some legitimacy to the often-levied criticism of misogyny regarding a lot of his work. And The Killing Joke, along with his treatment of Rose Almond in V for Vendetta, and much of the treatment of female characters in Watchmen, really is hard for me to justify.

Amazing writer, but there is definitely some cringe to some of his choices.

 

[Charles Xavier]

I respect that, but I am just focusing on what I like about stuff for the most part.

 

[Mani-Man]

I'm talking about an old comic here. The killing joke. The puddle at the end symbolic meaning can be too many things. It is hard to say for sure what is meant by it. I wish there was more clarity. It is still a great story imo

Has Moore ever talked about this?
I feel its a fan thing where they read too much into something to the point where the discussion about the overall comic, turns often into just the symbolism of these last few panels.

I know that it is borderline blasphemous to say it, but I don’t really love The Killing Joke. And I say this as a big fan of Alan Moore, but despite his mastery at storytelling, I cannot deny that there does seem to be some legitimacy to the often-levied criticism of misogyny regarding a lot of his work. And The Killing Joke, along with his treatment of Rose Almond in V for Vendetta, and much of the treatment of female characters in Watchmen, really is hard for me to justify.

Amazing writer, but there is definitely some cringe to some of his choices.

Biggest and most valid criticism you can give Moore is that too often he makes Womens pain not about the Women.
Killing Joke is a good example but he is not alone guilty of that.
The way Barbaras injury got treated in the killing joke and after, always rubbed many people the wrong way.
Where it was more about what it mentally did to Bruce or Jim and not what it did to Barbara.

 

[Babillygunn]

Biggest and most valid criticism you can give Moore is that too often he makes Womens pain not about the Women.

I think the most glaring example of this is V for Vendetta. Everyone talks about V’s manipulation of Evey as being problematic. But to me, the entire character arc of Rose Almond is so tragic, and V’s manipulation of that character, putting an innocent victim of domestic abuse in position after position of degradation and placing her in a spiral until she eventually becomes his final “rose” to send after his enemies, is so sick and twisted that it makes V irredeemable. It doesn’t help that the last panel that you see Rose Almond in, she is being physically and mentally tortured by the government. That was her fate and she didn’t deserve it. But there is no one in the story who cares or speaks out for her. And it is hard not to attribute the silence to Moore as well. (And it is probably not a coincidence that the film version cuts Rose Almond out of the story completely.)


All that to say, I don’t think I could label Moore himself as misogynist. But so many of his female characters lack any agency at all. And it is glaring.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I'm talking about an old comic here. The killing joke. The puddle at the end symbolic meaning can be too many things. It is hard to say for sure what is meant by it. I wish there was more clarity. It is still a great story imo

The Killing Joke ties as my all-time favourite comic (along with Kingdom Come). I still have my first printing that I bought when it came out. I must have read it a hundred times.

 

[Babillygunn]

The Killing Joke ties as my all-time favourite comic (along with Kingdom Come). I still have my first printing that I bought when it came out. I must have read it a hundred times.

I always thought you were a huge CoIE guy.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I always thought you were a huge CoIE guy.

Oh, I am! It comes in very close behind.