The Jared Leto is The Joker(?) Thread

[Wildcard]

If he couldn't function without her he wouldn't have laughed and continued to crash the car when she exclaimed that she "couldn't swim." Not to mention bolting and letting Batman take her in.

Doesn't sound like someone who couldn't function without her. Nothing supports that claim.

 

[The Joker]

Yes, because Joker is never a risk taker, not even with his own life. Plays everything safe. Not to mention Batman was there, he knew he'd save her. I always took what he did as him counting on it to give him a chance to escape while Batman was distracted saving Harley. And Harley being captured suddenly means he can never get her back. We all know how air tight Arkham is at keeping inmates locked up.

Unsupported claims indeed. After all we're talking about a universe where they say Harley is more crazy and dangerous than the Joker

 

[Wildcard]

Yes, because Joker is never a risk taker, not even with his own life. Plays everything safe. Not to mention Batman was there, he knew he'd save her. I always took what he did as him counting on it to give him a chance to escape while Batman was distracted saving Harley. And Harley being captured suddenly means he can never get her back. We all know how air tight Arkham is at keeping inmates locked up.

Either way, whether he was counting on Batman to save her (probably didn't care, let's be real here) or not, a lovesick individual doesn't do that. Plain and simple, Joker was retrieving his property and trying to keep her from being used for anyone else's purposes but his own.

All of this "he was mopey, emo and lovesick" is a load of bull.

Unsupported claims indeed. After all we're talking about a universe where they say Harley is more crazy and dangerous than the Joker

As stupid as that line is, a few have suggested Waller only said it to help sell her TFX idea, which I can buy...even though it still shouldn't have ever been said.

 

[The Joker]

Either way, whether he was counting on Batman to save her (probably didn't care, let's be real here) or not, a lovesick individual doesn't do that. Plain and simple, Joker was retrieving his property and trying to keep her from being used for anyone else's purposes but his own.

A sane lovesick individual doesn't do that. Just like a sane lovesick individual doesn't murder a bunch of people to be reunited with his gf. Or kill someone who disrespects her. Normal sane couples don't go out on wild dangerous joyrides and call it date night etc. You're judging him by a sane person's actions.

All of this "he was mopey, emo and lovesick" is a load of bull.

Except it's not. Apart from being a mopey depressed dullard when she wasn't around, and then bending over backwards to get her back (all out of character traits for the Joker), we even saw him make efforts to impress her. Like wearing that fancy tux when he went to rescue her ("Awww you got all dressed up just for me", "I have grape soda on ice and the bearskin rug all ready for us back at home"). Can anyone remember a time when the Joker ever did something like that to please or impress Harley.

As stupid as that line is, a few have suggested Waller only said it to help sell her TFX idea, which I can buy...even though it still shouldn't have ever been said.

The few who have suggested that are people in denial trying to white wash a bad line. Waller could have sold Harley as an asset without saying she's more loony than the Joker is. If she can sell a guy who's only talent is throwing boomerangs then by comparison Harley is an easier sell.

It's a great example of the level of denial that surrounds the horrible treatment of these characters. People try and deny what is flat out said and shown in the movies in favor of what they wish was said and shown rather than what actually is.

 

[DeadStroke]

Either way, whether he was counting on Batman to save her (probably didn't care, let's be real here) or not, a lovesick individual doesn't do that. Plain and simple, Joker was retrieving his property and trying to keep her from being used for anyone else's purposes but his own.

All of this "he was mopey, emo and lovesick" is a load of bull.



As stupid as that line is, a few have suggested Waller only said it to help sell her TFX idea, which I can buy...even though it still shouldn't have ever been said.

I really don't see the big deal about the Joker "missing" Harley. So what? Joker's idea of love and missing someone is totally different than the normal person.

The only "love" shared between the two was when they were reunited. And even then originally he was meant to push her out of the helicopter.

He bailed on her earlier in the movie.
This was after he used her to psychologically torment his prey.

If you remove the gangsta song during the chemical wedding scene and just hear the cords/score and see the conflicted look in eyes its great stuff.

It seemed clear that Ayer's Joker is the type who is only afraid to be in love Harley . However, he consistently loves to control her.

There is a gap between him leaving her in the water to trashing his place in a very "Pink Floyd" kind of way. About a year or so with her being locked up.

You don't know exactly what made him get that low, but he's there. He can't control certain things like he use too. (Doesn't help they edited down his part and are trying to establish the Joker's history while keeping just a subplot in the film)

I think Joker loves Harley, but not in a traditional way. He loves the toy. He loves her like a pet. He got to use to it being around him so much that he's not use to being without it. Harley just sees some form of love. That's good enough for her (at this time).

 

[Wildcard]

I really don't see the big deal about the Joker "missing" Harley. So what? Joker's idea of love and missing someone is totally different than the normal person.

The only "love" shared between the two was when they were reunited. And even then originally he was meant to push her out of the helicopter.

He bailed on her earlier in the movie.
This was after he used her to psychologically torment his prey.

If you remove the gangsta song during the chemical wedding scene and just hear the cords/score and see the conflicted look in eyes its great stuff.

It seemed clear that Ayer's Joker is the type who is only afraid to be in love Harley . However, he consistently loves to control her.

There is a gap between him leaving her in the water to trashing his place in a very "Pink Floyd" kind of way. About a year or so with her being locked up.

You don't know exactly what made him get that low, but he's there. He can't control certain things like he use too. (Doesn't help they edited down his part and are trying to establish the Joker's history while keeping just a subplot in the film)

I think Joker loves Harley, but not in a traditional way. He loves the toy. He loves her like a pet. He got to use to it being around him so much that he's not use to being without it. Harley just sees some form of love. That's good enough for her (at this time).

I wholly agree here but even though the writing's on the wall, some just don't see it. Joker isn't lovesick so much as he misses having Harley around to constantly inflate his already massive ego.

The fact that he took a normal woman and twisted her to be in his likeness, his image, shows the extent of his megalomania, a characteristic that's always been present with the Joker given he kills most people by giving them his signature smile.

Joker is no more "in love" with Harley in SS than any other interpretation. She's his play thing, and as already iterated, a way for him to further stroke his own enormous ego.

 

[The Joker]

You can't see what is not there to be seen. Harley does not inflate his ego in SS. This is the sort of thing in which Harley boosts Joker's ego;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLIfhMGH0j8&t=1m34s

Or;

Or;

I've never seen Joker kill someone just because they have disrespected Harley in any way. On the contrary he'd probably laugh at it. Joker does not brood and mope when Harley is not around. Joker does not go to great lengths to get Harley back when she is incarcerated. Joker does not make romantic gestures like getting dressed up in a tux for her, or laying out a romantic venue for them back at "home". These are not the actions of a man towards someone who he sees as nothing but a play thing.

So how pray tell is this not different to other interpretations if the writing is on the wall? Please provide specific examples to back up the answer. We're talking about a Joker who would risk his own life just to get her back. Then we have a myriad of examples in this very thread from TAS and the comics where he willfully abandoned her to die without a second thought, or threw her by the way side. And you say the writing is on the wall that the SS interpretation is no different to the others. If you're going to accuse us all of not seeing something you claim is clearly there, then provide the evidence.

I could never imagine the Joker we got in SS treating Harley like this;

 

[The Guard]

I think the simplest way to describe their relationship is that he needs her, but doesn't really seem to care about her, at least in terms of her well being. Even when trying to get her back, he's making her risk her life to get back to him.

 

[The Joker]

How did he make her risk her life? I mean any more than any escape attempt would be a risk, or the type of criminal life they lead in general? And he didn't make her. She willingly went to him. If anything he lowered the odds of risk towards her when he kidnapped that Professor and brought him along and had him disable the mini bomb thing in her neck so Waller couldn't kill her.

A level of caring towards Harley's well being I have never seen the Joker do. All so he could be reunited with her.

 

[DeadStroke]

I wholly agree here but even though the writing's on the wall, some just don't see it. Joker isn't lovesick so much as he misses having Harley around to constantly inflate his already massive ego.

The fact that he took a normal woman and twisted her to be in his likeness, his image, shows the extent of his megalomania, a characteristic that's always been present with the Joker given he kills most people by giving them his signature smile.

Joker is no more "in love" with Harley in SS than any other interpretation. She's his play thing, and as already iterated, a way for him to further stroke his own enormous ego.

Yep. People are upset that they went this direction with the character.

Joker pushed her out of a window and still sent a "hope you feel better" note to her in Mad Love. The movie sort of turned it on his head as if what would happen if Harley was away from him for an extended period of time.

We dont' SEE love from them only until they're reunited and then was it really love? Or just happy to have his "Property of Joker jacket wearing girl back"?

Joker looked ready to kill Common the minute he walked into the club. His comment just gave him an extra reason too.

Lets also be honest. That was a SUICIDE SQUAD movie. They wanted to include the Joker without relying on him as a main character/antagonist.Whether that worked or was the best move is up to you. However, the best way they decided was to show flashbacks and then have the Joker going after her/messing with the mission.

We never really see them together for an extended period of time as Joker/Harley Quinn.
Toying with prey
Car chase
Helicopter scene
End sene

Thats probably no more than 4 or 5 minutes of screen time.

 

[TheVileOne]

There's no indication Joker needed Harley around to inflate his ego.

 

[TheVileOne]

Also how was blowing up the prison to go straight to her cell making her risk her life?

 

[The Joker]

Being around the Joker in general is a risk to your life lol. Even if you're on his side.

 

[TheVileOne]

We can probably read into the relationship in a lot of ways, but there really wasn't that much to go on for the film. Their relationship and how they treat each other wasn't that developed, and the psychology of their relationship. We never really see the Joker mistreating her or abusing her. Yeah there's the shock treatment thing, but they make it look like kinky sex play.

From what we see, Joker does come off like he's this forlorn devoted lover to Harley and is desperate to get her back. And what we do see of the two, he treats her more like an equal than being actually abusive.

 

[DeadStroke]

Also how was blowing up the prison to go straight to her cell making her risk her life?

I'd say the fact she walked straight to him with hundreds of bullets flying around her was risking her life.

She did so willingly, but the Joker knew the risk she would be taking. Now did the Joker want something to happen to her? No.

Which is why I say if they didn't cut him pushing her out the helicopter it would have added to their relationship.

He goes through all this trouble, puts her in a position to walk with bullets flying over head, dangling on a rope to get back to him.

Yet when they GET BACK TOGETHER in MINS he's ready to throw her out of helicopter.

The crazy psycho dependency Mad Love that they have going on.

Its hinted in the book that the Joker was trying to crash the car before Batman showed up because he was so angry with her. Thats why the awkward "Do it Puddin!" line comes from the film. Harley was sort of daring the Joker the crash/kill them.

The ole can't live with em, but can't live without em to an extreme level.

Its unfortunate that they did cut it.

 

[TheVileOne]

He threw her out of the helicopter to save her life because the helicopter was going to crash.

It doesn't really matter what the book says. The movie gave no indication he was angry at her and trying to crash in the car chase.

 

[The Joker]

We can probably read into the relationship in a lot of ways, but there really wasn't that much to go on for the film. Their relationship and how they treat each other wasn't that developed, and the psychology of their relationship. We never really see the Joker mistreating her or abusing her. Yeah there's the shock treatment thing, but they make it look like kinky sex play.

From what we see, Joker does come off like he's this forlorn devoted lover to Harley and is desperate to get her back. And what we do see of the two, he treats her more like an equal than being actually abusive.

Exactly. Even the shock treatment scene, that was BEFORE she became his Harley Quinn. After they took their little dip in the chemicals it was romance all the way.

Saying he made her risk her life because she was dodging bullets or what ever, how is this any different to the regular life they lead? Her life, his henchmen's, and Joker's own life are always deliberately being put at risk when they CHOOSE to lead a criminal life and go out and pull all these big deadly crimes.

Is anyone here seriously trying to say the only time Harley would be dodging bullets or in any danger is when she tries to escape? She's dodging bullets when they're pulling robberies, in gang/turf wars with other criminals, being chased by the Cops etc.

Is there ever not a time when Harley is not at risk with what she does. I mean come on. It's like saying Batman is being put at risk by Gordon when he asks him to help stop a crime lol.

He threw her out of the helicopter to save her life because the helicopter was going to crash.

It doesn't really matter what the book says. The movie gave no indication he was angry at her and trying to crash in the car chase.

Correct on both counts.

Books based on movies mean zilch. Often they have many things that were not even part of the movie.

 

[DeadStroke]

He threw her out of the helicopter to save her life because the helicopter was going to crash.

It doesn't really matter what the book says. The movie gave no indication he was angry at her and trying to crash in the car chase.

Because of how they edited/reshot it.

Joker was originally threatening to crash the car and he originally pushed her out of the helicopter.

As I've said that was a missed opportunity. I see it edited as she fell out instead of pushing her out for safety, but to each its own.

I think they tried to leave it more open ended on their relationship to not offend and also because not enough to really explore it.

Because of that some read it as lovesick puppy. Others see through the slight changes/subtext.

It will probably be explored more in future films. They just didn't they think could get away with making those statements in a movie not dedicated to them.

 

[TheVileOne]

Because of how they edited/reshot it.

Joker was originally threatening to crash the car and he originally pushed her out of the helicopter.

That's what's in the movie dude. That's what we saw. That's the way they edited to make it look. So that's the ultimate meaning. You are basically excusing an imaginary version of events from the film that don't currently exist.

I think they tried to leave it more open ended on their relationship to not offend and also because not enough to really explore it.

Because of that some read it as lovesick puppy. Others see through the slight changes/subtext.

It will probably be explored more in future films. They just didn't they think could get away with making those statements in a movie not dedicated to them.

Look, I'm not saying people are wrong about subtext. People can read in the relationship any way they want really. I'm just going by what was actually shown to us in the film. And in the film, he's never overtly abusive toward Harley and he doesn't really mistreat her the way he has in the comics and cartoon. And in the film, Joker seems to show a greater level of concern for getting her back in his life and wellbeing than in other depictions.

 

[DeadStroke]

That's what's in the movie dude. That's what we saw. That's the way they edited to make it look. So that's the ultimate meaning. You are basically excusing an imaginary version of events from the film that don't currently exist.

Umm..did I not say it was a missed opportunity?

Look, I'm not saying people are wrong about subtext. People can read in the relationship any way they want really. I'm just going by what was actually shown to us in the film. And in the film, he's never overtly abusive toward Harley and he doesn't really mistreat her the way he has in the comics and cartoon. And in the film, Joker seems to show a greater level of concern for getting her back in his life and wellbeing than in other depictions.

And because he's not overtly mistreating her in the few mins of screen time he has that means he's this loving boyfriend? All they showed was that he was concerned with getting her back.

We have 4 scenes of them together as Joker/Harley Quinn.
- Instructing her to sit in the lap of a rival and act like she wants him.
- Leaving her for dead after the chase with Batman (knowing she can't swim)
- Having her walk through hundreds of bullets and dangle on a rope. They kiss/hug and before you know it the plane blows up.
-Breaking her out of prison.

I saw a guy who really wanted her back. I didn't SEE enough to say there's this great love going on.

It was a SUICIDE SQUAD movie. We literally only got 2 minutes of them in the present.

Truth is we didn't get enough to know 100% for sure on either side of the argument.

 

[TheVileOne]

And because he's not overtly mistreating her in the few mins of screen time he has that means he's this loving boyfriend? All they showed was that he was concerned with getting her back.

Yeah, pretty much

 

[The Joker]

Remember the horrified cry he made as well when she plunged out of the helicopter. The thought of losing his beloved genuinely upset him.

 

[DeadStroke]

David Ayer must have been reading the hype when he wrote this.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Controversial, my ass. The hate game... I'm still really angry at this film and everyone involved, so I'd rather have him return to painting houses for a living...

It also really hurts going into a theater and seeing your beloved characters ripped to shreds, buddy.

 

[DeadStroke]