Joker "The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached? - Part 2

[mddbatman]

I think this might have been one of the videos Joaquin Phoenix watched when preparing for the laugh, because he talked about watching youtube videos of people suffering from the condition. And he also talked about a video where the guy was choking while laughing. Hope nobody minds me posting this, you might have already seen it.

 

[The Shape]

I would love nothing more than to see Phoenix play The Joker again in any capacity, especially after getting a glimpse of his "fully formed" Joker by the end of the film, but I know it's a pipe dream so it's not something I'll be clamoring for much.

Plus, I'm honestly perfectly content with this Joker film as it is and as a stand-alone. I think the film accomplished what it set out to do in creating a perfectly compelling and realistic "possible" origin for a man who would become The Joker, and carried a strong and meaningful message along with it. With a new Batman trilogy incoming and so many other Batman-adjacent projects out there, I don't think there's an inherent need to follow-up on this story or this version of the character.

Personally, I think a more interesting approach would be for Phillips and Phoenix to make another Joker origin movie in a few years, but based on a COMPLETELY different character (not Arthur Fleck) and offering a completely different take on The Joker -- essentially another "possible" origin. Different period setting, different tone, different series of events, etc. Maybe it could lean towards a more traditional Joker interpretation, with even a fully-formed Batman playing a small part in the story...or maybe even more of a radical departure from the comics we know. I feel like something like this would be what Joaquin himself would be into doing, rather than repeating himself and playing the "same" character again. Joaquin did say he would be interested in doing something Joker-related again with Phillips, but also said he wasn't too keen or interested in facing Batman.

 

[Arachnerd]

CNN going full blown SJW

We've reached a new low in regards to mindnumbingly stupid criticisms about this movie, and the bar was already low to begin with.

 

[Rocanrol]

WTF CNN?

 

[Gladius Nova]

All of the ones who say they want this to stay a stand-alone movie and don’t want a sequel (or a Batman feature with THIS Joker) will be the same ones salivating once they announce it in about 2 months. It’s Hollywood....and it’s inevitable.

 

[Kane52630]

This whole thing is exhausting.

 

[BatLobster]

Don't put the cart before the horse, dude. Enjoy THIS movie. And if this is Joaquin Phoenix's only turn as the Joker that's completely fine. It's still a great movie. If this is only the first one that's completely fine, as well. But let's just enjoy the movie for what it is. This has NOTHING to do with Heath Ledger, his premature premise and that line in "The Dark Knight."

I cannot argue with any of this. You're right. I don't mean to let that overshadow discussion of the film.

But I guess for me what happened was, I really took the unreliable narrator thing to heart, and the ending really hammered that home for me. And it ended up having the effect of serving as a tease for me, that this Joker could perhaps exist in a universe with Batman. That coupled with the fact that the film gave us so little of his full-on Joker, and it's hard to shake some of those thoughts.

I will say though, I'd rather dream about that then get bogged down in the tiresome political backlash, or the backlash to the backlash, etc.

 

[Jekecy]

I totally respect that some people want this to stay totally stand alone and don't want Phoenix's Joker to intersect with Batman in any way.

But...remember how heartbreaking it was when Heath's Joker said, "I think you and I are destined to do this forever..." and the crushing reality set in that we'd never see him again in the role?

It feels kind of crazy to me that here we are 11 years later and now we have a new Joker portrayed by a world class actor that is getting a similar sort of Oscar hype response...and the opportunity to see him return and face off with Batman is right there. And half of us are like, "Meh no thanks". LOL, again I respect everyone's opinion and I get both sides of it, but it's undeniable that from a marketing standpoint it seems like such a great built-in hype angle for whenever Joker pops up in Reeves' universe. I'm already there in terms of viewing the entire Joker film as one of his multiple choice stories, so continuity is a non-factor.

I know I'm not the only one who was resigned to the notion we were unlikely to witness another actor even come close to what Ledger's transcendent performance turned out to be. Yet here are, just a mere 11 years later. And the actor is on record as admitting he's pursuing another way in to reprising.

Those who want Joker to stand alone can very simply skip out on any forthcoming productions featuring Phoenix. No need to poo-poo on everyone else's enjoyment for the future. Godfather 1 and 2 aren't any less of a classic because of 3. No one's forcing you to acknowledge other stories within the same universe.

 

[-JKR-]

Like I said, it's okay either way for me. But the movie itself shouldn't "suffer" in people's eyes just because it's a one and done thing, in case it is.
It's an argument I just can't stand. Just like criticism about how (good) movies are pointless because they "don't propel the universe forward." A movie is great even if it "just" stands on its own. It doesn't necessarily need to have an additional function in order to be great.
But in case they found the right way to have Joaquin Phoenix back in the role, of course I'd be in line to see the movie.

 

[TheScarecrow]

Has this movie destroyed the moral fabric of society yet?

 

[Guts]

I dont think Arthur Fleck is a real person anyway.

 

[Guts]

I think this might have been one of the videos Joaquin Phoenix watched when preparing for the laugh, because he talked about watching youtube videos of people suffering from the condition. And he also talked about a video where the guy was choking while laughing. Hope nobody minds me posting this, you might have already seen it.

This video showed up in my recommendations earlier today.

 

[Karelia]

Some of the articles that are trying to shame this movie are pathetic. And the "scares" at the theaters too... "2 guys caught smoking during the movie making too much noise" "One guy walked in and stared too long." Lord...

 

[TheSmoothKnight]

CNN going full blown SJW

Geez... lol they’re sooo butt hurt right now.

 

[mddbatman]

Also the thing that influenced Joaquins dance moves for the Joker.

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I think it's funny how hard a lot of these outlets are trying to save face because this isn't the movie they thought it was. Saw a clickbait article about how Garry Glitter is gonna get royalties from it. Who the hell cares?

 

[mddbatman]

I think it's funny how hard a lot of these outlets are trying to save face because this isn't the movie they thought it was. Saw a clickbait article about how Garry Glitter is gonna get royalties from it. Who the hell cares?

Obviously you care, why bring it up? Can we not just talk about the film?

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

Obviously you care, why bring it up? Can we not just talk about the film?

Because the hyperbole smear campaign is still going on and they're grasping at straws at this point. it's still very much relevant to the film's success.

 

[mddbatman]

Because the hyperbole smear campaign is still going on and they're grasping at straws at this point. it's still very much relevant to the film's success.

I'm on your side mate, I'd just rather we talked about the things that we loved about the film instead of the negativity coming from elsewhere.

 

[Guts]

I really liked the movie's score. The cello motif throughout the movie does a great job of setting up this feeling of despair for Arthur. What is impressive is that Hildur wrote the music for this movie before it was filmed and based it off of the script rather than the movie itself.

 

[Frodo]

I think the film's success has alot of implications not just for DC films and WB, but for the Genre in general.

1) It reaffirms for WB that their strong suit with regards to cbm are the solo and standalone filmmaker driven films like TDK Trilogy, WW, Joker, Superman 1, Aquaman, Batman 89, etc not the universe building overly connected type of films that alot of fans wanted and that WB tried to create.

2) It's helped open the door to a new type of cbm, i.e. the film about the villain. Venom got there first , but now Joker has also demonstrated that there is potentially new ground for DC and Marvel to mine. You can tell stories about the villain and not limit the villain to an antagonist in their foe's film.

3) The conventional geek pundit and fanboy wisdom about the premise of the film and the film itself was wrong. You could tell a Joker story without "Batman" and audiences would be interested in seeing it.

4) For good or ill, depending on which side of the issue you're on, I think this will push Sony even more to continue with their Spiderverse villain films.

5) I think it means that WB will continue with their "do your own thing" stance with filmmakers like Matt Reeves, Patty Jenkins, etc to make their own films without concern about building up to a team up or referencing other films. I think DC films will be more like an anthology of stories as opposed to a single story spanned over several films.

 

[Micromind]

I think the film's success has alot of implications not just for DC films and WB, but for the Genre in general.

1) It reaffirms for WB that their strong suit with regards to cbm are the solo and standalone filmmaker driven films like TDK Trilogy, WW, Joker, Superman 1, Aquaman, Batman 89, etc not the universe building overly connected type of films that alot of fans wanted and that WB tried to create.

Eh, they can create a successful connected universe too, if they plan it with a some basic guidelines, they did successful Harry Potter series, which was directed by different directors over the years, then there's Conjuring franchise which again has been a successful "connected universe" franchise and they are beginning to get more success with the DCEU movies, the biggest misfire was JL movie but it was a case where nobody cared, so I will take that as an exception than norm.

 

[Frodo]

Eh, they can create a successful connected universe too, if they plan it with a some basic guidelines, they did successful Harry Potter series, which was directed by different directors over the years, then there's Conjuring franchise which again has been a successful "connected universe" franchise and they are beginning to get more success with the DCEU movies, the biggest misfire was JL movie but it was a case where nobody cared, so I will take that as an exception than norm.

Well, I think from WB pov , they probably feel more comfortable doing more stand alone films like Joker than attempting "shared universe" films. Potter is different I would argue than trying to tie BvS, JL, SS together ala the MCU, and I don't think WB see's the Potterverese in the same vein as the DCEU either. I see your point, but I just don't think WB see's it the way you see it. They see the Potterverse and the DCEU as two separate type of animals .

I'm not saying they couldn't pull off shared universe films, but I think in the near term they're gonna stick with what they feel they can do best ,as opposed attempting to do what they've failed to do over a few films.

 

[thangaran]

Unfortunately at the show I attended, there were several guys (i’d say 18-20sh) who reacted to the film by saying to their friends that they are all Team Joker now. What a critically wrong and totally off base reaction to have to the film if there is one. I usually am ok with multiple reactions and interpretations of a film, but I feel the movie was in no way aiming to get one to support the The Joker by the end of the movie given all of the crimes and wrong doings he commits

 

[Lantern Venom]

I think the film's success has alot of implications not just for DC films and WB, but for the Genre in general.

1) It reaffirms for WB that their strong suit with regards to cbm are the solo and standalone filmmaker driven films like TDK Trilogy, WW, Joker, Superman 1, Aquaman, Batman 89, etc not the universe building overly connected type of films that alot of fans wanted and that WB tried to create.

2) It's helped open the door to a new type of cbm, i.e. the film about the villain. Venom got there first , but now Joker has also demonstrated that there is potentially new ground for DC and Marvel to mine. You can tell stories about the villain and not limit the villain to an antagonist in their foe's film.

Point #1: I'm overjoyed for WB. I never thought that they would rebound and have three successful films in a row despite each one having risky aspects.

Point #2 : Venom wasn't a villain in his film. He made some morally questionable choices, but he was ultimately noble. Joker's mistreatment made him more sympathetic than other versions of the character, but he was still revealed to have something dark within him beyond his mental illness. He didn't turn out to be an anti-hero, which is what makes the film's success so tantalizing. I'm not expecting a slew of villain films because of this, but you're right in that these type of films will open up certain avenues for future CBMs that might have otherwise gone unexplored.