The Horror Thread - Part 5

[Peyton Westlake]

Saw the Rob Zombie Halloween 're-make' for the first time last night and wasn't all that bad (don't kill me), okay, not as strong or as iconic as the original but thought it did well in some ways.

Gave 'meaning' to why Michael behaves the way he does, in Carpenter's he is unrelenting, with little reason or emotion to why he kills, in the remake, every one of his victims shows a pre-death moment of spite / hatred / action towards Micheal before being killed.

Some might say this makes him a less 'chilling' character, diluted some how.

I found it in the 2007 version to give grounding and depth to why a child would end up like he did when surrounded with so much loathing, contempt and unhappiness in his life.

I did find the violence a little OTT, unsubtle and visually showed too much, Carpenter showed and let us imagine.

Not as strong as the classic original obviously, but way better than I'd read about or been convinced by others it was not a good film. I thought it had merit. 6/10

I thought making Michael a product of some white trash family was the easiest & most horrible route to take for his past. Way too predictable, a boy from a broken home allows him to become a killer. It took ALL the imagination for years what everyone's idea was about his history.

 

[Thundarr]

I thought making Michael a product of some white trash family was the easiest & most horrible route to take for his past. Way too predictable, a boy from a broken home allows him to become a killer. It took ALL the imagination for years what everyone's idea was about his history.

Agreed. John Carpenter purposefully didn't give an explanation as to why Michael felt compelled to kill, at least nothing more in depth than "What was behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply evil." That was all that was needed.

Not only did Rob Zombie take away everything about Michael Myers that made him scary, he heaped on every psychological torture that would turn an average kid into a psycho killer.

Dead parent? Check. (His dad was dead)

Physically/emotionally/psychologically abusive parent/guardian? Check. (His stepfather)

Neglectful guardian? Check. (His sister abandoned her babysitting duties to have sex)

Bullied at school? Check.

Early exposure to sex warping his perspective on things of a sexual nature? Check. (His mother was a stripper, and possibly a prostitute, and his sister has a reputation for being the school harlot)

Torture, kill, and mutilate animals? Check.

Hell, I'm surprised RZ didn't make Michael and Judith's dad their mom's brother or first cousin. Or showed scenes of Michael wetting his bed and setting fire to his neighbors' garage. That's about the only thing missing from his redneck piece of trash of a movie.

 

[The Joker]

Agreed. John Carpenter purposefully didn't give an explanation as to why Michael felt compelled to kill, at least nothing more in depth than "What was behind that boy's eyes was purely and simply evil." That was all that was needed.

Not only did Rob Zombie take away everything about Michael Myers that made him scary, he heaped on every psychological torture that would turn an average kid into a psycho killer.

Dead parent? Check. (His dad was dead)

Physically/emotionally/psychologically abusive parent/guardian? Check. (His stepfather)

Neglectful guardian? Check. (His sister abandoned her babysitting duties to have sex)

Bullied at school? Check.

Early exposure to sex warping his perspective on things of a sexual nature? Check. (His mother was a stripper, and possibly a prostitute, and his sister has a reputation for being the school harlot)

Torture, kill, and mutilate animals? Check.

Hell, I'm surprised RZ didn't make Michael and Judith's dad their mom's brother or first cousin. Or showed scenes of Michael wetting his bed and setting fire to his neighbors' garage. That's about the only thing missing from his redneck piece of trash of a movie.

Hear hear

Some characters are just more effective as a mystery. The unknown is scary. I equate Michael Myers to the Joker in the regard. The Joker works best as a psychopath with no known identity or background. He is just the Joker. An absolute.

Same as Michael's evil needs no explanation. What Zombie did just waters him down and completely takes away his edge.

 

[Victarion]

I haven't seen Rob Zombie's Halloween movies, so I'm not saying what he did was better or worse than the original series. If your character is a serial-killing psychopath, and that's all that you see on screen, does that not leave them a bit flat? Unless you take care to lay on some subtext to go with the killings (such as the "type" or "class" of victims or method of killing) while omitting a direct explanation of the killer's background.

What do you all think of that M. Night movie that's coming out about the grandparents? I'm not sure what to make of it from the trailers.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

I haven't seen Rob Zombie's Halloween movies, so I'm not saying what he did was better or worse than the original series. If your character is a serial-killing psychopath, and that's all that you see on screen, does that not leave them a bit flat? Unless you take care to lay on some subtext to go with the killings (such as the "type" or "class" of victims or method of killing) while omitting a direct explanation of the killer's background.

For Michael Myers it works better to leave it a mystery. The whole point of his character was to across as an unstoppable force. He seems otherworldly. I don't want to call Rob Zombie's human, but I guess he's more humanized than Carpenter's and it was ultimately a bad thing.

What do you all think of that M. Night movie that's coming out about the grandparents? I'm not sure what to make of it from the trailers.

I'm not too sure either. It's supposed to be found footage too right? I'll probably watch it, but I'm not expecting much

 

[Thundarr]

For Michael Myers it works better to leave it a mystery. The whole point of his character was to across as an unstoppable force. He seems otherworldly. I don't want to call Rob Zombie's human, but I guess he's more humanized than Carpenter's and it was ultimately a bad thing.

Exactly ! An intricate back story might work well for Freddy Krueger and Pamela or Jason Voorhees, but it completely ruins what makes Michael Myers such a unique and frightening character. He doesn't kill because his mommy was a stripper. He doesn't kill because his step dad abused him. He doesn't kill because his sister would rather have 60 seconds of sex than take him trick or treating. He doesn't kill because he was bullied at school. He kills because he's evil. Just pure evil.

That's what makes him so frightening. Rob Zombie's Michael Myers you can see coming from a mile away. You would have to be seven different flavors of stupid not to realize that a child raised in that kind of environment is going to be severely f**ked up when he grows up, and likely very violent. But with John Carpenter's Michael Myers, it just comes out of nowhere. This seemingly sweet, normal little boy just out of the blue decides he's going to kill. Evil can come in any size and shape, be born into any environment, can wear any face. Even the face of a small, quiet, unassuming child from a nice normal family. THAT is a scary thought.

I'm not too sure either. It's supposed to be found footage too right? I'll probably watch it, but I'm not expecting much

I must admit, the trailers do look promising. Maybe M Night Shyamalamadingdong is getting his mojo back.

But then again, I thought the trailers to The Last Airbender looked promising.

 

[Majik1387]

Say what you will about the white trash factor of Halloween remake, but Sherri Moon Zombie was only a stripper, not 'possibly' a prostitute.

 

[Thundarr]

Say what you will about the white trash factor of Halloween remake, but Sherri Moon Zombie was only a stripper, not 'possibly' a prostitute.

I read somewhere (I think it was either IMDb or Wikipedia, but it might have been another site) that the original script hinted that Michael's mom moonlit as a prostitute when she wasn't stripping. Rob Zombie cut it because he thought that it would be "too much baggage" for Michael's back story (the man that wrote the deleted rape scene from the directors cut thought that it was "too much", stop and marvel at THAT concept for a moment). so whether or not it was shown in the movie, at some point it was actually in the screenplay.

 

[Victarion]

I must admit, the trailers do look promising. Maybe M Night Shyamalamadingdong is getting his mojo back.

But then again, I thought the trailers to The Last Airbender looked promising.

I can't get a read on the trailers for that one, but I head it was getting good reviews...I think.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Hey, i'll welcome the return of M. Night anyday so I hope it's good. It's been a year of movies that were surprisingly better than expected for me. Hopefully it pulls a 'The Gift' and the trailer is just underwhelming

 

[jonathancrane]

I am really excited about RZ's new film, 31. Only problem is it comes out next year.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

I am really excited about RZ's new film, 31. Only problem is it comes out next year.

I just looked it up and I love the concept, I just hope he executes it well

 

[jonathancrane]

If the story disappoints, at least it will be a nicely designed film. I chipped in on the fanbacked campaign and have a signed concept art poster hanging above my desk.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I was gonna say that Rob Zombie does really well with his own ideas but then I remembered that The Lords of Salem was a thing.

Still really excited about about 31

 

[jonathancrane]

I read somewhere that there was a lot of behind-the-scenes tensions that prevented LOS from arriving as the film Zombie intended. It's unverified, tho.

 

[Victarion]

I read somewhere that there was a lot of behind-the-scenes tensions that prevented LOS from arriving as the film Zombie intended. It's unverified, tho.

What kind of changes were made between the concept and the finished movie?

 

[jonathancrane]

What kind of changes were made between the concept and the finished movie?

A few of them:

Rob Zombie:
There seems to be a misconception about the people that were cut out, that they had these huge parts. Barbara Crampton and Sid [Haig] both worked one day. They were tiny roles to begin with. Sid’s part and Michael Berryman’s part were going to be bigger, but that whole part of the movie got all f-ed up because we ran out of time and Richard Lynch passed away. I had to edit him out of the movie. That was sort of a different problem to solve.

The one thing to drive you crazy on a movie like this, because we shot for 22 days, is you figure, “S- I wish I had known I wasn’t going to use that stuff, because I wouldn’t have wasted my time filming it. I could have put more time into the other things I wish I had time for.”

I cannot link the article due to the vulgarity. But, its on Fangoria's site.....

 

[StarLord]

I always thought after seeing The Devil's Rejects, that Rob would have been better suited to a Texas Chainsaw remake/sequel, rather than Halloween.

 

[Thundarr]

I always thought after seeing The Devil's Rejects, that Rob would have been better suited to a Texas Chainsaw remake/sequel, rather than Halloween.

I think I had said the same thing on one of the previous versions of this thread. House of 1000 Corpses/The Devils Rejects and Texas Chainsaw Massacre have very similar story lines. Just add cannibalism and Leatherface to the former and you've got yourself the latter. But when it comes to a movie like Halloween, RZ is an axe when what you need is a scalpel.

 

[jonathancrane]

I'll take his two Halloween films over the films that followed Halloween III any day.

 

[redhawk23]

I thought making Michael a product of some white trash family was the easiest & most horrible route to take for his past. Way too predictable, a boy from a broken home allows him to become a killer. It took ALL the imagination for years what everyone's idea was about his history.

Beats whatever cult crap the sequels came up with. There never should have been more than one film about Michael Myers

 

[redhawk23]

I think I had said the same thing on one of the previous versions of this thread. House of 1000 Corpses/The Devils Rejects and Texas Chainsaw Massacre have very similar story lines. Just add cannibalism and Leatherface to the former and you've got yourself the latter. But when it comes to a movie like Halloween, RZ is an axe when what you need is a scalpel.

Its not so much that House of a 1000 Corpses is similar to Texas Chainsaw Massacre, and more of a matter that is pretty much the same movie as Texas Chainsaw 2 in everything from plot to tone to aesthetic to even featuring Bill Mosley. The only thing it didn't manage to borrow was the earlier films' wit.

I caught Texas Chainsaw 2 at a midnight show last year and it was a bizarre experience after watching House of 1000 Corpses for a decade.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I'll take his two Halloween films over the films that followed Halloween III any day.

this this this

Beats whatever cult crap the sequels came up with. There never should have been more than one film about Michael Myers

Also this.

****ing haaaaaate the curse of thorn stuff.

 

[redhawk23]

Those quotes from Rob Zombie about the Lords of Salem link up with earlier comments he made about outright not getting to film a large chunk of his planned ending and his last ditch effort to get more money by publishing the novelization.

The film sputters out into a montage because they had to.

Its a shame because there's a lot to like about that movie.

 

[redhawk23]

Just got done watching "We Are Still Here" on demand from Amazon. Its a pretty well put together film about a couple who recently lost their son being essentially offered as sacrifice to the spirits that haunt their new house.

Pretty good acting, just enough story and a lot of good monster effects and gore.

7/10 worth checking out.