The Flash The Iris West/Candice Patton Thread

[luis4u]

I think as far as how the character is written, she's just okay. She doesn't have to put up with the type of writing Katie Cassidy on Arrow and Kristen Kreuk on Smallville had to deal with but I think she could be written better. I'm more drawn to Caitlin myself , but I don't think Iris is bad. I think the actress has enough personality that she's appealing even when the writing is lacking.

I like Iris a lot, too. I have hard time understanding how what Laurel was doing in Season 1 was less likeable. What Laurel was doing during the first season of Arrow was working at a legal aid non-profit for the underprivileged. She worked within and outside the law (i.e. helping the vigilante) to help make sure the corrupt rather than the innocent paid for their crimes. She also helped Thea get back on her feet after a DUI conviction. She was a comfort to her mother and father, and encouraged Tommy to step outside his father's shadow. When she made mistakes, she apologized within an episode. I can't see what is unlikeable about her.

 

[allthingsuper]

I personally found Thea way more annoying than Laurel in Arrow season one.

 

[Frodo]

I like Iris a lot, too. I have hard time understanding how what Laurel was doing in Season 1 was less likeable. What Laurel was doing during the first season of Arrow was working at a legal aid non-profit for the underprivileged. She worked within and outside the law (i.e. helping the vigilante) to help make sure the corrupt rather than the innocent paid for their crimes. She also helped Thea get back on her feet after a DUI conviction. She was a comfort to her mother and father, and encouraged Tommy to step outside his father's shadow. When she made mistakes, she apologized within an episode. I can't see what is unlikeable about her.

Well from what i've read and heard from fans and non diehard fans, its not that they find Laurel unlikable so much as they feel her character isn't interesting enough to warrant the attention the show and the writers have given her. They feel she's not interesting enough to be one of the leads of the series. Now I personally don't think they've done the actress any favors in terms of how she's written as a character which hasn't been all that strong, and I think they tried to base her off of Nolan's Rachel Dawes, who was a pretty weakly written character herself.

When you list all the stuff she's been through you would think the character would be more interesting or written better but it seems that the CW has problems writing for female characters in these type of shows anyway, which they really need to get a grip on. I found I had the same issue with Iris in the Arrow/Flash team up and that was the only time i've ever found her character unsympathetic . So in other words, its the writers fault .

 

[luis4u]

Well from what i've read and heard from fans and non diehard fans, its not that they find Laurel unlikable so much as they feel her character isn't interesting enough to warrant the attention the show and the writers have given her. They feel she's not interesting enough to be one of the leads of the series. Now I personally don't think they've done the actress any favors in terms of how she's written as a character which hasn't been all that strong, and I think they tried to base her off of Nolan's Rachel Dawes, who was a pretty weakly written character herself.

When you list all the stuff she's been through you would think the character would be more interesting or written better but it seems that the CW has problems writing for female characters in these type of shows anyway, which they really need to get a grip on. I found I had the same issue with Iris in the Arrow/Flash team up and that was the only time i've ever found her character unsympathetic . So in other words, its the writers fault .

“Of course, men always get a pass when it comes to poor/annoying characterization, while women get burned at the internet stake. Men are players, women are ****s; men are in touch with their emotions, women are whiny and cry-babies; men are awesome, women are Mary Sues; men are flawed, complex characters, women are annoying and every flaw of theirs is damning, etc.”

 

[Human Torch]

The thing that separates Iris from the other Flash/Arrow girls, is that she's the only one who gets to act all "girly girl" (well,I guess Felicity has her moments sometimes too.) while all the others are "all business" to one extent or another. I thought Iris geeking out over Ollie,for example, was kinda cute.

But I'm Old School.I used to ship Barry/Tina back in the 90's waaaay before I even knew what shipping was. And that's the same kind of dynamic Barry has with Caitlin.
Like Tina,
She's knowledgeable about his "condition" from a scientific pov,and uses that knowledge to help him.
She constantly worries about him going over his limits.
She's emotionally reserved,having lost someone she loved deeply.
She's shown somewhat more interest in him than being "just friends",but Barry seems oblivious.

That's why I find their paring much more desirable.It's not that Iris is annoying or written particularly poorly.She's just sorta there.There's not that much she can bring to an interesting relationship with Barry.That's why I hope they get him through this puppy-love phase and move her along.

 

[spider-neil]

I thought Iris was way too harsh on Flash especially when he tried to give her an explanation. To be fair, he had just pummelled her boyfriend. It's a pity I really liked the Lois/Clark, Lois/Superman dynamic, where she wants to be friends with the 'Man' but wants to get it on with the 'Super'.

 

[Frodo]

I wasn't so much annoyed by how she was mad at Flash. I was more annoyed at her for being all gushy around Oliver while neglecting Eddie a guy who clearly cares about her. Then she was clueless to Barry and gushy with Flash but then mad at him. It was just too much for one episode , and she came off very Raimi-Mary Jane-ish. From what i've seen alot of other people have had the same reaction to how she was written in that episode.

My fear is that if the writers keep writing her like that, she really will start getting alot of hate, which makes getting her with Flash alot harder for the audience to accept. In hindsight I think it would have been better for Barry not to be gushing after Iris but for him to sort of become aware that his view of her is changing and that he's developing feeling for her throughout the season. You could have even had him in denial about it.

That would give the writers a bit more leeway with both of their love interests and they wouldn't feel the pressure of getting them together because its in the comics. It could developed naturally over time .

 

[Mariah]

I wasn't so much annoyed by how she was mad at Flash. I was more annoyed at her for being all gushy around Oliver while neglecting Eddie a guy who clearly cares about her.

Yeah that was shallow of her.

 

[spider-neil]

I thought it was nice that Iris didn't shoot him down. Now she'll have to process the 'L' bomb that Barry has dropped in her lap.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I thought it was nice that Iris didn't shoot him down. Now she'll have to process the 'L' bomb that Barry has dropped in her lap.

"Lesbians?"

 

[Frodo]

I'm just glad that they finally got the whole revelation out of the way so they can move on from it . Its really the weakest part of the show, and it doesn't seem to be going over to well.

Hopefully Linda Park will be a better love interest for Barry and they can allow the Iris character to be more than just "the pretty love interest" and really have the writers define her character more.

 

[Mariah]

Well she barely reacted and even looked mad when he told her. It was hard to watch because those scenes are always awkward.

 

[spider-neil]

Well she barely reacted and even looked mad when he told her. It was hard to watch because those scenes are always awkward.

Very hard to watch. Me and my fiancé was almost shouting at the screen for Barry to stop before it's too late. I'm glad the writers have taken this step, on Smallville, Clark keeping in his feelings for Lana season after season got old really really quickly.

 

[Frodo]

Well she barely reacted and even looked mad when he told her. It was hard to watch because those scenes are always awkward.

Yeah. It was worse because Gustin was clearly doing this emotional acting job and it was like the actress couldn't emote. I know that's not the case because in the earlier episodes she's shown she can act and emote.

I think it was the writers trying to have their cake and eat it too. They wanted Barry to express his feelings but they didn't want to write themselves into a corner by having Iris respond either positively or negatively to his declaration.

This way, its sort of open ended so the writers can go back to that relationship if they want to , or even just drop it if they don't want to go back to it. Hence the awkward silence and a single tear.Lol.

 

[batdude]

Well, I think the writers are trying to show that Iris doesn't know how she feels about Barry. She's attracted to him as the Flash even if she doesn't know it. However she's also dating Eddie and crushing on Oliver so nothing is really set in stone yet.

 

[Frodo]

Yeah, but I think that fact that she doesn't know how she feels I think is a result of the writers giving themselves leeway in terms of the relationships as opposed to just doing it because they want her to not know how she feels about Barry. Nothing is set in stone but that's to give the writers some flexibility.

That's why I wasn't as bothered as alot people were to her silence. If they had her say something along the lines of "I'm not interested" or " I feel the same way" then it kinda binds the writers hands going forward and means they either have to pursue the relationship or sort of end any possibility of having it in the future. Now of course they could have changed their minds, but I do think that the introduction of Linda Park so early in the first season and Barry's declaration, was a sign that perhaps the writers feel that they can afford play things out with Gustin and the actress who's playing Park, and perhaps even let Iris have a new love interest as time goes on.

 

[Hypestyle]

Is Iris a manager at the coffee shop or is she just a barista/waitress?

 

[Hypestyle]

hopefully we'll find out when the new episodes start back up.

 

[godisawesome]

I've actually kind of appreciated Iris on this show, and I find myself thinking she's written and directed pretty well. Now, that's probably because I went in to the show having a pretty clear picture of what she would be, and I was proven correct thus far. And this almost certainly confirms that I'm biased at least towards the classic archetypes, though I hope it's not a sign of me judging female character unequally to their male counterparts.

Some of you who are Arrow fans might know that I'm not a particularly big fan of Laurel from Arrow. That's because she doesn't fit the archetype I think she should have always been; that of someone who is clearly going to become the daring Black Canary from Birds of Prey (the version of the character I'm most familiar with), someone who's vivacious and tough from the get-go. And since Laurel wasn't that character for the longest time, I found myself aggravated at the lukewarm portrayal of her competency in dire situations:

I keep harping on it, but why in the hell did they have her pull a shotgun, then demonstrate that she only loaded one shell in it? Or how she's capable of some basic and effective self-defense moves against several villains, but incapable of beating a drunk guy when she jumps him with a baseball bat?!?! Be consistent, story writers: either make her a strong character who's competent at kicking henchman butt, or a classic in-over-her-head survivor! Don't show me one, then five minutes later completely reverse it!

In contrast, I figured Iris would be the classic Lois Lane/MJ from the Raimi films character: she'd be vivacious but not all that combative, and consistency written along the classic archetype's lines. And she has been. She's been largely defined by Barry's pining for her, and by her investigation and attraction to the Flash. And yet, the writer's have written her more consistently and competently in that role. We know she's going to talk back at Clock King but not stupidly confront him unless the situation gets desperate. Thus, while Laurel was usually written in Seasons 1 and 2 as a Faux Action Girl because the writers wanted a damsel in distress half the time, Iris is a classic Action survivor capable of pulling a surprise quick draw on Clock King.

So, yeah, I'd say Iris is a step up from Season 1 & especially Season 2 Laurel, but you guys do have a point about how she still seems just kind of there: we all know exactly what to expect from her 90% of the time, so with the exception of her shooting Tockman, we can all see exactly how her parts of the show are the "mandatory romance subplot" part. That does hurt the appeal of her character.

And in my opinion, the best female characters on Arrow and Flash have been the ones that have organically grown into their roles, the ones that were disconnected from the long term plan in some way, so they could expand naturally. Moira, Sara, and Felicity all wound up being defined more by the skill of their actors and logical story progression, and all are excellent characters because of it. This may be happening to Cailtin right now; she's got a future in mind, but it's far enough away they can just focus on making her a cool character.

 

[Optimus27932]

She is SO fine.

 

[zilla92]

She is SO fine.

Can't argue with you at all. She is gorgeous.

 

[Optimus27932]

Can't argue with you at all. She is gorgeous.

 

[Hypestyle]

is that an NBC logo in the gifs?

 

[Optimus27932]

is that an NBC logo in the gifs?

Yes, it seems she was on some show on NBC.

 

[LostSon88]

It took Lana 3 seasons to get annoying on Smallville.

Iris destroyed that record.