Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[Kane52630]

My Review

At the Movies with Kane and BN

 

[TheFuture]

I takE issue with this. On one hand, it's great to she light onto mental illness. On the other hand, I find that films aren't the proper platform to "educate" on psychodynamics and mental health.. most use an eriksonian Psychosocial approach. Films tend to, at times, reinforce stereotypes about mental illness because the filmmakers are not mental health professionals, who use stereotypical trauma as the cause of stereotypical mental health symptoms.

While this film can shed insight, and most importantly awareness towards society's impact on mental illness (which it does), it also impacts the stigma associated with it. Haven't seen this movie yet, but I'm uncomfortable with films tackling mental illness.. filmmakers should consult licensed mental health clinicians when making films like this to not only add to the realism, but avoid the cartoonist representation 85% of films which highlight mental health take on. Movie sounds interesting.

Can't disagree with that but my counter would be that Arthur's situation was so absurd, that it wasn't meant to be an honest depiction of mental illness. It's just a surreal take on someone who is **** upon to ridiculous levels.

The film isn't all that much of a social commentary moreso just a character study inspired by one of the most outrageous individuals committed to paper.

That's the joke on bloggers taking it so seriously.

 

[Kane52630]

There's definitely a double standard with critics who are way too hard on this movie.

 

[TheFuture]

There's definitely a double standard with critics who are way too hard on this movie.

Specific to one country I would add because elsewhere the praise has been overwhelming.

 

[TheGuy]

9/10 for me!

Pros:
-references to the Batman mythos (TDKR, TKJ, etc.)
-Phoenix (of course)
-score (really thought I was hearing Zimmer there)
-cinematography and production design (beautiful)
-no cheap laughs
-the essence of Joker in the comics is maintained and arguably equal to or greater than Heath's portrayal (multiple origins and unreliable narrator)

Cons:
-the social commentary feels a bit lacking
-the supporting characters don't get to contribute to the story as a whole as much as I desire

As many have said, the closest CBM to Joker is Logan. Still think the latter is superior because it meshed social commentary with a strong hold of characters, not just the main character.

 

[Micromind]

 

[terry78]

Yeah it's gonna be big this Halloween, I just hope people don't get stupid with it.

 

[Mysteryman]

Specific to one country I would add because elsewhere the praise has been overwhelming.

That country would be Joker's Birthplace. Of course American critics are going to be more critical.
The Joker is a major part of American Popular Culture.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Spoiler: Spoiler

It could also be some time has passed at the end based on his different look

He’s thinking about Bruce standing there, and laughs. Maybe Batman exists at that point and he’s remembering that he created him that night?

I hadn't even thought of it this way but its an extreme possibility.

Spoiler

That means he may actually have been much younger when the events of the film happened than what we are seeing in the film. There's a whole slew of possible things that may be real or aren't. God, I love that so much.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

If that happened in the US, someone would probably called the police lol

 

[Gee]

I expect the Joker costume to be banned in some workplaces on Halloween...

 

[FunkMiller]

Spoiler: Spoiler

It could also be some time has passed at the end based on his different look

He’s thinking about Bruce standing there, and laughs. Maybe Batman exists at that point and he’s remembering that he created him that night?

Nah. He’s

Spoiler

laughing at the idea something like Batman could exist in that nihilistic universe. He’s laughing at us for thinking Batman is possible.

 

[Micromind]

Not sure if posted..

Spoiler

 

[Micromind]

 

[Detective Conan]

Sounds like Joaquin is more open to an idea of a sequel than initially thought.

 

[dhandler01]

Spoiler

I don't prescribe to the entire movie is a dream. What I think is the entire movie is an exaggeration. There's a big difference between the two. Now we know certain elements like the romance were false and didn't actually happen. Arthur himself is an unreliable narrator. I think his story has elements of Truth and many of those things may have happened, but not necessarily in the way Arthur is telling them to us. I believe we are watching an exaggeration of how awful the streets of Gotham had become. We're seeing an exaggeration of how he was victimized. So things like those guys on the subway maybe they were being jerks to him, but did he necessarily get assaulted? Did he maybe just judge these guys for representing everything he hated and just decided to kill them, and what we're seeing is how Arthur saw those people in his head for example. That's what I think this movie was doing. But that's just my interpretation

I think that is a great way to look at it.

When I see it again I'm going to try and look at it from a different perspective and see if I can differently at the end .

 

[TheFuture]

That country would be Joker's Birthplace. Of course American critics are going to be more critical.
The Joker is a major part of American Popular Culture.

Yeah which just makes it even more disappointing that this has gone over the heads of those born in the country who are critical of the film. You'd almost swear that they haven't a clue about the character.

 

[dhandler01]

Spoiler

Wait, so they basically went for the St. Elsewhere ending??? I haven't even seen it but knowing that this was an alternate take on the origin, I was almost expecting that since some reviews hinted at some things happening in Arthur's head. I think I'll wait for the torrents now...

Spoiler

no. The St. Elsewhere ending made it explicit that none of it happened. Joker makes you question it but never contradicts the narrative. He might have made it up, or it all happened and he just thinks about it at the end cause he finally truly exists.

Think of it closer to the end of Inception.

 

[dhandler01]

Yeah which just makes it even more disappointing that this has gone over the heads of those born in the country who are critical of the film. You'd almost swear that they haven't a clue about the character.

Not just that but you would almost swear they didn't even see the film and just are going by their gut. And I say that whether they liked the film or not...

As for the sequel talk...i can honestly say that the Batman who would show up in this universe might be the most intense and most interesting version we could ever see. And if we saw him from the perspective of Fleck's Joker...good lord Batman may never be the same.

 

[TheFuture]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but that kid seemed to have a reasonable head on his shoulders. I could see that Bruce Wayne trying to make a difference as Bruce Wayne first before going to extreme measures and becoming Batman.

 

[Jekecy]

Sounds like Joaquin is more open to an idea of a sequel than initially thought.

I knew it. Whether it comes to fruition in facing Batman or not, I’m so down for Joaquin to return. Plenty left on the table now that the “origin” is out the way.

 

[dhandler01]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it but that kid seemed to have a reasonable head on his shoulders. I could see that Bruce Wayne trying to make a difference as Bruce Wayne first before going to extreme measures and becoming Batman.

Spoiler

I dunno he looked stoic when Fleck first meets him and then watches a clown kill his dad during a riot after Fleck, dressed as a clown, kills someone live on the air

I just think the version of Batman that would arise would be closer to the TDKR Batman (violent and crossing lines) than most other versions.

But how would Fleck see him? what would he think of a person trying to fix the society that is broken by dressing as a Bat? Would he see him as the villain? Would he love the irony of a man trying to save people through fear and desperate measures? We he see him as the inevitable "other side of the coin" or would he feel they are similar? A character study of Batman through the eyes this Joker could be something to behold!

I know I will never see it...but man I really want it!!

 

[8ulk87]

do you think that is still possible even without China?

Yes it is.

$275 mil US.
$290 mil OS.
$565 mil WW.

Temporarily enters the 2019 Top 10 dethroning How to Train your Dragon 3.

 

[terry78]

You really can see after this view into a possible Joker's mind why he's so obsessed with Batman and his attempts to "fix" society's ills.

 

[Arachnerd]

The fact that Phoenix is not against starring in a possible sequel makes me so happy. The question is, where would we go from here? Batman or no Batman?