The Iran Thread

[SuBe]

Do you feel Safer knowing that Iran is testing Long Range Missiles and Mr. Obama just tore down the Missile Defense Sheild?

 

[Ahura Mazda]

That is not exactly accurate and i do not mean to keep rebuking what you say:

As an alternate, the US will build a new system, which, according to Defense Secretary Robert Gates, can be deployed faster, and provide greater security against a more immediate threat. To begin with, the technology already exists. It is designed to protect against short and medium range missiles which Iran already has, that could threaten European countries. This system of sea-based interception missiles will be placed in areas with the greatest threat to Europe

In any case, Iran does not have the capacity to attack US soil. It does however have the ability to attack certain areas of South East Europe as well as the Middle East.

 

[SuBe]

I didn't say anything about Iran attacking US Soil.

 

[moraldeficiency]

Also our missile shield was only in development, it didn't work. So it isn't that we tore down anything, we stopped testing something that might work in place of a proven system that will. All countries in the area are safer when that's in place than before when they were exposed.

 

[Paradyme]

That is not exactly accurate and i do not mean to keep rebuking what you say:



In any case, Iran does not have the capacity to attack US soil. It does however have the ability to attack certain areas of South East Europe as well as the Middle East.

But they've test fired a long range missle yesterday or today, didn't they? Or have I misheard?

Edit: Nevermind I've read some more articles and they said:

Iran said it successfully completed two days of missile tests that including launching its longest-range missiles on Monday, weapons capable of carrying a warhead and striking Israel, U.S. military bases in the Middle East, and parts of Europe.

State television said the powerful Revolutionary Guard, which controls Iran's missile program, successfully tested upgraded versions of the medium-range Shahab-3 and Sajjil missiles with can fly up to 1,200 miles (2,000 kilometers). It was the third and final round of missile tests in two days of drills by the Guard.

....

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090928/D9B09AKG0.html

So, that is why I was confused.

 

[Paradyme]

Also our missile shield was only in development, it didn't work. So it isn't that we tore down anything, we stopped testing something that might work in place of a proven system that will. All countries in the area are safer when that's in place than before when they were exposed.

I've heard opposite in the Documentary '33 Minutes'. It's the only research on our missle defense system I've heard or really read so I'm open to reading up more on it. If you've got anything pertinent I'd appreciate an article(s). Franklin was trying to find me an article on Aegis Ships earlier a few weeks ago.

 

[Paradoxium]

That is not exactly accurate and i do not mean to keep rebuking what you say:



In any case, Iran does not have the capacity to attack US soil. It does however have the ability to attack certain areas of South East Europe as well as the Middle East.

Correct! The centrifuges and gun style nukes are all meant for short to mid range. Enough to distance to launch a nuke safely but not far enough to be a ICBM. I suspect long range ones are too costly (and few). As that cliche goes; not putting your eggs in one casket (on top of mobility).

 

[Ahura Mazda]

The reality of it is that the current government would lose in almost any war they could engage in. Unfortunately, they are stupid enough that they could try. it is too bad that they remain safe within their own borders except in the case of a missile attack.

You can all thank the 70s governments of the US, France and Great Britain, for their role in helping the Ayatollahs into power.

 

[Paradoxium]

I agree on the dumb 70s intervention.

In particular, I think they are crazy enough to "try". This is why I think an attack on Israel (our lifetime) is inevitable.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I've heard opposite in the Documentary '33 Minutes'. It's the only research on our missle defense system I've heard or really read so I'm open to reading up more on it. If you've got anything pertinent I'd appreciate an article(s). Franklin was trying to find me an article on Aegis Ships earlier a few weeks ago.

I'd love to tell you what I know on the aegis system but super duper classified. As for the defense shield I've only read it was in development in every news story we have. The russians didn't want us finishing it because it would make their nuclear deterent ineffective. I don't believe we've ever developed an effective missile shield based on ground. Even our anti weapons like the patriot system was a 50/50 hit at best. Now those guns on the aegis? They ****ing work.

I should note most people talk of long range missiles but what that means to us over here are ICBMs, Iran's stuff isn't near an ICBM it would be pretty short range by our standards no matter what they decide to call it.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Correct! The centrifuges and gun style nukes are all meant for short to mid range. Enough to distance to launch a nuke safely but not far enough to be a ICBM. I suspect long range ones are too costly (and few). As that cliche goes; not putting your eggs in one casket (on top of mobility).

In particular, I think they are crazy enough to "try". This is why I think an attack on Israel (our lifetime) is inevitable.

I think its important to remember just how differently the Iranian leaderships perspective of all of this is from ours. We would say "We cant attack Israel because the Americans would nuke us right back and we cant defend ourselves." The Ayatollas and Ahmadinajad (whatever) dont care. Destroying Israel is a spiritual obligation which they think will lead to rewards in Heaven. Being nuked after destroying the Little Satan just gets them to their "reward" even faster. They see it as a "win-win" situation. They dont give a crap about nuking the US. Israel is their main concern.

 

[SuBe]

I agree demo.

 

[Hobgoblin]

I agree demo.

Grazie.

Also, I was watching CNN today and Robert Gates was saying that even if we did attack Irans weapons facilites, it would only be a setback for Iran. They'll just rebuild them anyway. The whole thing just seems to take us down a bad road, no matter how we try and handle it.

 

[Paradyme]

I'd love to tell you what I know on the aegis system but super duper classified. As for the defense shield I've only read it was in development in every news story we have. The russians didn't want us finishing it because it would make their nuclear deterent ineffective. I don't believe we've ever developed an effective missile shield based on ground. Even our anti weapons like the patriot system was a 50/50 hit at best. Now those guns on the aegis? They ****ing work.

I should note most people talk of long range missiles but what that means to us over here are ICBMs, Iran's stuff isn't near an ICBM it would be pretty short range by our standards no matter what they decide to call it.

I just would like there to be something that can work for us as far as defense goes. While we have a system in place we also need to be stopping Iran or other rogue countries from obtaining ICBM's. If they ever obtain an ICBM then we have quite a problem on our hands, especially if we don't have an active missle defense by then.

I had never heard of the Aegis until Franklin mentioned it. Is it that new that there are no news articles on it yet? Still in development?

 

[Paradoxium]

They wouldn't even care for the Muslims in Israel, but see them as "martyrs".

It would not shock me though if they hand these gun-nukes to a third party like Hezbollah.

 

[Hobgoblin]

They wouldn't even care for the Muslims in Israel, but see them as "martyrs".

It would not shock me though if they hand these gun-nukes to a third party like Hezbollah.

I always thought it was ironic that any nuclear fallout from a strike on Israel would also cover the West Bank and the Palestinians. So much for helping out their Palestinian brothers.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I just would like there to be something that can work for us as far as defense goes. While we have a system in place we also need to be stopping Iran or other rogue countries from obtaining ICBM's. If they ever obtain an ICBM then we have quite a problem on our hands, especially if we don't have an active missle defense by then.

I had never heard of the Aegis until Franklin mentioned it. Is it that new that there are no news articles on it yet? Still in development?

I would like that too, but anti ICBM tech is pretty hard to calculate. Here's what I can say about the Aegis, it'll shoot down any short range weaponry, and by that I mean what the Iranians call long range missiles, but it's not gonna touch an ICBM. So for the moment what we're putting in place will be more effective than what we had. We also only agreed to suspend research and testing on the defense shield not to scrap the program.

Aegis has been around for a while now, but a lot of the electronics are very classified. This is from wiki and it's pretty spot on :AWS, the heart of Aegis, comprises the AN/SPY-1 Radar, MK 99 Fire Control System, WCS, the Command and Decision Suite, and SM-2 Standard Missile systems. The Aegis Combat System is controlled by an advanced, automatic detect-and-track, multi-function three-dimensional passive electronically scanned array radar, the AN/SPY-1. Known as "the Shield of the Fleet", the SPY high-powered (four megawatt) radar is able to perform search, tracking, and missile guidance functions simultaneously with a track capacity of well over 100 targets at more than 100 nautical miles (190 km).[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System

Now consider that system linked up with a high round electronic gun capable of firing enough rounds to take down building and that's the basics for how it works.

 

[Paradoxium]

I always thought it was ironic that any nuclear fallout from a strike on Israel would also cover the West Bank and the Palestinians. So much for helping out their Palestinian brothers.

Well iirc, Palestine and HAMAS are basically a Sunni sect. Hezbollah and Iran is mostly of the Shi'ite strand. It's a bit simplifying over the issue, but I think they care slightly less of Sunni than say a Shi'ite. Given their historical differences.

 

[Kurosawa]

Agree 100% with all of the above. The entire situation with Iran is beyond terrifying and if the current leadership stays in place an attack on Israel is inevitable. Even more frustrating is our lack of options to prevent it.

It's things like this that makes me feel there is no hope for the world.

 

[SuBe]

We have to HOPE for CHANGE! CHANGE you can Believe in...

 

[moraldeficiency]

A lot of Iran's anti semite stuff is rhetoric just to pump up fellow muslims. Actually the people Iran hates the most are the british based on conspiracy theories that have been around there forever.

 

[Paradyme]

I would like that too, but anti ICBM tech is pretty hard to calculate. Here's what I can say about the Aegis, it'll shoot down any short range weaponry, and by that I mean what the Iranians call long range missiles, but it's not gonna touch an ICBM. So for the moment what we're putting in place will be more effective than what we had. We also only agreed to suspend research and testing on the defense shield not to scrap the program.

Aegis has been around for a while now, but a lot of the electronics are very classified. This is from wiki and it's pretty spot on :AWS, the heart of Aegis, comprises the AN/SPY-1 Radar, MK 99 Fire Control System, WCS, the Command and Decision Suite, and SM-2 Standard Missile systems. The Aegis Combat System is controlled by an advanced, automatic detect-and-track, multi-function three-dimensional passive electronically scanned array radar, the AN/SPY-1. Known as "the Shield of the Fleet", the SPY high-powered (four megawatt) radar is able to perform search, tracking, and missile guidance functions simultaneously with a track capacity of well over 100 targets at more than 100 nautical miles (190 km).[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aegis_Combat_System

Now consider that system linked up with a high round electronic gun capable of firing enough rounds to take down building and that's the basics for how it works.

Thanks for the info. If you can talk about it, what makes it so difficult to calculate ICBM's?

 

[Paradoxium]

Perhaps it's in their interest to form a "New Israel". I read of ideas being bounced around like buying a strip of land (Northern Brazil).

 

[moraldeficiency]

Thanks for the info. If you can talk about it, what makes it so difficult to calculate ICBM's?

Well they go into space and have multiple components which make it hard for a targetting system to hit the right part since the larger hotter components (fuel and ignition parts) are typically picked up leaving the warhead to drop unopposed. It was the same problem the patriots had with the scud missiles. These types of issues were the basis for the star wars program, using satellites to shoot down the components when they reach space.

Systems like the Aegis are brilliant at taking down things like cruise missiles or other planetary weaponry but once you leave atmosphere it's tricky for any sensors to follow and track through the atmosphere levels (suprisingly similiar to why subs can have trouble at certian depths). But systems like the aegis use guns to shoot down the missiles and the guns only have a certian range of accuracy and orbit isn't there.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Perhaps it's in their interest to form a "New Israel". I read of ideas being bounced around like buying a strip of land (Northern Brazil).

Thats one possibility. But again, this is a religious issue as well as a geopolitical one. Israel is a holy site in Judaism and Islam, northern Brazil is not. Heck, some Israelis even claim that Israel is meant to extend to the Tigris and Euphrates rivers.

EDIT: I just remembered something that Dubya said last year. I cant believe I'm saying this...but he was right in saying that in order to prevent WW3, we need to prevent Iran from getting the bomb. Things could get out of control quickly if Israel is nuked. If we nuke Iran, how do Russia and China respond to the loss of an important business partner? What about the rest of the Middle East? Yes, many nations (like the Saudis) are intimidated by Iran but many terrorist groups are allied to the Ayatollah.


The best way to prevent a larger war is to smother the flames before they can explode (pardon the melodrama.) But how can you do that when one side is bound and determined to stay the course? Can we keep bombing the nuke sites as the Iranians rebuild them? How long can that go on?