Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[DarthSkywalker]

I am sorry but i don't really see how the Joker is being potrayed as "cool" in the trailers. All i see is a tragic villain just like they did with The Killing Joke and White Knight.

Also, i'm sorry (again), but i don't see what difference there is between showing the struggle of a white man and a black man that gets bullied daily. Race doesn't make you less worthy of empathy. I say this a black man. The fact so many people use "white male" when they talk about Arthur instead of just a menta ill person seriously disgusts me. I know this because i suffer from mental illness, and i know what it is like to be bullied because of it. And it shouldn't mean **** if i'm white or black.

People like Arthur Fleck do exist in these world, i understand that, but demonizing them and not acknowledging these people are human isn't gonna make them go away. If anything, a movie that shows why these kind of people could be created and how it could be stopped should be something really necessary, which is something the movie does, according to the script i read.

Joker is a movie that talks about mental illness, and how the lack of attention to that topic only creates tragedy. Making these themes "taboo" isn't gonna make solve anything but only censore entertainment which is a terrible thing.

Yeah, "The Killing Joke". The story the author thinks he should have never written and is annoyed at what the world took from that and Watchmen?

Killmonger isn't a bullied black man. Is that what you took from Black Panther?

There is an ocean of differences between having a film discuss the issue you speak about and a movie that turns that person into some misunderstood social icon, that has some merit. People like Arthur Fleck do exist in this world. That is why you don't lionize such figures, giving the impression that such actions will lead to making you a legend. It is why more and more news outlets are avoiding showing the face of terrorists. Lionizing poor behavior, has led to so many problems in society, leaving them misunderstood or even normalizing them. I mean... look at the President.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I would. I have nothing but sympathy for their loss, but the movies are not to blame for it. Millions of people managed to watch these movies and not walk out and shoot up a theater afterward. Its the deranged individuals who commit these acts that are responsible.

There is a difference between disagreeing with them, and brushing them off as some sort of annoyance.

 

[The Joker]

There is a difference between disagreeing with them, and brushing them off as some sort of annoyance.

I'm not brushing them off. Its their attitude towards the movie that's an annoyance. They won't be the only ones to have it towards this movie either. That will be an annoyance, too.

The Telegraph asked Phoenix a question along these lines about the movie inspiring people like Joker, and he rightfully walked out of the interview.

 

[Hollis Mason]

Yeah, "The Killing Joke". The story the author thinks he should have never written and is annoyed at what the world took from that and Watchmen?

Killmonger isn't a bullied black man. Is that what you took from Black Panther?

There is an ocean of differences between having a film discuss the issue you speak about and a movie that turns that person into some misunderstood social icon, that has some merit. People like Arthur Fleck do exist in this world. That is why you don't lionize such figures, giving the impression that such actions will lead to making you a legend. It is why more and more news outlets are avoiding showing the face of terrorists. Lionizing poor behavior, has led to so many problems in society, leaving them misunderstood or even normalizing them. I mean... look at the President.

First, i never said Killmonger was a bullied black man. I don't know where you got that. I wasn't talking about Killmonger in my answer.

Second, i stopped giving a damn about what Moore said when i realized he isn't the guy he was in the past. Maybe it was when he gave a stupid monologue about how superheroes are white male supremacist or some insane **** like that. People will always take your work out of context. You can't stop that no matter how much you try. I gave an example of how the same happened with TDK even with all the things you said Nolan made obvious.

Third, you're having a simplistic view of what this movie is trying to tell based in just two trailers you saw. Ironic, because you are the one taking the movie out of context now. The point of showing him becoming an icon isn't to glorify him in any way. A review actually touched this topic in a great way.

Open if you don't care about spoilers.

Spoiler

The movie is very nihilistic, which is something some may hate, but i kinda like a little. The people that idolize Joker are just as bad as him, and they are willing to kill Bruce's parents in front of him like nothing. The movie shows how both sides of the coin are terrible and touches the topic of what happens when you choose a monster like Joker as an icon (kinda making fun of the people that idolize Ledger's Joker as some hero). The thing is there are no heroes in this movie. It isn't a black and white film. It's very pessimistic and depressing. The point of showing him becomng an icon is to show the hipocrisy of the system and how terrible people can be.

Btw, i really don't want to start a fight between us, so don't think I'm trying to be rude.

 

[PacificBoy]

Batman shooting families 'horrified' by Joker film


Here we go.

The Aurora families are using the movie to make a political statement and asking WB to actively pivot towards their gun reform platform - seems about par to me for a movie whose story elements invite such controversy. This level of scrutiny and discourse to come is to be expected really.

Just for the record, I know nothing of the plot of the actual movie. Only what I can glean from the trailers. I don't know how the movie protrays him. Only the trailers. If it is art, you hold it to the standards of art. And intentions rarely matter in such circumstances. What the movie actually shows, what it invokes. If that wasn't the case, the argument of intention could be made for poor films that do not show any of the writer's intent. The idea that the Joker isn't being portrayed as cool in the marketing is just downright incorrect. There is also the issue of you know, you wouldn't say there is any merit to a sympathetic approach to a terrorist, even if that is what you made, unless you are a complete idiot.

My wife, who isn't the biggest comic-book fan, thought the trailers gave Joker an antihero vibe. I don't disagree with her, although I feel it's an intriguing premise because of it.

 

[dhandler01]

I mean you don't have to agree with them. I agree with their sentiment, but not their approach outside of apparently wanting WB to distance themselves from politicians who go against gun control. But you know, they did lose family to a person that mirrors the main character in this movie. I don't know if I'd Charlie Brown "good grief" them over this.

I feel bad for their loss, but it has zero to do with The Joker whether it was TDK or this. It is as big a BS talking point as blaming a video game for it.

If they dont want to deal with the film they dont have to go see it.

 

[HBarnill]

I am sorry but i don't really see how the Joker is being potrayed as "cool" in the trailers. All i see is a tragic villain just like they did with The Killing Joke and White Knight. Making you feel empathy for him doesn't mean it's glorifying him. There's a big difference between empathy and simpathy. I don't know which trailers you watched, but that's something that has been done since art starting to evolve.

Also, i'm sorry (again), but i don't see what difference there is between showing the struggle of a white man and a black man that gets bullied daily. Race doesn't make you less worthy of empathy. I say this a black man. The fact so many people use "white male" when they talk about Arthur instead of just a mental ill person suffering abuse seriously disgusts me. It shows these people don't really feel empathy to anybody except those they feel are worthy. I know this because i suffer from mental illness, and i know what it is like to be bullied because of it. And it shouldn't mean **** if i'm white or black.

"Hey see that guy being bullied there?! Let's go hel- Oh, wait, he's white. Doesn't matter"
That's what i hear everytime.

People like Arthur Fleck do exist in these world, i understand that, but demonizing them and not acknowledging these people are human that need serious mental help isn't gonna make them go away. What do you think it will do? If anything, a movie that shows why these kind of people could be created and how it could be stopped should be something really necessary, which is something the movie does, according to the script i read.

Joker is a movie that talks about mental illness, and how the lack of attention to that topic only creates tragedy. Making these themes "taboo" isn't gonna make solve anything but only censore entertainment which is a terrible thing and isn't gonna lead us anywhere but souless movies that only show the world as sunshine and rainbows instead of actually trying to send a message that matters.

You’re not black. Don’t BS us. A black person wouldn’t say this.

 

[Hollis Mason]

Seems like this guy really liked the film

 

[Hollis Mason]

You’re not black. Don’t BS us. A black person wouldn’t say this.

Excuse me? Holy ****, i didn't know all black people had the same beliefs and thoughs, or said the same things.

Do you realize how stupid you sound? What do you think we are, some kind of cult with a same religion or some **** like that? How old are you? What would a black person say, according to you?

I'm sorry, i really want to be nice with everyone here but this kind of comments anger me. You don't know **** about black people if you think they wouldn't agree with me.

 

[Arachnerd]

You know, it's times like these when the ignore feature really comes in handy. Sometimes it's best not to bother with some folks on here.

 

[terry78]

You’re not black. Don’t BS us. A black person wouldn’t say this.

Well you kinda wanna be careful with that, man. It's a lot of us on here and I didn't even know there were more brothers on here until years later lol.

 

[Hollis Mason]

Soundtrack tracklist revealed. You can preorder now.
Amazon product

Spoiler: Tracklist

Disc: 1

Hoyt's Office/ Defeated Clown/ Following Sophie/ Penny in the Hospital/ Young Penny/ Meeting Bruce Wayne/ Hiding in the Fridge/ A Bad Comedian/ Arthur Comes to Sophie

Disc: 2

Looking for Answers/ Penny Taken to the Hospital/ Subway/ Bathroom Dance/ Learning How to Act Normal/ Confession/ Escape from the Train/ Call Me Joker

 

[antsman41]

I mean you don't have to agree with them. I agree with their sentiment, but not their approach outside of apparently wanting WB to distance themselves from politicians who go against gun control. But you know, they did lose family to a person that mirrors the main character in this movie. I don't know if I'd Charlie Brown "good grief" them over this.

The Aurora shooter looked more like Ronald McDonald than the Joker, no matter how many times he said he was "inspired by/was acting as" the Joker.

 

[Boom]

Yeesh. Apparently the US Military is actually issuing warnings about this movie.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/u-s-military-issues-warning-to-troops-about-incel-viol-1838412331

 

[Orb]

....I just wanna watch a movie....

 

[Detective Conan]

This is getting a wee bit ridiculous.... I understand the concerns that this movie could be taken the wrong way by wrong people but this is getting to be overkill.

 

[OtherwiseKnownAs]

We’re living in very fractured times. That’s all I’ll say regarding the controversies of this movie, and the controversies it will incite.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

Wow lol one day, all violent rated R movies going to banned in America...

 

[PacificBoy]

I don't think it is since the letter writers said they "support [WB's] right to free speech and free expression". They're soapboxing their anti-gun stance rather than shutting down the movie, criticizing it rather than attempting to censor it.

The movie draws a whole lot of metacommentary, and it's one which demands its themes are taken seriously. Well, they are being taken seriously and I think that's great for discourse further down the line.

 

[howdoesbaneeat]

The Aurora shooter looked more like Ronald McDonald than the Joker, no matter how many times he said he was "inspired by/was acting as" the Joker.

He never even said that, it was bs reporting that gained traction.
Meyer: The James Holmes “Joker” rumor – The Denver Post

Literally everything about this 'concern' and 'controversy' is absurd, ignorant, cynical, pseudo intellectual, fear mongering, it's projecting fears of the real world onto fiction and hypotheticals. This movie will not inspire violence any more than any other similar movie or book or show or graphic novel. Look at the news, look at politics, economic anxiety, mental illness, access to healthcare, access to guns. This movie isn't the problem, it's only about the problems.

 

[Micromind]

This thread.

 

[Predator jp]

for better or worse all of these controversy will be good for Joker's overall box office performance.

 

[Rodimus]

Excuse me? Holy ****, i didn't know all black people had the same beliefs and thoughs, or said the same things.

Do you realize how stupid you sound? What do you think we are, some kind of cult with a same religion or some **** like that? How old are you? What would a black person say, according to you?

I'm sorry, i really want to be nice with everyone here but this kind of comments anger me. You don't know **** about black people if you think they wouldn't agree with me.

I wouldn't waste your breath, he's saying something about himself there not you.

 

[TheFuture]

....I just wanna watch a movie....

Haha...my sentiments exactly.

I'll probably just keep to myself after seeing it for awhile. I'd love to discuss it but I don't think any good will come from engaging with people who have already taken, or will end up taking, a hardline stance.

 

[Micromind]

I don't know how to react to such thing, how on Earth is the Joker heroic ? Has the writer seen the movie ? It's not about Joker's ascendance but fall into madness.

https://io9.gizmodo.com/joaquin-phoenix-couldnt-answer-the-most-obvious-questio-1838368694

Even though the Joker is objectively made out to be the villain of his own film, it’d be disingenuous to say that he isn’t framed in a heroic way because the story being told is about his origins and ascendance.

We know that the clown is destined to become one of Gotham’s most enduring threats and one of the few people capable of going toe-to-toe with Batman, and so the Joker’s on-screen actions, horrific though they made be, all build toward the idea of him becoming a powerful, important figure in society.