The Guns thread - Part 1

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Um, yes actually the reason why the US has so many guns circulating is because people are so afraid and are shaking in their boots. The society is paranoid.

Don't get me started on the 1% fallacy. Dick Cheney tried to use that as a justification for war against irrelevant countries. The same scrutiny can be applied here. Especially when you look at how many accidental shootings happen in a year.

It is absolutely terrifying to think that someone might make a mistake and be shot because a homeowner is paranoid. There have been gun owners on this site that have claimed they would shoot anyone who steps on their property without permission. I used to delivery pizza and would sometimes knock on the door of the wrong house at 9pm. In Canada, no big deal. In the US, who knows.

You remember a few years back when that lady got into a car accident, was injured, her phone didn't work, so she hobbled over to the nearest house and was promptly shot by the homeowner with a shotgun?
 
You remember a few years back when that lady got into a car accident, was injured, her phone didn't work, so she hobbled over to the nearest house and was promptly shot by the homeowner with a shotgun?

Yikes!:( That's horrible.
 
I caught bits of that meeting today. It was bizarre.

Let's see how long before Fox New swings him back.
 
Honestly, my reaction to that meeting is a big shrug. It's classic Trump. He's on camera, wants to look good. Will immediately change his mind when he talks behind closed doors. He has no convictions. He's a giant man-baby that will agree with the last person he talked to.
 
It's official, you right-wingers did it to yourselves. Trump is coming for your guns!



https://splinternews.com/trump-saying-he-wants-to-take-peoples-guns-wasnt-even-t-1823406158

We would have a revolution on our hands had Obummer ever even remotely put any of these words together in the same paragraph.

Considering that I'm still seeing nuts on FB saying the 'guvment' is coming for their guns despite Obama (the anti-christ or whatever he is these days) not being the one running things, I wonder how they'll be taking their 'savior' saying things like that.
 
If we're going to raise the age limit to 21 to buy a gun, shouldn't we do the same for people wanting to join the military?
My sentiments exactly. The age to get a driver's license in most states is 16 yet cars are more dangerous than guns.
 
This is a non-starter. Do you advocate lowering the drinking age to 18? Are you upset you can't rent a car until you are 25? And don't act like a car has the same purpose as a gun.
 
Yeah, I'm pretty fine with the 21 thing. Seems a little weird to set different weapons at different ages, being able to go buy a shotgun at 18 but 3 years higher for an AR, but whatever, it is what it is.

It'll barely do anything, but it can't hurt either.
 
In don't know if this has been posted here, but this is a radiologist, who has handled thousands of handgun wounds, and how they differed from the AR-15 wounds he saw from Parkland.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...land-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/

In a typical handgun injury, which I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ such as the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, gray bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.

I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?

The reaction in the emergency room was the same. One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semiautomatic rifle that delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. Nothing was left to repair—and utterly, devastatingly, nothing could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.

A year ago, when a gunman opened fire at the Fort Lauderdale airport with a 9 mm semiautomatic handgun, hitting 11 people in 90 seconds, I was also on call. It was not until I had diagnosed the third of the six victims who were transported to the trauma center that I realized something out of the ordinary must have happened. The gunshot wounds were the same low-velocity handgun injuries that I diagnose every day; only their rapid succession set them apart. And all six of the victims who arrived at the hospital that day survived.

Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim’s body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and the victim does not bleed to death before being transported to our care at the trauma center, chances are that we can save him. The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different: They travel at a higher velocity and are far more lethal than routine bullets fired from a handgun. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than—and imparting more than three times the energy of—a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun. An AR-15 rifle outfitted with a magazine with 50 rounds allows many more lethal bullets to be delivered quickly without reloading.

I have seen a handful of AR-15 injuries in my career. Years ago I saw one from a man shot in the back by a swat team. The injury along the path of the bullet from an AR-15 is vastly different from a low-velocity handgun injury. The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat traveling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic—moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat—and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange.

With an AR-15, the shooter does not have to be particularly accurate. The victim does not have to be unlucky. If a victim takes a direct hit to the liver from an AR-15, the damage is far graver than that of a simple handgun-shot injury. Handgun injuries to the liver are generally survivable unless the bullet hits the main blood supply to the liver. An AR-15 bullet wound to the middle of the liver would cause so much bleeding that the patient would likely never make it to the trauma center to receive our care.

One of my ER colleagues was waiting nervously for his own children outside the school. While the shooting was still in progress, the first responders were gathering up victims whenever they could and carrying them outside the building. Even as a physician trained in trauma situations, there was nothing he could do at the scene to help save the victims who had been shot with the AR-15. Most of them died on the spot; they had no fighting chance at life.

When people argue rifles like this aren't weapons of war, that they aren't military grade, remember this.
 
If we're going to raise the age limit to 21 to buy a gun, shouldn't we do the same for people wanting to join the military?

Or to drive/vote? If you say "lets raise the age for gun ownership, for safety reasons, why not do it for other things too??

And now Walmart is getting in on the fun. Raising age to buy guns and ammo to 21. Removing assault style weapons and toys from their website (though likely not their stores).

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/376154-walmart-to-raise-age-limit-on-gun-purchases

NRA vs Walmart should be fun.

Since i do lots of RPGs at conventions, i've known many different folks. one does a lot of driving FOR walmart goods.. In over 190 stores he's delivered to and shopped in, the ONLY guns he's ever seen in stores were shotguns and 30.6 hunting rifles..
And as for their online sales, i've never even SEEN an option to look up firearms on their main site..
 
If we're going to raise the age limit to 21 to buy a gun, shouldn't we do the same for people wanting to join the military?

Or to drive/vote? If you say "lets raise the age for gun ownership, for safety reasons, why not do it for other things too??

Doug, in my opinion the military is a special case as very intensive and specific weapons training is given. It’s not like going into a store and walking out with an AR-15.

Oh my God LT, you literally can’t be serious... Are you truly this dense? I can’t be sure about voting as I haven’t got access to all the statistics. But what I have gleaned from the meagre facts that I have seen?
Not one person has ever died directly from placing their vote on a ballot card.

As far as I am concerned, voting age should be 16 in the UK and not 18. I believe it is also 18 in America?

Driving should have a sensible minimum age limit, as a car has the potential to be lethal if driven badly. And before you jump on this comment LT, guns are specifically made to kill and cars are not.

Minimum driving age for the UK is 17. Perhaps it should be 18.
In the USA it is generally 16 with State exceptions here and there, I think...
 
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In don't know if this has been posted here, but this is a radiologist, who has handled thousands of handgun wounds, and how they differed from the AR-15 wounds he saw from Parkland.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...n-guns/553937/

Quote:
In a typical handgun injury, which I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ such as the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, gray bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.

I was looking at a CT scan of one of the mass-shooting victims from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, and was bleeding extensively. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?

The reaction in the emergency room was the same. One of the trauma surgeons opened a young victim in the operating room, and found only shreds of the organ that had been hit by a bullet from an AR-15, a semiautomatic rifle that delivers a devastatingly lethal, high-velocity bullet to the victim. Nothing was left to repair—and utterly, devastatingly, nothing could be done to fix the problem. The injury was fatal.

A year ago, when a gunman opened fire at the Fort Lauderdale airport with a 9 mm semiautomatic handgun, hitting 11 people in 90 seconds, I was also on call. It was not until I had diagnosed the third of the six victims who were transported to the trauma center that I realized something out of the ordinary must have happened. The gunshot wounds were the same low-velocity handgun injuries that I diagnose every day; only their rapid succession set them apart. And all six of the victims who arrived at the hospital that day survived.

Routine handgun injuries leave entry and exit wounds and linear tracks through the victim’s body that are roughly the size of the bullet. If the bullet does not directly hit something crucial like the heart or the aorta, and the victim does not bleed to death before being transported to our care at the trauma center, chances are that we can save him. The bullets fired by an AR-15 are different: They travel at a higher velocity and are far more lethal than routine bullets fired from a handgun. The damage they cause is a function of the energy they impart as they pass through the body. A typical AR-15 bullet leaves the barrel traveling almost three times faster than—and imparting more than three times the energy of—a typical 9mm bullet from a handgun. An AR-15 rifle outfitted with a magazine with 50 rounds allows many more lethal bullets to be delivered quickly without reloading.

I have seen a handful of AR-15 injuries in my career. Years ago I saw one from a man shot in the back by a swat team. The injury along the path of the bullet from an AR-15 is vastly different from a low-velocity handgun injury. The bullet from an AR-15 passes through the body like a cigarette boat traveling at maximum speed through a tiny canal. The tissue next to the bullet is elastic—moving away from the bullet like waves of water displaced by the boat—and then returns and settles back. This process is called cavitation; it leaves the displaced tissue damaged or killed. The high-velocity bullet causes a swath of tissue damage that extends several inches from its path. It does not have to actually hit an artery to damage it and cause catastrophic bleeding. Exit wounds can be the size of an orange.

With an AR-15, the shooter does not have to be particularly accurate. The victim does not have to be unlucky. If a victim takes a direct hit to the liver from an AR-15, the damage is far graver than that of a simple handgun-shot injury. Handgun injuries to the liver are generally survivable unless the bullet hits the main blood supply to the liver. An AR-15 bullet wound to the middle of the liver would cause so much bleeding that the patient would likely never make it to the trauma center to receive our care.

One of my ER colleagues was waiting nervously for his own children outside the school. While the shooting was still in progress, the first responders were gathering up victims whenever they could and carrying them outside the building. Even as a physician trained in trauma situations, there was nothing he could do at the scene to help save the victims who had been shot with the AR-15. Most of them died on the spot; they had no fighting chance at life.


When people argue rifles like this aren't weapons of war, that they aren't military grade, remember this

Quoted for truth...
 
Honestly, my reaction to that meeting is a big shrug. It's classic Trump. He's on camera, wants to look good. Will immediately change his mind when he talks behind closed doors. He has no convictions. He's a giant man-baby that will agree with the last person he talked to.

Pretty much. It's a good sound byte, but Congress certainly isn't going to jump on board with this, nor do they have a reason to, so it's pretty much grandstanding.
 
In don't know if this has been posted here, but this is a radiologist, who has handled thousands of handgun wounds, and how they differed from the AR-15 wounds he saw from Parkland.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...land-should-change-the-debate-on-guns/553937/



When people argue rifles like this aren't weapons of war, that they aren't military grade, remember this.

You know, I looked online for other guns that fire the same 5.56 round and I couldn't find any that were not military-style weapons. From. What I can tell this bullet was developed specifically for the military as a scaled down version of the 7.62 for a new combat rifle.
 
And now Kroger is getting in on the "21 to buy a gun" train.
 
Good. Raising the age won't fix everything, but it's a good start.
 
If you can buy a beer then you can buy a gun. Sounds fine.

If you aren't 'mature' enough to buy one then you shouldn't be able to buy the other. Of course I know a lot of people who can buy beer that I wouldn't trust with a gun. Including me since I have zero knowledge or training about guns.
 
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