The Guns thread - Part 1

[Teelie]

I recently put this on Facebook and figured I'd share it here, too.

To those saying we should arm teachers, check the math.

There are around 3.2 million teachers in the US. Let's say you give them each a Glock 9MM for $600 a piece. That $1.92 billion and another $70.4 million for 20 rounds each. At least another $320 million to train them. So, just to get the program started in the public schools you're looking at over $2.3 billion spent by a government that just cut $9.2 billion from the education budget.

Yeah, that's gonna happen.

But it's guns. There's always room in a budget for guns.

 

[Webfoot Hero]

I think this is a really good start towards something that could stop future shootings:
https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/02/gun-control-republicans-consider-grvo/

 

[Sithborg]

I do look forward to how well the March For Our Lives stuff goes. And pro-gun people need to pay attention to it as well.

 

[squeekness]

There have been a lot of marches lately. Not sure what they actually accomplished, though.

 

[TheCommissioner]

flipping seats in general elections in places that are severely red

 

[Sithborg]

There have been a lot of marches lately. Not sure what they actually accomplished, though.

I would say that the likes of Weinstein, Nassar, and Roy Moore all felt the impact of the Woman's March. Do not underestimate the political energization that these marches can represent. This is really the generation that grew up with the threat of mass school shootings first clarion call. Lets see how it works out.

 

[LTuser]

teachers can't get money or deductions for their own school supplies, but lets give them guns?

yeah, that makes a ton of sense

It certainly doesn't. However, if the teacher has one of his (or her) Own, and has passed all the required training why not let them have permission to CCW on campus?

I do look forward to how well the March For Our Lives stuff goes. And pro-gun people need to pay attention to it as well.

What i want to know, is why not have one of these "march for our lives" after yet another American got killed by an illegal alien, driving without a license, without insurance, and who'd been previously deported??

 

[Sithborg]

I am sure MAAD has all you need to know about anti-drunk driving demostrations. But, I also don't think we are quite able to judge their psychology, not having grown up in the generation of active shooter drills.

 

[TheCommissioner]

I dont think youll see teachers running to carry guns to school

you must not know many teachers if you think thats a thing thats going to happen

 

[Jericholyte]

What i want to know, is why not have one of these "march for our lives" after yet another American got killed by an illegal alien, driving without a license, without insurance, and who'd been previously deported??

Isn't that march taken care of as Trump marches to Twitter to demand the wall or the travel ban, again looking to remove all because of a minority? Yet heaven forbid people try to make it harder to get a device with the ale intention of killing people.

 

[Ash J. Williams]

Ya that part always cracks me. One argument is that the soldiers would never go after fellow Americans (spoiler alert: they would) and even if that were the case the tech the US military posses means the could use almost no soldiers to get the job done if they so chose.

While I hope nothing like that ever happens since it'd be a bloodbath and probably start a civil war, do you think that soldiers would go after their own relatives? Would they resort to that kind of savagery? Even they don't, how could they could live with themselves knowing that their relatives were killed by technology that the military possesses? It'd do a number on them psychologically. Technology's not perfect after all even if it is programmed to go after who its programmed to go after. I'm not saying there would be some sort of machine uprising, but technology can act up.

I dont think youll see teachers running to carry guns to school

you must not know many teachers if you think thats a thing thats going to happen

Police departments will help out since they are eager to train and teach better ways of saving lives, but it's up to teachers set in old fashion ways to want to learn to take part. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be opposed to bringing martial arts to schools so that way everyone can learn about self-worth and self-defense. Since I was never really into sports in high school, I didn't always like having to participate in gym class, but I feel that learning martial arts would've been much more beneficial to me.

 

[Sithborg]

Here's a hint, I don't think teachers sign up for the job because they want to be bodyguards. And to be quite frank, more guns in a school is not a smart thing.

 

[Aximili86]

You could industrialize the security industry if you don't want to go the train-up-a-teacher-or-two-to-police-standards (psych/background checks included).

We have about 400 000 returned/returning veterans, a lot of them looking for work. Create an incentive for schools to get serious about this. The feds could build a few academies around the country, Iraq/Afghanistan vets could undergo some re-training and refreshing of psych checks and all, and land a good job. Win win.

You don't want to get quite Israel with all this stuff, the public's not of the same mentality, but you could definitely do something in a security sense. More than a mall cop, but not quite at the point where you have teachers carrying either. One or two designated, highly-trained, school-protection-is-my-career guys or girls per school. It's not a total fix to the problem, but can't hurt so long as you're doing it responsibly and putting these security types through pretty rigorous mental checks to land the gig.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Again... Will the GOP/Tea Party/Freedom Caucus/We Already Spend Too Much On Education wing of congress and the public be at all willing to spend the money on that? Their track record would indicate no.

 

[Donner]

This is getting ridiculous. The US would be the only first world country that uses guns as a way to combat gun violence. Putting armed guards in schools is a horrible idea. Just horrible. Find a better solution.

 

[Aximili86]

Apparently Utah does it, though I'm not sure if it's every school or by principal/administrator choice.

They say they haven't had a school shooting since '96.

*Shrugs* Food for thought I guess. I'm not entirely sure it's the way to go, but it does seem security of some type might be warranted by now.

Also, Elektra, "using guns to combat gun violence" is nonsensical? What would you do upon witnessing a shooting - call the cops, right? Get a state-sponsored authority figure with a gun on-scene pronto. I don't see the issue here, assuming you were going to put these vets or teachers through police-level psych hurdles to land the gig. You do probably need someone on-site by now, given a 5 minute or so cop response time with something like Florida is going to be too late.

 

[Donner]

Anyone that advocates for armed guards at schools needs to understand the message that would be sent to teachers and students. The US educational system is bad enough without spreading fear and paranoia throughout schools. Students won't be seen as the future of the country, but as ticking time bombs waiting to explode. How could you possibly expect teachers to foster an intelligent and welcoming environment when a guy with a gun is standing outside their classroom. It's a recipe for disaster and it's honestly disgusting to think that some people are pushing for a nuclear deterrent solution. That doesn't calm anything down.

 

[Aximili86]

School shootings spread fear & paranoia too, I'm pretty sure.

 

[Donner]

And armed guards won't make that better. Treating students like potential shooters isn't going to bring out the best in them. Find a better solution.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

Zod in heaven... The firestorm that would erupt if any of those theoretical guards were to turn their weapons on either teachers or students. Hell... We worry now about students being sexually manipulated or worse by school faculty. Imagine throwing guns into a situation like that?

 

[Aximili86]

Some students are potential shooters, though. Not many, no. But maybe it's the sacrifice we've gotta make these days.

I don't feel uncomfortable or paranoid upon seeing bomb-sniffer dogs or guys with automatic rifles patrolling at the airport. Or people checking to make sure I haven't packed a large shampoo bottle in my bag.

Sure, it sucks that it's necessary, but hey, reality. They have a pretty good argument for doing it.

 

[TheCommissioner]

You could industrialize the security industry if you don't want to go the train-up-a-teacher-or-two-to-police-standards (psych/background checks included).

We have about 400 000 returned/returning veterans, a lot of them looking for work. Create an incentive for schools to get serious about this. The feds could build a few academies around the country, Iraq/Afghanistan vets could undergo some re-training and refreshing of psych checks and all, and land a good job. Win win.

You don't want to get quite Israel with all this stuff, the public's not of the same mentality, but you could definitely do something in a security sense. More than a mall cop, but not quite at the point where you have teachers carrying either. One or two designated, highly-trained, school-protection-is-my-career guys or girls per school. It's not a total fix to the problem, but can't hurt so long as you're doing it responsibly and putting these security types through pretty rigorous mental checks to land the gig.

no, a thousand times no

I do not want to turn schools into "perimeters"

 

[DeadPresident]

Armed guards for schools...?

...or conversely, investigate and try and remedy emotionally, psychologically, and culturally dysfunctional human beings that want to mow down fellow citizens?

 

[Schlosser85]

Nope, more guns are always the answer, apparently.

 

[squeekness]

As a teacher, I wouldn't want the responsibility of having to take down an active shooter. At least not without a significant pay raise.