Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[metaphysician]

I remain somewhat uncomfortable with the positioning of The Joker as a protagonist, and the reasonings behind his actions as portrayed in this movie... however, for anyone to point at Joker (or John Wick for that matter) and say “there’s the problem with US society” ...when school children are literally being butchered, because guns are so freely available to people with either severe mental issues or to actual terrorists, is quite dumbfounding.

So, you are fine with people who have either violently dangerous severe mental issues, or actual murderous terrorist intent, freely walking the streets. . . as long as they kill people with something *other* than a gun?

Perhaps part of the problem is an unwillingness to correctly place blame, because its so much more comforting to assume that if no one had this one inanimate object, than all murderous intent would go away. After all, that would mean there aren't people with actual ill intent out there.

 

[Hollis Mason]

So, you are fine with people who have either violently dangerous severe mental issues, or actual murderous terrorist intent, freely walking the streets. . . as long as they kill people with something *other* than a gun?

Perhaps part of the problem is an unwillingness to correctly place blame, because its so much more comforting to assume that if no one had this one inanimate object, than all murderous intent would go away. After all, that would mean there aren't people with actual ill intent out there.

Look, man, i'm not his biggest fan, but i don't think he's implying that, tbh.

 

[metaphysician]

Yeah, I mean John Wick is about a hitman killing other hitmen who are trying to kill him, because Wick killed someone who killed his dog. And you compare that movie to Joker.

I mean, its almost like "who is being killed and why" is the *entire difference* in the ethics of a situation involving violence. But you know, that is clearly absurd and nonsense.

*rollseyes*

 

[howdoesbaneeat]

All I'm going to say is when a forum like this can go back and forth on the social implications and ethical responsibility of the movie, ya'll should understand why 76% on Rotten Tomatoes is actually pretty great lol.

 

[Hollis Mason]

I guess you could say this movie will break society...

 

[Art Vandelay]

Seems every negative review's biggest complaint is that the movie doesn't have anything to say. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's interesting seeing so many critics being dismissive of the movie, while others calling it a masterpiece.

 

[TheVileOne]

I knew what I was getting here. At the same time, I think they still could've done a Joker movie that's closer to the comics and still make it dark, trippy, moody and depressing.

For starters, a lot of people are complaining that Arthur Fleck is too glorified and sympathetic. Well no not at all.

If they really wanted a sympathetic take on the Joker, they would've done a live-action Killing Joke. That doesn't happen at all here. In Killing Joker, The Joker's backstory shows him as being even more of a victim and almost like a martyr. ****, Batman's basically the ******* who basically transformed an innocent hapless two-bit thug who was in over his head into the Joker.

I'm just saying, if they really wanted a sympathetic, more tragic story for Joker, that's what they would've done.

 

[TheVileOne]

Seems every negative review's biggest complaint is that the movie doesn't have anything to say. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's interesting seeing so many critics being dismissive of the movie, while others calling it a masterpiece.

IMHO, the film has a lot to say, but it's sort of depressing and the questions it asks are unsettling ones. They are not the questions or observations we want to see or hear.

It's like when Joker is dealing with his psychiatrist. Either his words don't reach her, or they are reaching her, and she's absolutely clueless as what to do about it.

Or the way Arthur so easily gets ahold of a gun.

IMHO, it's not a masterpiece. It is fascinating and disturbing though.

 

[Hollis Mason]

I don't judge movies based in how accurate they are to the comics, so i don't really care if they are good adaptations or not. Idgaf, just give me a good movie.
This one is different and original and that's why i consider it a masterpiece. That, and my boi Phoenix. Every scene with him is incredible.

 

[TheVileOne]

At one point in the movie, Arthur writes in his journal something like "It's so tough when you have a mental disorder and everyone expects you to act like you don't have one."'

At another point he gives someone a card pointing out he has a mental condition and people still treat him like garbage.

Secondly, everyone treats Arthur like trash on the bottom of their shoe. I'm not saying it approves of his retaliatory behavior, but is it so surprising that in a world of such moral decay, lack of civility, and decadence that it would give birth to someone like this? Like you treat people like **** they become ****.

This is just my personal interpretation, but I think what it's saying is just the general malaise of Gotham City at the time the film takes place partially causes Arthur to become what he is. It's not the only reason but a big part of it. Like Arthur is syptomatic of how viral Gotham City has become.

 

[TheVileOne]

I don't judge movies based in how accurate they are to the comics, so i don't really care if they are good adaptations or not. Idgaf, just give me a good movie.
This one is different and original and that's why i consider it a masterpiece. That, and my boi Phoenix. Every scene with him is incredible.

You're entitled to your opinion.

To me The Joker is still infinitely more interesting and compelling than the character depicted in this film. As good as Phoenix is here. That's just how I feel and that's just my own opinion.

 

[Hollis Mason]

You're entitled to your opinion.

To me The Joker is still infinitely more interesting and compelling than the character depicted in this film. As good as Phoenix is here. That's just how I feel and that's just my own opinion.

Agree to disagree. To me, showing an innocent mental ill man becoming a true monster without any kind of chemicals between is far more interesting than anything i saw with Joker before, even Killing Joke. Far more tragic, sad and human. Not a cartoonist comic book villain, but a real monster that could exist, but still with that maniac vibe the Joker from the comics gives. A beautiful experiment to show how a real Joker would exist in our world.

 

[Hollis Mason]

Wow this one is getting nothing but pure praise at Letterboxd (which has a lot of users outside America). Pure 5/5 reviews.

 

[Kane52630]

*Hollis Mason reads all 500 reviews from Letterboxd*

 

[Hollis Mason]

*Hollis Mason reads all 500 reviews from Letterboxd*

Yeah, my life is kinda sad...

But you don't really have to read all reviews. There is a rating there.

 

[HBarnill]

This has a lower RT score than The Hangover.

 

[BarryLyndon]

You shouldn't be worried about the Box Office, The movie cost 35 million in production, the rest was for marketing. GA will go see this movie, and wether they like it or not, it will leave a mark. People will talk about this movie, everyone will have their opinion, that is what it is looking for.

Hence why all the festivals.

It is something Marvel will never be able to do, and maybe nobody else in the DC films. A once in a decade.

Todd Phillips said at TIFF : ''It's a bummer (or bunker), have an open mind and be patient'' before showing the film.

So have an open mind and be patient. Take a risk.

The movie doesn't explain everything, you have to figure out some things by yourself
and you live a painful moment with an incredible performance.

 

[Hammer!]

Joker has a lower rotten tomatoes score than the first Scream.

 

[Kane52630]

Joker has a lower rotten tomatoes score than the first Scream.

You know what else has a lower RT score?

 

[Hollis Mason]

This has a lower RT score than The Hangover.

Yeah it's pretty normal with this kind of films. Fight Club, American Psycho, American History X, Requiem for a Dream... honestly i thought reception was gonna be worse. Still, average score is high and is the same than Jojo Rabbit.

 

[TheScarecrow]

Joker has a lower rotten tomatoes score than the first Scream.

That's a classic.

Nevertheless, this is why review aggregators simply don't work. You can't boil an opinion down to a number, thats why critics write reviews instead of just giving ratings themselves.

For instance, Scream has a higher tomatometer, but a lower average rating. It's reviews are far more moderated than Joker's which either has people giving it 5/5 and calling it a masterpiece or 0/5 and decrying that it will destroy the human race as we know it.

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

Joker has a lower rotten tomatoes score than the first Scream.

Oooh, good one. Does Scream have a Venice award for best picture? I don’t think so...

 

[TheScarecrow]

I'm actually optimistic about the Box Office.

Provided the press doesn't succeed in making everyone scared, this doesn't seem like the sort of movie you can not see. It's a water-cooler movie. It's all anyone is going to be talking about for a few weeks.

 

[Hammer!]

Oooh, good one. Does Scream have a Venice award for best picture? I don’t think so...

I thought we were all throwing out random movies with good reviews that happened to have a slightly higher RT score.

Just finished watching Scream.

 

[Holy Slapper]

Oooh, good one. Does Scream have a Venice award for best picture? I don’t think so...

It's funny how a festival no one here gave two ****s about before, suddenly gets thrown out all the time.