"The Joker" in development with Todd Phillips and Martin Scorsese attached?

[Flint Marko]

Tsujihara right now:

 

[Maze]

As for the marketing "nightmare", decades ago people were seeing in cinema two Dracula and James Bond in the Same year.

Nowdays, there are countless reboot ( spiderman? ) there are two supermen at the same time, two flash, and there were two quicksilver running around and so on . There are countless plot hole and inconsistency galore in the Fox Xmen.

After that, If you afraid, that people will be confuse, you do flashpoint, or crisis and (re) introduce the multiverse. Finally, adress the subject in press release, and interview.

Anyways, There will always people who think that Batman Begins is a prequel to Batman 1989. Who care? People just want to experiment something that they will enjoy.

 

[Greens]

Even if after press releases, word of mouth and an extensive marketing campaign people STILL think this movie is connected to Leto's Joker, so what? The movie stands on its own, people can think what they want to think.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Even if after press releases, word of mouth and an extensive marketing campaign people STILL think this movie is connected to Leto's Joker, so what? The movie stands on its own, people can think what they want to think.

This. I don't give a s**t about the marketing nightmare. Take up the challenge and make a good movie out of this premise. If that happens, I'm all aces. All I care about is my enjoyment of the movie. Plus if the movie is good, it'll make bank and WB will move ahead with other risky off kilter projects. That's exciting as hell. I also wanna reiterate that the new production banner is still the most exciting news here. At least to me it is. I won't care if this movie doesn't happen at the end of day but the prospects of WB going ahead with Elseworld adaptations is enough to get me pumped up.

 

[OutOfBoose]

The real news will be when they let Leto go from the role completely. No one should have to suffer through all that again.

 

[jmc]

Folks, the marketing isn't an issue you can easily dismiss. Franchises live off how much investment audiences have with the property. A DC Elseworlds playing along side the DCEU does nothing but make it difficult for audiences to invest into anything. It means there's no consistency across the board, character interpretations, actors, directing style and tone, merchandising and advertising, it means having to juggle so much more. It's one thing if it's a similar story from rival studios, something like dual Sherlock Holmes or Frankenstein movies, but to have rival Batman or Superman movies coming from the same studio at the same time is a recipe for disaster. There's the potential here for one universe to eat away at the other resulting in neither making the kind of returns that would make this idea worth while.

 

[FunkMiller]

Also, this entire plan screams:

THAT OTHER JOKER IS S***! HERE'S A NEW ONE!

...and what's the betting at some point, some genius will try to link it to Ledger?

 

[Flint Marko]

Yeah, jmc's got a point. Not even Sony was dumb enough to put out another version of Spider-man for their ill-conceived "shared universe" so I'd honestly be surprised to see WB actually go through with this.

Also, this entire plan screams:

OUR OTHER UNIVERSE IS S***! HERE'S A NEW ONE!

Fixed for accuracy.

 

[Greens]

WB has definitely considered the points jmc brought up. Maybe that's why they're trying to springboard it with one of their most bankable characters. The Booster Gold movie was also set to be separate from the DCEU. Maybe they said **** it, we're gonna find a place for these alternative ideas.

 

[FunkMiller]

Fixed for accuracy.

Too true. If people don't think this whole idea is one massive middle finger to the existing DCEU, I don't know what to tell them.

Yes, the TV universes are seperate as well, but to announce a whole new, different cinematic version after you've been going in hard on your other one for years speaks very loud and unpleasant volumes.

People are going to excuse this as it being just an 'elseworlds' project, but it's clearly a total lack of confidence in what's already been established.

...and **** it, let's throw this out there:

Is this a backdoor way to have a separate Batman universe from the DCEU? It's this WB hinting that Reeves's Batman will not be DCEU? Raise the idea of creating a Joker movie in a separate continuity... see how it flies... plug Batman in if it's looking popular...

 

[Greens]

Too true. If people don't think this whole idea is one massive middle finger to the existing DCEU, I don't know what to tell them.

Yes, the TV universes are seperate as well, but to announce a whole new, different cinematic version after you've been going in hard on your other one for years speaks very loud and unpleasant volumes.

People are going to excuse this as it being just an 'elseworlds' project, but it's clearly a total lack of confidence in what's already been established.

...and **** it, let's throw this out there:

Is this a backdoor way to have a separate Batman universe from the DCEU? It's this WB hinting that Reeves's Batman will not be DCEU? Raise the idea of creating a Joker movie in a separate continuity... see how it flies... plug Batman in if it's looking popular...

A lot of people here are holding up a middle finger to the DCEU themselves, so it's no surprise that this idea is gaining traction in some circles.

I would be ten times more interested in a Batman universe than the DCEU we currently have. I don't care about Cyborg, I don't care about Flashpoint.

 

[jmc]

WB has definitely considered the points jmc brought up. Maybe that's why they're trying to springboard it with one of their most bankable characters. The Booster Gold movie was also set to be separate from the DCEU. Maybe they said **** it, we're gonna find a place for these alternative ideas.

The other issue is finding the talent who wants to be involved with this. Creative people in general don't want to step on each other's toes, actors and directors try to respect each other's work, and yet WB will be asking talent to essentially try and outdo each other, and I don't know who would want to be involved with something like that. What actor wants to be in a public rivalry with someone else playing the same role on film? There's also the cheapening of the role itself. The Joker should be one of the most sort after characters, you start doing multiple versions and suddenly the character loses its value.

 

[Flint Marko]

I honestly do think the prospect of an Elseworlds-style imprint could be interesting and exciting, particularly in this current era of cinematic-universes, but the current state of the DCEU paints this news in an entirely different light for people like me who have been saying for years now that DC has no plan. I understand why this news would excite some people, but every new announcement just leaves me colder and colder. And for the record: I hate feeling this way. The genre would be in much, much better shape if there was another studio other than Marvel consistently cranking out hits, but alas...

 

[FunkMiller]

A lot of people here are holding up a middle finger to the DCEU themselves, so it's no surprise that this idea is gaining traction in some circles.

I would be ten times more interested in a Batman universe than the DCEU we currently have. I don't care about Cyborg, I don't care about Flashpoint.

Nobody cares about Cyborg. It's kind of his thing

Personally, I think a soft reboot of the existing universe is a far better idea than trying to make other out of continuity movies.

There are people out there who still think Affleck's Batman is the same one as Nolan's.

Can you imagine how confusing a separate Joker from Leto at the same time as Leto would be for them?

 

[Greens]

The other issue is finding the talent who wants to be involved with this. Creative people in general don't want to step on each other's toes, actors and directors try to respect each other's work, and yet WB will be asking talent to essentially try and outdo each other, and I don't know who would want to be involved with something like that. What actor wants to be in a public rivalry with someone else playing the same role on film? There's also the cheapening of the role itself. The Joker should be one of the most sort after characters, you start doing multiple versions and suddenly the character loses its value.

More valid points. I mean, if they can't manage to find talent to be attached to this universe they will just shelve it and focus on salvaging the DCEU. WB is not transparent AT ALL when it comes to their DC movies so it's up in the air what they're even planning right now. They brought in writers and a possible director, but between now and the moment that the script is done they may jump on a new bandwagon.

 

[jmc]

More valid points. I mean, if they can't manage to find talent to be attached to this universe they will just shelve it and focus on salvaging the DCEU. WB is not transparent AT ALL when it comes to their DC movies so it's up in the air what they're even planning right now. They brought in writers and a possible director, but between now and the moment that the script is done they may jump on a new bandwagon.

It wouldn't surprise me if Wonder Woman played apart in this idea given how detached it is from the other movies. I'm starting to think perhaps that film showed them that the best way to avoid comparisons with Marvel is to do standalone movies. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say WB's heart has never really been invested into the DCEU concept.

 

[Flint Marko]

On top of all that's been said, this recent bit of news isn't exactly a glowing endorsement for their giant mega-crossover movie coming out in November.

 

[Greens]

On top of all that's been said, this recent bit of news isn't exactly a glowing endorsement for their giant mega-crossover movie coming out in November.

I think Justice League is a wash, but I'm very interested to see how it will impact WB's plans. Will it be the final straw if JL is a critical and financial disappointment? They poured so much money into this that it's gonna have to make big bank to break even.

 

[Flint Marko]

I think Justice League is a wash, but I'm very interested to see how it will impact WB's plans. Will it be the final straw if JL is a critical and financial disappointment? They poured so much money into this that it's gonna have to make big bank to break even.

They're about to be six films deep into this franchise. No matter how JL turns out (and, like you said, "a wash" seems to be the safest bet), smart money is that they'll still try to make the DCEU work given how massively successful WW was. I also feel that Aquaman could be something special. So hey, maybe they use Flashpoint to give the whole universe a soft reboot and build it around those two. Stick with what works, pretend the Snyder-verse didn't happen, and move forward.

 

[harlequinade]

I think Justice League is a wash, but I'm very interested to see how it will impact WB's plans. Will it be the final straw if JL is a critical and financial disappointment? They poured so much money into this that it's gonna have to make big bank to break even.

It's a mess because after disaster that was BvS and Squad came a success with Wonder Woman.

I imagine Aquaman is going to be great too so it's a mess, success, mess, success. One step back, one step forward and just a whole lot of embarrassing rumors and announcements around it

 

[harlequinade]

They're about to be six films deep into this franchise. No matter how JL turns out (and, like you said, "a wash" seems to be the safest bet), smart money is that they'll still try to make the DCEU work given how massively successful WW was. I also feel that Aquaman could be something special. So hey, maybe they use Flashpoint to give the whole universe a soft reboot and build it around those two. Stick with what works, pretend the Snyder-verse didn't happen, and move forward.

If 2 movies in BvS didn't make them go 'hey you know what we can use DC in another way too and make movies set apart from the universe..." than what the hell kind of movie JL must be when we are 5 movies in....

 

[bapi]

I think this could be really, really good. They have a good writer, Phillips know how to direct and if Scorsese's role is not only for PR. 80s setting, inspired by Marty's movies, lower budget, possibly R-rated... The tricky part is how to deal with his origin but they're not gonna use the nihilistic Ledger/Nolan Joker. This should be a mob movie with dark humor so they should be fine.

Plus let's be honest: Leto's Joker is trash. He'll be there only as a toy for Harley because teens + girls/women were huge into Skwad and HQ.

 

[P Supreme]

Who ask for this? Scorcese or not this is garbage so they not satisfied with the damage they did with Suicide Squad

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Batman 89 is my favorite CBM, and it is a Joker origin movie, so I won't mock this new movie for being that. I will however question their motives behind such decision with everything else they have at hand right now. And then I will probably make fun of the execution if it's terrible and unenjoyable.

 

[Frodo]

I think regardless of how many fans don't like this development, they need to brace themselves for the possibility that Reeve's Batman film will also be separate from the DCEU continuity and that others films going forward are gonna abandon the Marvel style paradigm .

Ultimately, WB did what the fans demanded and gave them a shared universe. Aside from Wonder Woman which itself was quite isolated, the results have been mixed at best. They clearly struggle with it ,and do much better with stand alone's like TDK trilogy and Donner's Superman .

So if its a choice of constantly fixing a shared universe for the sake of having one and pleasing fanboys, or letting filmmakers like Jenkins, Scorsese, Reeves, Whedon, and potentially Matthew Vaughn and Robert Zemeckis, have the creative freedom to tell solid stand alone stories, and make successful films, I think WB is gonna chose the latter option.