VH1'S 100 Greatest Artists of All Time

[ChickenScratch]

So you don't find poets and poetry impressive?

Okay. So you're implying that rappers are not musicians. Are you also implying then that rap is not music?

No I don't find poetry impressive(and don't start arguing about the value of poetry, I have a degree in literature so I've heard it all). And yes I'm saying that rap is not music. As I said, it's creative, but it's closer to dub poetry than anything. Sampling music from other people's records and rhyming is not impressive to me, neither is using simple patches on a Korg keyboard or drum machine to "create" something isn't either.

As I said, I used to be paid by rappers for what I can do, which is actually play and even then they didn't have the knowledge, or vocabulary to express what they were paying me to do. No way to express the sound, feel, tone or in any way articulate what they want because they simply don't know. It's like a blind person trying to paint.

 

[HighFivingMF]

It's like a blind person trying to paint.

Except not funny.

 

[Drizzle]

Well, the Top 5 is accurate. It would be a good Top 10 if you were to replace Prince with Bob Marley. And why the **** are Hall and Oates on the list?

 

[Sawyer]

It would be if Queen was there.

 

[katie_girl09]

No I don't find poetry impressive(and don't start arguing about the value of poetry, I have a degree in literature so I've heard it all).

Am I supposed to be impressed? I have one too. So what? Having a degree in something doesn't make you all-knowing about it.

And yes I'm saying that rap is not music. As I said, it's creative, but it's closer to dub poetry than anything. Sampling music from other people's records and rhyming is not impressive to me, neither is using simple patches on a Korg keyboard or drum machine to "create" something isn't either.

It takes musical talent to use an old song to create a new one that sounds good and that people enjoy.

As I said, I used to be paid by rappers for what I can do, which is actually play and even then they didn't have the knowledge, or vocabulary to express what they were paying me to do. No way to express the sound, feel, tone or in any way articulate what they want because they simply don't know. It's like a blind person trying to paint.

So not knowing musical vocabulary means that you can't be a musician? There is far more to being an artist than knowing technical information.

Also, one very important aspect of music is rhythm. Rap has plenty of that. And if they rap in according to the rhythm of the song (as they often do) how is that not music?

 

[ChickenScratch]

You too? Where did you go to college? I don't like poetry and as I've stated before, it's an informed opinion because I've worked with the written word enough to know what I like.

I didn't say that talent is not involved, I just say it's not music. Taking samples from another song and rapping over it is like decoupage.

Yes knowing musical vocabulary is important. Just like knowing parts of speech and grammar are important in writing. If a person does not understand concepts such as point, counterpoint, statement, recapitulation, key, scale, value, meter, mode, interval, chord, inversion, circle of 5ths, then sure they can "make music" in the limited means of one who creates rhymes and samples someone who already understands these concepts. You can design and build a house, or you can paint a house someone already built. There's a huge world of knowledge and understanding between your rapper and say a person like Frank Zappa.

Sure rap has rhythm, as does dub poetry, which is what I see rap as. Music is not just rhythm and words. You are quite entitled to your opinion, but I don't see it as such. I have a bias, I work in music publishing and am a studio musician from time to time.

 

[E-Man]

Are we going through that whole, "rappers aren't real musicians" thing again? When are people going to learn that personal opinion isn't absolute, especially when dealing with something as abstract as music? Here is the denotation of music:

an art of sound in time that expresses ideas and emotions in significant forms through the elements of rhythm, melody, harmony, and color.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/music

What that basically means is that any art you do related to sound is....music!

Let's break that down even further. How do you define art?

the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/art

Art is basically any expression that is appealing. Now what is it that rappers do? They express thoughts that are accompanied by sound. Sounds a lot like music to me.

"But they don't actually make the music themselves, therefore they are not musicians."

Here is why that line of thinking fails. Rappers don't just come in and rhyme without giving a single regard to the music that accompanies them. In fact, it's quite the opposite. When a rapper goes into the studio, he/she and the producer work so that the could make sure that the rapper is in rhythm with the beat. The rapper is essentially creating a flow that enhances the beat.

Also, the beat exists solely to give the rapper a platform to express their thoughts. The only reason why the producer is there is to give the rapper a beat to rhyme to when they're rapping. Hell the rapper is the one calling the producer, and many times they dictate style the producer is going to lean towards. What about the rappers that are producers as well? Do they instantly lose their musician status when they rhyme a few bars?

 

[ChickenScratch]

If you like rap that's great man, doesn't change my opinion of it.

"Also, the beat exists solely to give the rapper a platform to express their thoughts. The only reason why the producer is there is to give the rapper a beat to rhyme to when they're rapping." Yeah, like dub poetry. Being able to sing/rap or as you say flow in time with the beat is not that crazy a feat, especially when all rap is by nature in 4/4 time. Even when subdivisions within a regular meter are really small, I've yet to hear anything that deviates from that.

 

[E-Man]

I just looked at that list, and Biggie shouldn't be rated anywhere on there. He is easily the most overrated rapper of all time. He didn't even have a high enough volume of work to be considered in the conversation, and his work isn't really earth shattering. He said some cool **** on occasion, but beyond that he's not all that special.

2Pac is overrated too. Too many people think that he's the only rapper to ever have a socially conscious song. Me Against the World was an awesome album, but it's not the only album of its ilk.

 

[ChickenScratch]

I wouldn't go far since this is based upon othe people's value judgements. Biggie was good, I prefered his work to Tupac but maybe its because he's a fellow New Yorker. Greatest I don't know but certainly influential.

 

[E-Man]

2Pac is a New Yorker too. His style wasn't really east coast though. Probably because he spent a lot of time outside of New York.

 

[ChickenScratch]

I'm not sure of people's backgrounds. I just know who I worked with and their camps when I was activly being a session player. But with Tupac's record sales I'm sure he had some impact.

 

[redmarvel]

Sade is at 50 and the Bee Gees are at 88???

According to wikipedia: The Bee Gees
- played together for 40 years
- Only Elvis Presley, The Beatles, Michael Jackson, Garth Brooks and Paul McCartney have outsold the Bee Gees
- It has been estimated that the Bee Gees' record sales total more than 200 million

Grammy Awards
• 1978 Best Pop Vocal Performance By A Group – "How Deep Is Your Love"
• 1979 Best Pop Vocal Performance By A Duo Or Group – "Saturday Night Fever"
• 1979 Best Arrangement Of Voices – "Stayin' Alive"
• 1979 Album Of The Year – "Saturday Night Fever"
• 1979 Producer Of The Year – "Saturday Night Fever"
• 1981 Best Pop Performance By A Duo Or Group With Vocal – "Guilty" (Barry Gibb with Barbra Streisand)
• 2003 Legend Award
• 2004 Hall Of Fame Award – "Saturday Night Fever"
World Music Awards
• 1997 Legend Award
American Music Awards
• 1979 Favorite Pop / Rock Band, Duo Or Group
• 1979 Favorite Soul / R&B Album – "Saturday Night Fever"
• 1980 Favorite Pop / Rock Band, Duo Or Group
• 1980 Favorite Pop / Rock Album – "Spirits Having Flown"
• 1997 International Artist Award
BRIT Awards
• 1997 Outstanding Contribution To Music
BMI (Broadcast Music Incorporated) Awards
• 2007 BMI Icons

And you wouldn't believe how many of their albums were on the charts - only 3 albums did not make the US charts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Bee_Gees

 

[Mr.Webs]

Agreed. The Bee Gees don't get enough credit. Even as a guy who wasn't a huge fan of their disco stuff, everything before and after is golden.

 

[Matt Mortem]

I didn't like their disco crap, but the Bee Gee's did have a lot of good songs outside of that

 

[Kurosawa]

Even their disco was awesome. Club music has lost a lot over the years and isn't as melodic as it once was, it's all rhythm.

 

[Heretic]

My problem with rap is simple. The artist is merely speaking words that rhyme, and more often than not have no role in the music creation. There was a time when it was vital to speak clearly in your raps, since the master of ceremonies was communicating to the audience, but the trend has turned and now many top selling rappers are barely intelligible. This would make most of them just poets with bad public speaking skills.

although if anyone criticizes Public Enemy, we will fight.

 

[OctaviusINC]

When I watched the actual countdown on VH1, Michael Jackson was listed #2 not #3.

Just sayin'.

But, yeah, it's an ok list. It's only a VH1 list that people will forget about anyway. I'd put Elvis before Prince though. I mean, I like Prince's music, but seriously? Elvis is the god damn king.

But I dig the top 3 personally. Beatles, Dylan, and MJ were artists I loved since I was a kid. And I'm glad Cash even made the list. Pretty low too.

 

[redmarvel]

I like several on the list but.....No Sinatra?

Not only him, but no B.B. King - still playing after 60 years. No Bing Crosby. No Barry White.

B.B. King

In 1987, he was inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, becoming one of the first artists to be honored by the museum.[29]
In 1990, he was awarded the National Medal of Arts.[30]
In 1991, he was awarded the National Heritage Fellowship from the NEA.[31]

A commemorative guitar pick honoring "B.B. King Day" in Portland, Maine.King was awarded the Kennedy Center Honors in 1995. This is given to recognize "the lifelong accomplishments and extraordinary talents of our nation's most prestigious artists."[32]
In 2004, the Royal Swedish Academy of Music awarded him the Polar Music Prize for his "significant contributions to the blues".[11]
On December 15, 2006, President George W. Bush awarded King the Presidential Medal of Freedom.[33]
On May 27, 2007, King was awarded an honorary doctorate in music by Brown University.[34]
On May 14, 2008, King was presented with the keys to the city of Utica, New York; and on May 18, 2008, the mayor of Portland, Maine, Edward Suslovic, declared the day "B. B. King Day" in the city. Prior to King's performance at the
Merrill Auditorium, Suslovic presented King with the keys to the city.[35]

In 2009, Time Magazine named B.B. King #3 on its list of the 10 best electric guitarists of all-time.[36]
Each year during the first week in June, a B.B. King Homecoming Festival is held in Indianola, Mississippi.[37]
A Mississippi Blues Trail marker was added for B. B. King, commemorating his birthplace.[38]
On May 29, 2010, the Sabrosa Park was renamed B.B. King Park in honor of King and the free concert he played before 20,000 people.
[edit] Grammy Awards

Graffiti. Kharkov, 2008Grammy Awards — King was given a Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award in 1987.[39] As of 2009, he has won 15 Grammy Awards, of which ten have been the Grammy award for Best Traditional Blues Album: in 2009 (for One Kind Favor), 2005 (B. B. King & Friends: 80 (album)), 2003 (for A Christmas Celebration of Hope), 2001 (for Riding with the King), 2000 (for Blues on the Bayou), 1994 (for Blues Summit), 1992 (for Live at the Apollo), 1991 (for Live at San Quentin), 1986 (for My Guitar Sings the Blues) and 1984 (for Blues 'N' Jazz). In 1982, he won the Grammy for Best Ethnic or Traditional Folk Recording (for There Must Be a Better World Somewhere). The Grammy for Best Ethnic or Traditional Folk was last given in 1986; the Grammy for Best Traditional Blues Album was first given in 1983. In 1997, he won a Grammy for Best Rock Instrumental Performance (with other artists, for "SRV Shuffle"). In 1971, he won the Grammy for Best Male R&B Vocal Performance (for "The Thrill Is Gone"). A Grammy Hall of Fame Award was given to "The Thrill is Gone" in 1998, an award given to recordings that are at least 25 years old and that have "qualitative or historical significance."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.B._King

 

[E-Man]

Damn, i just noticed that Louis Armstrong wasn't on there. I really don't like to get into these top lists because it's all subjective, but how in the blue hell could you leave off someone who is quite possibly the most influential American musician.

They don't have any other jazz greats like Miles Davis, Coltrane, Monk, Gillespie either. Considering that jazz was the first real American music art form, and many great music forms descended from it, you would think that they would pay homage to some jazz greats. Hell without jazz, almost none of these artists would sound the way they did. This is one really ****** list.

 

[ChickenScratch]

Because the list is garbage.

 

[Matt Mortem]

This list left off a lot of great artist. For Sinatra to not be in the list is insane!!!!

 

[redmarvel]

It should have been "the top 100 rock/pop/rap/reggae artists that have made music videos we can play on our show"... but I guess that title's a little long.

 

[redmarvel]

Are there any country artists in the list?

I'm beginning to think the list should have been called "The top 100 rock/pop/folk/rap/reggae artists that made videos that we can show on T.V."

 

[SpideyInATree]

Yeah, lists are always a slippery slope. However, it generates a lot of debate. This list, in my opinion, has it's ups and downs.

I'm a huge Metallica fan and they were 42? Just for the Black album alone it should have put them in the top 25 easily. They are probably one of the most influential hard rock bands of the modern era.