Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[Micromind]

How is Arthur not the protagonist? The wretched elements of society are antagonistic to him and the plot is his journey/descent, and the trailers even make him out to be an accidental antihero of a reactionary movement.

He is not shown as an antihero like Punisher, this will be clear once Arthur Fleck becomes Joker. I haven't seen the film but there are many people (like those who saw the film at Venice film festival) who say that Joker's behavior is shocking and disturbing, nobody described him as Antihero.

 

[PacificBoy]

He is not shown as an antihero like Punisher, this will be clear once Arthur Fleck becomes Joker. I haven't seen the film but there are many people (like those who saw the film at Venice film festival) who say that Joker's behavior is shocking and disturbing, nobody described him as Antihero.

For sure, will see the movie to get the accurate picture, but going by the trailers alone it does come across that he incidentally inspires a movement.

 

[Reek]

Dexter rings a bell... for 96 hour long episodes

 

[BaelaTargaryen]

Damn he really liked it. Says it will change cinema like The Exorcist did.

 

[Guts]

How is Arthur not the protagonist? The wretched elements of society are antagonistic to him and the plot is his journey/descent, and the trailers even make him out to be an accidental antihero of a reactionary movement.

By definition he is the protagonist. But that doesn't make him the hero.

 

[Schlosser85]

A protagonist is the central viewpoint character of a story. It doesn't make them a hero or "the good guy", although they usually are just because that's how most conventional stories work.

But, for example, Patrick Bateman is the protagonist of American Psycho.

 

[PacificBoy]

By definition he is the protagonist. But that doesn't make him the hero.

Don't disagree, but even Todd Philips says he's the hero of his own story until he isn't when it completely breaks down for him. He's very much the protag.

 

[Arachnerd]

From his perspective, he might think himself a hero, but we the audience will likely feel differently. Again, just because we know he has a sympathetic backstory, it does not fully justify his actions later on.

 

[Guts]

Hero of his own story does not mean he's a good person. From his perspective, he might think himself a hero, but the audience could think differently.

Even Philips said that the movie wants you to sympathize with him but not to forgive him for his actions.

 

[PacificBoy]

The break in audience sympathy prob occurs when his sanity completely gives way, I think that's fair to say and without heading into spoiler territory.

 

[Arachnerd]

Even Philips said that the movie wants you to sympathize with him but not to forgive him for his actions.

See my edited post above for more clarifying thoughts.

 

[Micromind]

Interestingly, in TDKR, Bane was projected as an Antihero to the people of Gotham, who later revealed himself as a villain and in V for Vendetta the protagonist was Antihero.

From his perspective, he might think himself a hero, but we the audience will likely feel differently. Again, just because we know he has a sympathetic backstory, it does not fully justify his actions later on.

Yeah, because in backstory he's Arthur Fleck, who is not an evil person but he transforms into one after becoming The Joker.

His back story may get him some sympathy but his actions after becoming villain do not paint him as a hero. Selectively looking at just his back story to say he's the hero is taking things out of context. (BTW, not directed at you but I wanted to continue the arguments you presented)

 

[FunkMiller]

You're viewing the film within a prism of there must be a Protagonist and there must be an Antagonist. Or that there must be an absolute of either for the entire film.

Dare I say this isn't your standard comic book film when everything is simple.

Some confusion here, I feel.

Protagonist simply means the main character in a story. Nothing to do with whether they are a hero or a villain. Joker is the protagonist of this movie.

Now, I think it’s fair to say that the movie at least attempts to engender some sympathy from the audience for Arthur as the protagonist, which some see as problematic. I guess everyone’s mileage may vary on this, and I can’t make an assessment myself until I see the film.

 

[Arachnerd]

I don't see how Arthur having a sympathetic backstory is a bad thing, unless you believe evil is born and not made.

 

[TMP98]

De Niro chimes in on controversy

 

[Micromind]

After reading many reviews for this, one thing that I find annoying (and I'm not even talking about positive or negative reviews here) is that many critics have mentioned this as a movie set within superhero genre, they should note that it's a comic book movie not a movie that exists within a superhero genre.

 

[NotNickFury]

The only real controversy De Niro spoke of, and even that he said he didn't remember all the details, was the WB and NRA stuff. He was brief on it, but hey, it's something.

 

[Invader Joker]

De Niro chimes in on controversy

Great actor but not a very eloquent person.

 

[TMP98]

Great actor but not a very eloquent person.

He doesn't like doing press, so he always gives monosyllabic answers.

 

[terry78]

Intelligence doesn't always equal eloquence. Some people just like to hear themselves talk and end up not saying a word.

 

[thangaran]

Deniro I think is pretty sharp but he is getting old so that may be contributing but he was never much of a talker in his prior interviews

 

[Travesty]

‘Joker’ Premiere Disinvites Interview Press From Saturday’s Hollywood Premiere

Good, it might make some of these critics mad but who cares. The media wants this movie to fail and hoping something will happen to be able say “ I told you so”.

This movie, man. I swear, this is one of the most bizarre reactions to a movie that I've ever seen. This weird criticism on art and entertainment is seeping into everything now. We've seen it heavily with videogames and standup comedy, and now we're seeing it with theatrical movies. But this level of hysteria is both hilarious and frightening. It's a straight up moral panic. I've never seen anything like it in my lifetime.

I have a feeling when I walk out of the theater on Thursdsay, I'll just be like, "that's what all the fuss was about?".

 

[terry78]

If somebody does take a cue from this movie to go on a rampage you can't really blame the film, blame the creators of the Joker. And even then that's ****ing nuts.

 

[Lencho01]

 

[Schlosser85]

Deniro I think is pretty sharp but he is getting old so that may be contributing but he was never much of a talker in his prior interviews

De Niro's behavior in interviews is no different than it's always been. It's pretty much like pulling teeth to get more than a one word answer out of him.