The Avengers The "I Believe In Mark Ruffalo!" Support Thread

[Spider-ManHero12]

I just hope Hulk doesnt get the shaft in this. That's my only worry. He's my 2nd favorite Avenger after Cap and I hope he gets his time to shine...hopefully leading to a sequel

I don't think he'll get the shaft. I trust in Whedon.

 

[wobbly]

Afaik, the only time the comic artists deliberately tried to make the Hulk resemble Banner on a regular basis was during the Professor Hulk phase, as that was a required change for that merged persona (he had Banners intelligence, the Green Hulks strength and the Gray Hulks attitude).

Kirby sort of drew the Hulk to resemble Banner in his first few panels, but by the issues end and from then of he was going for a Boris Karloff/Frankenstein Monster type look.

 

[Zionite]

Love to see the Interactions btw Hulk and Loki.I can see Loki trying to control the Hulk to use as aweapon against the one avenger he fears-Thor.My guess is that Loki places a spell on Banner halfway through the film that causes him to slowly once again loose control of his Hulk abilities.This culminates in a tragic showdowm btw Hulk and Thor

 

[Obi-Ron]

Tragic for Thor fans maybe.

 

[Herolee10]

I wonder if the chances of seeing a direct sequel to TIH will be great if Mark's performance as the Hulk is well received by the GA and professional critics?

 

[Rock Sexton]

I wonder if the chances of seeing a direct sequel to TIH will be great if Mark's performance as the Hulk is well received by the GA and professional critics?

Obviously that is something they're going to look at.

Personally, I don't feel as though "The Hulk starring Mark Ruffalo" is a big theater draw. I think he's more suited in the ensemble that we're getting.

 

[Herolee10]

Obviously that is something they're going to look at.

Personally, I don't feel as though "The Hulk starring Mark Ruffalo" is a big theater draw. I think he's more suited in the ensemble that we're getting.

That is the sad and unfortunate truth that we're currently looking at. Unless they're able to really impress audiences with his performance and with the CGI usage of how they present the Hulk in a Avatar like way, I don't see Hulk getting his own film for a long while.

 

[Doc Ock]

I don't think he'll get the shaft. I trust in Whedon.

I do too. Hulk is my favorite Avenger so I hope to see a great Hulk.

 

[Doc Samson]

Of course he was...but will Marvel make that apparent on the big screen, or will they push him to the background since he did not make as much money as the other Avengers' solo movies (sans Cap)?

If their smart (which I think they are) they'll recognize this as yet another opportunity to drum up interest and do the character justice.

You think Al Milgrom is the greatest Hulk artist of all time?
Really?

Even so, in the example you showed, the jaw line doesn't line up, the brow doesn't line up, the noses are WAY off (in size, placement, and structure), the eyes are off, as are the cheekbones, teeth, and even ears.

Him and Sal Buscema are 1 and 1A for me. I think their styles are actually quite similar. What's wrong with Al?

Aside from that though, there is a resemblance between those two in that image I posted, I never said they should be twins. I think the Hulk looks better the more neanderthal-ish they make him, but like I said, Sal Buscema had no issues incorporating both elements to great effect. And, dare I say, Al too

 

[Dark Raven]

If their smart (which I think they are) they'll recognize this as yet another opportunity to drum up interest and do the character justice.



Him and Sal Buscema are 1 and 1A for me. I think their styles are actually quite similar. What's wrong with Al?

Aside from that though, there is a resemblance between those two in that image I posted, I never said they should be twins. I think the Hulk looks better the more neanderthal-ish they make him, but like I said, Sal Buscema had no issues incorporating both elements to great effect. And, dare I say, Al too

Sal and Al's styles aren't really all that similar at all. Al's style looks a bit childish at times, for want of a better phrase, and rather messy. I never liked his work on Hulk, West Coast Avengers or other books he touched. He was one of my worst artists.

Sal, on the other hand, drew a much better Hulk, and was pretty good at most characters in the Marvel universe. Whenever I saw his name in the credits as a guest artist, I always knew the issue would be in good hands.

Besides, that image you posted from #241 might have a cover by Al Milgrom, but that's right smack in the middle of Sal Buscema's run. Sal is the interior artist. Al's run only started from #320 onwards. He covered the mindless, Banner-less Hulk and reappearance of the grey Hulk (but before the Joe Fixit persona emerged). His Hulk is very different to Sal's and the two simply do not compare. His run on the book isn't even all that long, and his work is rather pedestrian at best, and certainly nothing outstanding. I'm not sure how you can say he is the best Hulk artist, or even joint with Sal. Are you sure you aren't just looking at the Al Milgrom cover from #241 and associating it with the interior artist (Sal Buscema), merging them into one and the same?

The following is typical of Al Milgrom's style and Hulk:

None of that looks like Sal Buscema's Hulk. Al's Hulk always looks chunky, as do his other characters. Sal's Hulk looks more streamlined and iconic. It's almost the difference in build between the Ang Lee (2003) Hulk and the 2008 TIH models.

 

[ArtTeacher]

Wow, Dark Raven--you really know your Hulk (and artists)!

Thank you for writing that--it saves me the time--it's like you took the words right out of my mouth!

Are you sure you aren't just looking at the Al Milgrom cover from #241 and associating it with the interior artist (Sal Buscema), merging them into one and the same?

This is exactly what I suspected, which is why I asked for clarification on Al Milgrom being his favorite (since the issue shown was right in the middle of Sal's iconic run).
Of course I realize that everyone's tastes are different and what 1000 people hate, one will love and vice-versa. But I asked for the very reason you stated. Sal's Banner didn't look like his Hulk, but Al Milgrom's Banner looked even less like his Hulk (in the face and also the body), which is why I thought it was odd to use Milgrom as an example of an artist that did that.
Now Whiskey Tango can sleep peacefully tonight, knowing the why behind my question.

Furthermore, back in those days, John Romita, Sr. was the senior art director at Marvel...he created templates that artists would refer to (especially when it came to images used in marketing/merchandise). The edict was to have some uniformity in the images (similar to how Mickey Mouse usually looks the same on the packaging of most Disney-licensed toys, etc.). In other words, Marvel wanted the various merchandise that came out to have some consistency in the look of the characters. Per that edict, the Hulk looked like...the Hulk, not Banner. The edict was not, "Hey, put a little more Banner in that Hulk, will ya? He doesn't look Bannerish-enough."

Which further backs my point that there is absolutely no good reason to expend any effort/budget in making the Hulk look more like Mark Ruffalo.

 

[Gamma Ra]

If anyone has seen the latest episode of the avengers: earths mightiest heroes , the relationship between cap and hulk is what I want to see in avengers.

I don't have it, my friend.



Great points, as usual. Everyone knows of the character, but not everyone really understands him (especially if most of their exposure comes from when he guest-stars in other titles...I find that when that happens, he's written as a plot-device, not a character).

I think I quoted a portion of that saying from something you said. t:

Thanks and agreed with your plot device statement my friend. I think that idea stems from the television show.
What sickens me with his guest appearances, is when he's thrown in a battle and the writer doesn't have his incarnation, characterization or syntax correct in that point in time.

Hulk needs to actually interact with other characters beyond growling and animalistic curiosity, if Marvel Studios wants to capitalize off him.

 

[Doc Samson]

Sal and Al's styles aren't really all that similar at all. Al's style looks a bit childish at times, for want of a better phrase, and rather messy. I never liked his work on Hulk, West Coast Avengers or other books he touched. He was one of my worst artists.

Sal, on the other hand, drew a much better Hulk, and was pretty good at most characters in the Marvel universe. Whenever I saw his name in the credits as a guest artist, I always knew the issue would be in good hands.

Besides, that image you posted from #241 might have a cover by Al Milgrom, but that's right smack in the middle of Sal Buscema's run. Sal is the interior artist. Al's run only started from #320 onwards. He covered the mindless, Banner-less Hulk and reappearance of the grey Hulk (but before the Joe Fixit persona emerged). His Hulk is very different to Sal's and the two simply do not compare. His run on the book isn't even all that long, and his work is rather pedestrian at best, and certainly nothing outstanding. I'm not sure how you can say he is the best Hulk artist, or even joint with Sal. Are you sure you aren't just looking at the Al Milgrom cover from #241 and associating it with the interior artist (Sal Buscema), merging them into one and the same?

The following is typical of Al Milgrom's style and Hulk:

None of that looks like Sal Buscema's Hulk. Al's Hulk always looks chunky, as do his other characters. Sal's Hulk looks more streamlined and iconic. It's almost the difference in build between the Ang Lee (2003) Hulk and the 2008 TIH models.

Wow, Dark Raven--you really know your Hulk (and artists)!

Thank you for writing that--it saves me the time--it's like you took the words right out of my mouth!

This is exactly what I suspected, which is why I asked for clarification on Al Milgrom being his favorite (since the issue shown was right in the middle of Sal's iconic run).
Of course I realize that everyone's tastes are different and what 1000 people hate, one will love and vice-versa. But I asked for the very reason you stated. Sal's Banner didn't look like his Hulk, but Al Milgrom's Banner looked even less like his Hulk (in the face and also the body), which is why I thought it was odd to use Milgrom as an example of an artist that did that.
Now Whiskey Tango can sleep peacefully tonight, knowing the why behind my question.

Furthermore, back in those days, John Romita, Sr. was the senior art director at Marvel...he created templates that artists would refer to (especially when it came to images used in marketing/merchandise). The edict was to have some uniformity in the images (similar to how Mickey Mouse usually looks the same on the packaging of most Disney-licensed toys, etc.). In other words, Marvel wanted the various merchandise that came out to have some consistency in the look of the characters. Per that edict, the Hulk looked like...the Hulk, not Banner. The edict was not, "Hey, put a little more Banner in that Hulk, will ya? He doesn't look Bannerish-enough."

Which further backs my point that there is absolutely no good reason to expend any effort/budget in making the Hulk look more like Mark Ruffalo.

I mean this as no disrespect (I've certainly agreed with both of you guys on things before I'm sure of it) but I'm more than slightly offended that:

1)
You would question my knowledge of who Al & Sal are

and

2)
You would try to act as if my opinion is invalid, it's my opinion. I like Al Milgrom, I think his Hulk is very reminiscent of Sal Buscema's and I also think his style is sort of in the same vein of John Byrne, who happens to be my favorite artist of all time along with Art Adams. Sue me, I like what I like.

Maybe I'm partial because some of Al's run (and to the same extent Steve Geiger) with the Rick Hulk and the reemergence of the gray Hulk, were some of my favorite issues as a child.

My first Hulk comic ever was the battle between him & the Absorbing man on the Island where Creel grabs Bruce's leg and traps him under the sand, and he freaks out, which Sal drew.

Trust me, I know who they are but as a kid, I absolutely mixed their hulks up all the time, I'm guilty of that for sure. I actually used to own that issue I posted the cover of, so I apologize for that mishap, but I'm surprised I seem to be the only one who feels that way.

You can't tell me this:

Is really that much different from this:

 

[Dark Raven]

I mean this as no disrespect (I've certainly agreed with both of you guys on things before I'm sure of it) but I'm more than slightly offended that:

1)
You would question my knowledge of who Al & Sal are

and

2)
You would try to act as if my opinion is invalid, it's my opinion. I like Al Milgrom, I think his Hulk is very reminiscent of Sal Buscema's and I also think his style is sort of in the same vein of John Byrne, who happens to be my favorite artist of all time along with Art Adams. Sue me, I like what I like.

Maybe I'm partial because some of Al's run (and to the same extent Steve Geiger) with the Rick Hulk and the reemergence of the gray Hulk, were some of my favorite issues as a child.

My first Hulk comic ever was the battle between him & the Absorbing man on the Island where Creel grabs Bruce's leg and traps him under the sand, and he freaks out, which Sal drew.

Trust me, I know who they are but as a kid, I absolutely mixed their hulks up all the time, I'm guilty of that for sure. I actually used to own that issue I posted the cover of, so I apologize for that mishap, but I'm surprised I seem to be the only one who feels that way.

You can't tell me this:

Is really that much different from this:

First off, you're posting a pic of the Hulk that is not characteristic at all of Al Milgrom's Hulk to prove your point, if that is even his work. I can go through my entire Hulk collection and grab scans from the Al Milgrom period and you'll see his Hulk looks completely different.

If that picture of Hulk above is indeed by Al Milgrom, I can tell you straight away that it's definitely not his finished inks over the pencils. Al's finished pencils do not look like that. An inker greatly influences the way a finished piece of art will look and can completely change the appearance. Those inks almost look like Bob Layton's style just from the technique he uses and some very characteristic hallmarks about it (eg the crosshatch on his biceps, near his ribcage/ above his abs among other things). I would hazard a guess the inks might be by him. Layton has a very sleek, refined style which is what I'm seeing here, and is not something you'd associate with Milgrom. Layton is a prime example of an inker who changes the look of a penciler so that the artist looks much better than he really is.

I have hundreds of examples of Al Milgrom's art from different comics, and I know his art doesn't look like the above, nor does it look like Sal Buscema's or John Byrne's. Bryne had a very distinctive style, which is definitely different to Milgrom's. You couldn't really confuse the two, especially since Byrne's Hulk run came just before Milgrom's, and their Hulks looked very different.

And Sal's Hulk is very distinctive too, and has certain hallmarks. I wouldn't have immediately thought the above image was by Sal. It's of a 70s Hulk, that's for sure, but it's not quite Sal. Even the Marvel Legends Face Off Hulk, which people claim is Sal Buscema's Hulk in figure form isn't quite Sal.

 

[Norm3]

I'm not ripping on it; the point was, the left side of the face (Banner) looks nothing like the right side (Hulk). Any "resemblance" is that they both have eyes, a mouth, ears, etc.



Of course they *can* do this--my point is, why would they? They never have in the comics.
They didn't redesign Spider-Man's mask to make it look more like Tobey Maguire.
It's not like the audience can ~only~ believe that a man can turn into a green monster if and only if he resembles the original actor enough.
Instead of spending CGI money on redesigning him to look like Ruffalo (thereby making it even MORE of a point to the audience that it isn't Ed Norton), just make the Hulk we've already seen (2008's design) look that much more ingrained into the environment and natural when interacting with other characters.



Whiskey Tango still has a crush on me, while adding nothing to the thread (you know...that thing he accuses others of doing)--film at 1:52 PM.

Theres no need for the Hulk to look like Ruff.

 

[Doc Samson]

First off, you're posting a pic of the Hulk that is not characteristic at all of Al Milgrom's Hulk to prove your point, if that is even his work. I can go through my entire Hulk collection and grab scans from the Al Milgrom period and you'll see his Hulk looks completely different.

If that picture of Hulk above is indeed by Al Milgrom, I can tell you straight away that it's definitely not his finished inks over the pencils. Al's finished pencils do not look like that. An inker greatly influences the way a finished piece of art will look and can completely change the appearance. Those inks almost look like Bob Layton's style just from the technique he uses and some very characteristic hallmarks about it (eg the crosshatch on his biceps, near his ribcage/ above his abs among other things). I would hazard a guess the inks might be by him. Layton has a very sleek, refined style which is what I'm seeing here, and is not something you'd associate with Milgrom. Layton is a prime example of an inker who changes the look of a penciler so that the artist looks much better than he really is.

I have hundreds of examples of Al Milgrom's art from different comics, and I know his art doesn't look like the above, nor does it look like Sal Buscema's or John Byrne's. Bryne had a very distinctive style, which is definitely different to Milgrom's. You couldn't really confuse the two, especially since Byrne's Hulk run came just before Milgrom's, and their Hulks looked very different.

And Sal's Hulk is very distinctive too, and has certain hallmarks. I wouldn't have immediately thought the above image was by Sal. It's of a 70s Hulk, that's for sure, but it's not quite Sal. Even the Marvel Legends Face Off Hulk, which people claim is Sal Buscema's Hulk in figure form isn't quite Sal.

This is all well and good, but I'm still struggling to see why your attempting to disprove my opinion, lol. Geez, it's not that serious, I feel the way I feel and that's pretty much it. I don't need it validated or cross referenced, I personally think his style when drawing the Hulk is somewhat reminiscent of Sal Buscema, bottomline. You posted your own pics, to me, those don't look all that different from Sal, and they certainly don't look all that different from Byrne IMO.

Let's remember too, that every artist has different periods. As I stated before, Art Adams is my favorite of all time, but I wouldn't dare compare his work on Longshot to his X-men period. Likewise, I don't particularly care for Todd Mcfarlane, but his Spiderman is the most iconic for me. Milgrom's stuff on Spiderman and some other books were pretty wretched at times, I get that, but I like his Hulk nonetheless. I don't like Frank Miller as an artist, but I thought his Daredevil stuff and TDKR art were awesome. It's simply about preference. If you notice, most of the guys I mention and like are pretty much all the same time period, which could be why I have a soft spot for them. It was my generation, I won't apologize for liking what I like, but we can go on and on and on.....

Back on topic, the original topic, I do think making the Hulk look somewhat like the actor goes a long way towards making him realistic. The mannerisms, the emotions, all that comes from real people, and when you do it under the veil of the monstrous Hulk features, it makes the illusion more complete.

Put it like this, (and once again this is my opinion) the best scene in either of the Hulk movies was this right here:

The emotion and expression in this scene, as we see the Hulk go from anger at what he first perceives to be another threat, then to embarrassment as he realizes it's Betty who's come to see what he's done, is all because of the fact that we can see Banner (or Bana) in his face, we can feel that emotion the same way we could in Avatar, because it's being drawn from real people.

I'm not saying it should be a twin, I never said that, I love the huge brow, the big jaw, the gorilla-like features (which once again I think Sal & yes Al did very well) but at the same time you could still see Banner in there. I don't know how many times Buscema has done the split panel transformation sequence and you can clearly see the similarities. I don't think it does anything but help with making the character seem like a living breathing creature.

I don't think at any time in TIH did I feel like the Hulk was actually in the environment, and it wasn't just for lack of technical trickery, it's because he looked like a plastic figurine with zero real emotion in his face or eyes that felt palpable.

 

[Rock Sexton]

Theres no need for the Hulk to look like Ruff.

Precisely.

 

[flickchick85]

The Hulk already looks more like Ruffalo than Norton to me, so I agree, no need to change it.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

Sal and Al's styles aren't really all that similar at all. Al's style looks a bit childish at times, for want of a better phrase, and rather messy. I never liked his work on Hulk, West Coast Avengers or other books he touched. He was one of my worst artists.

Sal, on the other hand, drew a much better Hulk, and was pretty good at most characters in the Marvel universe. Whenever I saw his name in the credits as a guest artist, I always knew the issue would be in good hands.

Besides, that image you posted from #241 might have a cover by Al Milgrom, but that's right smack in the middle of Sal Buscema's run. Sal is the interior artist. Al's run only started from #320 onwards. He covered the mindless, Banner-less Hulk and reappearance of the grey Hulk (but before the Joe Fixit persona emerged). His Hulk is very different to Sal's and the two simply do not compare. His run on the book isn't even all that long, and his work is rather pedestrian at best, and certainly nothing outstanding. I'm not sure how you can say he is the best Hulk artist, or even joint with Sal. Are you sure you aren't just looking at the Al Milgrom cover from #241 and associating it with the interior artist (Sal Buscema), merging them into one and the same?

The following is typical of Al Milgrom's style and Hulk:

None of that looks like Sal Buscema's Hulk. Al's Hulk always looks chunky, as do his other characters. Sal's Hulk looks more streamlined and iconic. It's almost the difference in build between the Ang Lee (2003) Hulk and the 2008 TIH models.

Nice post, but the last three pictures don't show up for me. I just see Red X.

 

[Cyclonus]

Marvel should just keep the Hulk look from the last Incredible Hulk movie, nuff said.

 

[Brian Braddock]

Agreed.

Only with an improved skin texture, less stirations in the chest [is a must for me] and a smaller mouth [when roaring]. Those were my only dislikes about the TIH design.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm not expecting much from the Hulk in terms of interactions.

 

[TheIncredibleSk]

I totally believe in Mark. He's a great actor to me.

 

[Gamma Ra]

Marvel should just keep the Hulk look from the last Incredible Hulk movie, nuff said.

This about covers it all.

 

[Norm3]

The Hulk rarely was given good artists. I suffered through Herb Trimp and Sal B a poor version of his great brother John B. When J. Byrne came along i was thrilled but that was short lived and McFarline was ruined by Al Milgroms inking in the begining of his run on Hulk. In order for me to see good Hulk art i had to collect his appearance in other comics