Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[Guts]

A lot of the reviews, even negative ones, say that the score for this is great, which is rare for one of these movies - Black Panther and Man of Steel are the only ones recently where the music didn't sound generic. Nolan's Bat films too, of course.

I haven't watched Chernobyl yet, but the person that did the score for that show also did the score for Joker and her score for Chernobyl sounds very atmospheric.

 

[Hollis Mason]

I haven't watched Chernobyl yet, but the person that did the score for that show also did the score for Joker and her score for Chernobyl sounds very atmospheric.

According to IMDB, this one also won Best Soundtrack at Venice. Didn't know that, tbh. I just focused in the Best Film win.
Joker - Awards - IMDb

 

[Guts]

The trailer with all the other sounds taken out so it's only the score.

 

[Hollis Mason]

After reading some spoilers, i think i would like to see a sequel showing what kind of Batman would exist in this Gotham. Problably never gonna (and shouldn't) happen, but would be interesting.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Well, a mistake is something that should be fixed. Ignoring the mistake isn't a solution, it's laziness. RT is an international website that gives a service, and if that service is wrong, the customer has the right to be angry. He has the right to want that mistake fixed.

TLDR: If he gives a ****, it isn't your problem.

We Finns are notoriously pedantic nitpickers online, always correcting when someone spells a name (especially a Finnish persons' name, usually a hockey player's) incorrectly for example. I'm one of those types. But even I wouldn't pick this as the "hill to die on".

 

[Hollis Mason]

We Finns are notoriously pedantic nitpickers online, always correcting when someone spells a name (especially a Finnish persons' name, usually a hockey player's) incorrectly for example. I'm one of those types. But even I wouldn't pick this as the "hill to die on".

Well, good for you, i guess.

 

[Holy Slapper]

It was no more of a spoiler then when people said Darth Vader was only going to be in costume in ROTS for about 5 minutes.

Or Captain Marvel's screentime in Endgame.

 

[Gothamsknight]

Great shot

Such a fantastic shot

 

[mddbatman]

Hee Hee Hee Hee Hee Hee Ha Ha Ha Ha......I couldn't care less if this film is getting a few negative reviews, it was obvious that it would. I can't wait for the 4th of October. Hee Hee Hee Hee. Basically what I'm trying to say is chill out and stop getting so worked up about Rotten Tomatoes. This film got a massively positive response from Venice, so chill ha.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Heath Ledger is smiling from above right now.

Well, if one believes in that sort of thing, I would hope he is smiling from above, but because his daughter is doing so well...And not because of another version of a fictional character in another cbm flick, played by a different actor, which doesn't make or take away from his own legendary performance.



jk

 

[Art Vandelay]

I’ll be honest, the second it became clear that Batman was not involved in this movie whatsoever, it kinda ceased to be a movie about The Joker for me, but rather a character study inspired by The Joker.

That's definitely what I got from the leaked interview scene. Although the clip is fairly brief, Phoenix's Joker felt very human, to me. Which might be disappointing to some, if only because it erases the air of mystery that surrounds the Joker, and that sense he's a criminal mastermind who has some sense of control. With Ledger's Joker, there was a feeling that he was a step ahead of everyone else, and he was almost inscrutable.

This new Joker, however, comes off as being a pitiful and petulant man. And, rather naked. Because his motives are crystal clear. This isn't the Joker as the "clown prince of crime". This is the Joker as a bitter, angry, misfit. Watching these clips makes me understand the concerns some critics are having about this movie, because here, the Joker feels like a human being, more so than he ever has been before. Which might be jarring for those that are expecting the typical, blade in shoe tip Joker we're used to.

 

[Hollis Mason]

That's definitely what I got from the leaked interview scene. Although the clip is fairly brief, Phoenix's Joker felt very human, to me. Which might be disappointing to some, if only because it erases the air of mystery that surrounds the Joker, and that sense he's a criminal mastermind who has some sense of control. With Ledger's Joker, there was a feeling that he was a step ahead of everyone else, and he was almost inscrutable.

This new Joker, however, comes off as being a pitiful and petulant man. And, rather naked. Because his motives are crystal clear. This isn't the Joker as the "clown prince of crime". This is the Joker as a bitter, angry, misfit. Watching these clips makes me understand the concerns some critics are having about this movie, because here, the Joker feels like a human being, more so than he ever has been before. Which might be jarring for those that are expecting the typical, blade in shoe tip Joker we're used to.

It didn't feel like a pitful and petulant man, imo. It felt more like a crazy unstable psychopath to me.

Spoiler

The way he laughs about people being killed and says he is tired of pretending it isn't just makes it clear he has always been like that, but was hiding it or trying to hide it.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I think the petulants comes from

Spoiler

when he's confronting De Niro's character, and he and makes his "werewolf" rant, he sounds like a teenager yelling at his father. He sulks about De Niro's motivations for bringing him on the show. I mean, he's still a psychopath, I still got the sense that this was very personal for him. He's not just creating chaos for the sake of it.

 

[TheScarecrow]

We should email in about the Certified Fresh thing. This film met the objective requirements.

 

[FunkMiller]

So far the reviews have been "It's a ****ing masterpiece" and "best movie of the year" to "an empty movie" or "A miserable and dangerous film": Anarchy, just like the Joker would like.

Wrong Joker

This guy seems driven far more by revenge and a rage against the machine than Ledger’s. He’s a reactionary, rather than an anarchist. Which, as others have pointed out, is a far more understandably human motivation.

Heath Ledger is smiling from above right now.

Heath was very probably agnostic or atheist, so... er... no.

 

[Flint Marko]

I haven't watched Chernobyl yet, but the person that did the score for that show also did the score for Joker and her score for Chernobyl sounds very atmospheric.

Hell yes, didn’t know that.

Chernobyl is easily one of the best TV shows in recent memory, I highly recommend it, and the soundtrack plays a significant role in that. It’s nearly flawless.

 

[Closerframe]

Wrong Joker

This guy seems driven far more by revenge and a rage against the machine than Ledger’s. He’s a reactionary, rather than an anarchist. Which, as others have pointed out, is a far more understandably human motivation.

This is also the origin of this character. Although it's a one off film, one could imagine this Joker evolving into a more calculated version of the character or, even scarier, he doesn't plan anything. He just reacts in the very moment which is far more terrifying.

 

[Arachnerd]

Heath was very probably agnostic or atheist, so... er... no.

Dude, it was just a figure of speech.

 

[The Batman]

This brings in mind my thoughts on DC/WB's "having their cake and eating it too" philosophy on making stand alones franchises that aren't connected but pretty much are. I just don't see any feasible way it can make people who want them connected or people who don't happy. Nobody wins, and it likely is going to stir an annoying mess.

The only people who don't "Win" are the ones who're overly insistent on having it one way or the other.

Some of us just want good films.

 

[Gothamsknight]

really like how philips has been saying "The Joker is an unreliable narrator so we have no idea how true this origin is". Goes to show this is being treated as just another origin we can consider for the character and I really love that idea.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

These reviews are cracking me up the its a well made movie, but it’s too dark, and violent. John Wick 3 ( I love this movie) sitting at 90%. Interesting.

 

[Boom]

These reviews are cracking me up the its a well made movie, but it’s too dark, and violent. John Wick 3 ( I love this movie) sitting at 90%. Interesting.

Turns out gun violence is OK so long as it's fetishized.

 

[JimThompson]

Turns out gun violence is OK so long as it's fetishized.

A gun is a tool, Marion, no better or no worse than any other tool, an axe, a shovel or anything. A gun is as good or as bad as the man using it. Remember that.
~Shane

 

[dhandler01]

Its a little different though. Wick is a straight up action film...it is shallow and for all intents and purposes is a live action video game. It isnt supposed to be a character study in anything it is exactly what it is supposed to be. There is nothing to dissect, it is all surface.

Joker is being billed as something much deeper and more thoughtful, which means it is going to be critiqued harder because it is supposed to have something to say. If critics think it missed the mark it is going to be judged on a much harsher level.

I am not saying they are right just saying the comparison is a bit Apples and Oranges.

 

[Another_Fool]

These reviews are cracking me up the its a well made movie, but it’s too dark, and violent. John Wick 3 ( I love this movie) sitting at 90%. Interesting.

Its not that it's dark and violent that people are criticizing Joker. The common thing the negative reviews have stated is that its unnerving, disturbing, and that they worry the film is dangerous to someone that can be easily influenced. Personally this intrigues me only more. If anything this movie is getting a very similar reception to that of Requiem for a Dream, a movie I love but was deeply unsettling for a number of critics.

 

[Slade W]

See, this is what bothers me: like nearly every adaptation to borrow from Killing Joke, this misses the key fact that Killing Joke kind of portrays the Joker's entire ideological position as full of it. For all the glory and attention the Joker's scheme gets, the story. . . has it utterly not work, on either Gordon or Batman, and specifically has Batman deconstruct it as the same cliched edgy pseudo-philosophy every sociopathic teenager thinks they invented for the first time.

Which is to say, the problem is not the Joker advocating something, the problem is the story forgetting to make clear that he is wrong. Not merely evil and broken, but *fundamentally incorrect*.

I am not completely sure it didn't work on Batman. IMO, it could be interpreted that Batman laughing at Jokers joke at the end could be interpreted as him snapping and going crazy. The way the police lights are turned off and we are left looking at the dark puddle at the end may have supposed to symbolize Batman being consumed by the darkness and finally killing Joker. It should also be noted that in this particular story, Joker chose Gordon as his white knight that had to be made an example of and not Batman, which perhaps suggests that Joker and maybe even Alan Moore himself views Gordon as the better person and as incorruptible, whereas Batman is corruptible so putting him in Gordon's position would not get the point across as clearly if the plan succeeded. Also, the story was originally set in an alternate universe and only became canon afterwards due to its popularity.

Some interpretations of Jokers joke that I like are that it shows how Joker believes they will never trust each other which I believe he tells us when the character in the joke representing him says to the character representing Batman in the joke "You'd turn it off when I was half-way across", referring to the light beam that Batmans representative thinks Jokers representative can walk across.

IMO, this also reveals that Joker thinks Batman is also crazy due to the person in the joke representing Batman believing someone can walk across a beam from a torch, and also, how Joker views Batman as similar to him "two guys in a lunatic asylum", which would possible mean that Joker thinks that Batman is ill-suited to rehabilitate him.

I believe that the joke reveals a significant difference Joker thinks there is between the two and that it is that Batman can blend in with society when he wants to, hence the person representing him in the joke finding it easy to jump from one roof to the other so he can escape into the town, but Joker, due to him being disfigured and permanently looking like a clown, is not able to do that, hence the person represrenting him in the joke has trouble doing the same.

I am not saying I 100% believe that Batman killed the Joker in the story, but things like this, as subtle as they may be, make me believe that it is a possibility. Grant Morrison, who IMO is a great writer and an extremely clever person also believes that Batman killed the Joker in the story.