The Iran Thread

[Raiden]

It is our job to make America safer. A democratic Iran makes America safer.

The time to act in Iran is not now - but if the protests continue, if the people of Iran continue to act then escalation WILL happen. When it does, America should do what is necessary to protect the people of Iran.

The problem with that is that if America does get actively involved, with funds and support for the opposition, it will just play into Achmadinajad's hands, and he will discredit the whole movement by declaring that it was U.S., not the Iranian people, who wanted to use the election to oppose the government. I think it's a very tricky situation and U.S. cannot plunge into this without thinking it through.

 

[StorminNorman]

The problem with that is that if America does get actively involved, with funds and support for the opposition, it will just play into Achmadinajad's hands, and he will discredit the whole movement by declaring that it was U.S., not the Iranian people, who wanted to use the election to oppose the government. I think it's a very tricky situation and U.S. cannot plunge into this without thinking it through.

Achmadinajad's opinion of the movement doesn't mean anything, he is already trying to discredit the whole movement and the leaders of Iran are going to accuse American intervention no matter if we do or do not.

Look at the streets in Iran, look at the people protesting. Any rational Iranian is not going to look at that and see an American staged event.

Since America would be fighting for the voice of the majority in Iran, there is little danger in trampling states sovereignty.

 

[Paradyme]

I was listening to Neal Boortz and his call screener, Belinda, said that her Iranian friend just talked to his mother who is in Iran (I know a friend of a friend thing) and she said the dead that is being reported is inaccurate and its more in the hundreds of dead. She said the hospitals are in complete mayhem and she firmly believes this is the next Revolution.

 

[Timstuff]

Yeah, I'm also in agreement with the President on this issue. I know that some GOP senators are criticizing him for it but I think it's the right thing to do.

I also agree with the president on the issue. I don't like what I'm seeing happen in Iran, but I think this is something we cannot interfere with on the official level. It's just plain not our place to meddle with how other nations run their governments, up to the point where they become a danger to other nations.

If Iran's reformist movement were planning to stage a serious coupe against the fascist theocracy though, and some governments in the West accidentally allowed some intel, supplies, and weapons to slip into their hands in a hush-hush scenario, I wouldn't complain.

 

[Marx]

It's a very slippery slope. On one hand, President Obama should take a harder approach in support of the Iranian people. On the other hand, if he pushes too hard, the hardlines in Iran will spin the uprising into 'another US-sponsored coup'.

 

[Nivek]

Considering that we have U.S. Forces that flank east & west Iran, we really need to play this smart. I don't want this country getting more of it's military bogged down in another middle eastern quagmire.

 

[Dark Vigilante]

I think America should bide its time before interfering, but always be prepared to do so.

The last thing we need, however, is a covert war in Iran.

If, and when, we act - it needs to be all over the TV. It needs to be publicized and it needs to be formal. With our history in Iran, we cannot use the CIA to incite riots and promote disorder - our action must be more straight forward.

As long as the Iranians continue to fill the sweeps, the government will continue to strike back. I expect them to go to far. When they do, we should be ready to go in.

I definitley agree. The sort of covert war used in the 50's and 60's against Iran, Cuba, etc. is outdated by today's standards. Communication travels too fast to keep such an operation invisible. But, I agree, if we can somehow manipulate information in Iran...through somehow getting control of their SMS systems for a brief window of time...or mass e-mailing/ direct intrusion into personal computers. If tomorrow morning, every Iranian with a computer or cell phone woke up with the horrrible video of Neda's death quietly downloaded onto it, I gaurentee that within a week the Ayatollah would be out on his extremist ass.

 

[Dark Vigilante]

It's a very slippery slope. On one hand, President Obama should take a harder approach in support of the Iranian people. On the other hand, if he pushes too hard, the hardlines in Iran will spin the uprising into 'another US-sponsored coup'.

It's a very slippery slope. On one hand, President Obama should take a harder approach in support of the Iranian people. On the other hand, if he pushes too hard, the hardlines in Iran will spin the uprising into 'another US-sponsored coup'.

I think President Obama, publically, is handeling this situation very keenly. He's right, we cannot afford to appear as directly interfering in the current situation. The extremist regime will slaughter everyone under a guise of national security. God forbid.

However, if I were Obama I would've certainly ordered on day one that the CIA initiate a information dissemination campaign within Iran to stimulate and nurture a growing grass-roots revolutionary movement. If it comes to the breaking point, where a revolution led by the young people of Iran has the chances of real sucess, we may have to get further involved, albeit discreetly.

 

[StorminNorman]

It's a very slippery slope. On one hand, President Obama should take a harder approach in support of the Iranian people. On the other hand, if he pushes too hard, the hardlines in Iran will spin the uprising into 'another US-sponsored coup'.

They are doing that anyway.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/jun/16/iran-elections

 

[Marx]

They are doing that anyway.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2009/jun/16/iran-elections

I'm aware that they are blaming the 'Western World' for all of their problems. The fact remains that they don't really have a leg to stand on in this case.

 

[StorminNorman]

And they wouldn't have a leg to stand on after we came in either.

If America comes in after the movement starts, you cannot blame America for it's creation - you can blame it for its continuation, for it's protection - but not it's creation.

 

[Paradyme]

Have you guys read this?

I'm only posting the part of the article that stuck out to me.

Neda Soltan, Young Woman Hailed as Martyr in Iran, Becomes Face of Protests

...........

Her family scheduled a memorial service to be held in a mosque in northern Tehran, but the government forbade ceremony, and she was buried quietly on Sunday with only her family present, say Soona Samsami, executive director of the Women's Freedom Forum, who has been relaying information about protests inside Iran to international media.

All mosques were given a direct order from the government barring them from holding any memorial services for Neda, and her family was threatened with grave consequences if anyone gathered to mourn her, said Samsami.

"They were threatened that if people wanted to gather there the family would be charged and punished," Samsami told FOXnews.com.
.....................


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,528133,00.html

 

[Marx]

And they wouldn't have a leg to stand on after we came in either.

If America comes in after the movement starts, you cannot blame America for it's creation - you can blame it for its continuation, for it's protection - but not it's creation.

That's true.

 

[StorminNorman]

That's why any sort of American action must not be covert.

If it's covert, then the whispers of "American manipulation" will happen - if the average Iranian doesn't see the American presence, then they are more apt to believe the stories of others.

If, however, American acts are seen by all - if protesters see American men and women trying to protect them, trying to protect their rights - then we will be seen as allies to the revolution.

 

[Marx]

That's why any sort of American action must not be covert.

If it's covert, then the whispers of "American manipulation" will can happen - if the average Iranian doesn't see the American presence, then they are more apt to believe the stories of others.

If, however, America acts are seen by all - if protesters see American men and women trying to protect them, trying to protect their rights - then we will be seen as allies to the revolution.

Another good point.

 

[BlackLantern]

I still don't like it....we need to stay out of this one...our fighting men and women are stretched thin as it is

 

[StorminNorman]

If America allows possible revolution in Iran to fail, it will regret it.

 

[Kelly]

There is a way to do this....

We need to look at the handling of

Ukraine
Georgia
Iraq
Kosovo

Look at what worked and didn't work from all of these.

Whatever we end up doing, WE CANNOT do it alone.....if we do, we will end up in another Iraq, and that would be worse than the Revolution failing....IMO.

 

[Nivek]

I don't understand, 6 months ago Red's wanted to bomb bomb bomb Iran, now they want to hold hands?

I find the hypocrisy pretty mind numbing anymore, IMO. We have no business interfering with whats going on there (if we have not already stoked some fires Black Op's wise), and I find Republican War Drum beating just another example of a clear lack of foresight and hypocracy. I'm sure if Obama was for going in, the company line would be about him starting another war when we have two we didn't finish.

 

[StorminNorman]

I have long advocated for change in Iran by revolution, not war. I have stated time and time again that my biggest fear about the Obama administration is that he would appear weak to the leaders in Tehran and Israel, forcing Israel to attack Iran before the younger generation can take control of their country.

What is happening in Iran is EXACTLY what I have believed would happen, hoped would happen, and had I been a religious man would have prayed to happen.

I don't want to see the flame of liberty in Iran to be stomped out by evildoers. America has a duty to protect the Iranian protesters. Not simply because we are the World Police/Freedom Fighters/Democracy Deputes/etc., not simply because of Operation Ajax and the guilt from it, but because it serves American interests.

 

[Paradoxium]

I could see Rafsanjani meddling around to knock Khamanei and Ahmadinejad out. Mousavi is his puppet and it might be in his financial and economic interest to do so. This is more believable for me than some romantic idea of a revolution to modernize Iran and to oust Ahmadinejad.

 

[voyzovrezon]

Republican senators say the Obama administration should do more. More what? I haven't heard any specific plans, although I remember a candidate John McCain singing "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" *giggles*

If revolution comes to Iran, it needs to come from the people--the Iranian people!

 

[voyzovrezon]

See why I get nervous when senators talk about "doing more"

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[StorminNorman]

Republican senators say the Obama administration should do more. More what? I haven't heard any specific plans, although I remember a candidate John McCain singing "Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran" *giggles*

If revolution comes to Iran, it needs to come from the people--the Iranian people!

It's a good thing France didn't share your view 200+ years ago.

 

[Raiden]

I have long advocated for change in Iran by revolution, not war. I have stated time and time again that my biggest fear about the Obama administration is that he would appear weak to the leaders in Tehran and Israel, forcing Israel to attack Iran before the younger generation can take control of their country.

What is happening in Iran is EXACTLY what I have believed would happen, hoped would happen, and had I been a religious man would have prayed to happen.

I don't want to see the flame of liberty in Iran to be stomped out by evildoers. America has a duty to protect the Iranian protesters. Not simply because we are the World Police/Freedom Fighters/Democracy Deputes/etc., not simply because of Operation Ajax and the guilt from it, but because it serves American interests.

I can understand your position, but last time when U.S. got involved heavily in Iran, and resulted in Operation Ajax, it didn't end well. I think Iranians still have memories of those times, and if U.S. got too involved again this time, it may actually backfire.