The Dark Knight Rises The Joker sized elephant in the room

[BestGirl]

And if this is the end of this Batman, the few months represented in TDK represent in their entirety the supposed life-long ying and yang of two of comic lore's greatest characters.

Really demotes the character of the Joker down the pecking order. Surely some sort of mention could do the character the justice he deserves i.e, in the intervening 8 years he'd been in and out of Arkham but they finally built a cage he could never escape, or something, I don't know.

If the few weeks they squared off against one another in TDK didn't satisfy you then simply mentioning the Joker's name in TDKR shouldn't make you happy, either.

 

[KalMart]

Oh right. Rachel's and Dent's "accidents". Though they probably won't be mentioned either.

Yes, I'm sure that these writers and filmmakers look at things as rudimentarily as you do. Nice.

And if this is the end of this Batman, the few months represented in TDK represent in their entirety the supposed life-long ying and yang of two of comic lore's greatest characters.

In this story, yes. It's a specific version of the Batman mythos all-around, different in a lot of areas from a more traditional/conventional one represented in comics/animation and movies before. If you're just realizing that now.....pretty cool, huh?

Really demotes the character of the Joker down the pecking order. Surely some sort of mention could do the character the justice he deserves i.e, in the intervening 8 years he'd been in and out of Arkham but they finally built a cage he could never escape, or something, I don't know.

You mean the Joker being the biggest struggle of Wayne's life as Batman up to now, and effecting him emotionally for many years after? Yeah, it's like he was never there.

 

[BatLobster]

Well excuse me Mister Pedantic. Okay, conversations between Bruce and GORDAN about Dent and "He Who Shall Not Be Named"

Fair enough, I was intentionally being a stickler there- but only to illustrate a point that writing around Mr. J may feel more organic than some folks might be willing to believe at this point.

 

[jmc]

**** me this thread has officially jumped the shark. Nolan didn't want to mention Joker out of respect for Heath. Why don't some of you selfish whining fanboys just ****ing accept that as a reasonable justification and move instead of whining about not getting your Joker fix? The last 4 pages have been ****ing absurd and screams of nothing more than the typical fanboy ******** we've come to expect over the years, suck it up princessses.

 

[KalMart]

**** me this thread has officially jumped the shark. Nolan didn't want to mention Joker out of respect for Heath. Why don't some of you selfish whining fanboys just ****ing accept that as a reasonable justification and move instead of whining about not getting your Joker fix? The last 4 pages have been ****ing absurd and screams of nothing more than the typical fanboy ******** we've come to expect over the years, suck it up princessses.

Some people still don't like...or can't quite grasp...the idea of an auteur independently having their way with a long-standing character's legacy/mythos, or the like.

 

[Norek]

Like I said before, this thread is like a full circle...

KalMart, I can't believe you had the nerves to endure all this and stick around for so long...

 

[KalMart]

Ultimately, I think I understand how some feel about it and when all is said and done, it's good to discuss these things instead of just dismissing them outright.

 

[Fudgie]

Bringing Jokers name up in this movie is NOT the same as talking about Heath Ledger! Sweet cream on an ice cream sandwich. Nolan fanboys will surely back Nolan to yhe ends of the world on whatever choice Nolan goes with. Heath was a great Joker, just as great as Nicholson, but all the Nolan fanboys need to realize this, Heath =/= Joker. therefore having the Joker in the final movie is no disrespect at all. Why is it so hard to understand that?

Quoted for truth.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Get what? Are you actually having a pop at my intelligence now?

Do we need a mod in here to make you play nice?



Ok, I've obviously hit a nerve with you if you're sinking to personal insults.

In no way did I say the movie would be impossible to follow if they omitted his name. I said they are needlessly omitting the name of a vital component of the Harvey Dent plot.



Thanks Kal. You've been a real eye opener here today.

joker gets it real well

 

[KalMart]

Bringing Jokers name up in this movie is NOT the same as talking about Heath Ledger! Sweet cream on an ice cream sandwich. Nolan fanboys will surely back Nolan to yhe ends of the world on whatever choice Nolan goes with. Heath was a great Joker, just as great as Nicholson, but all the Nolan fanboys need to realize this, Heath =/= Joker. therefore having the Joker in the final movie is no disrespect at all. Why is it so hard to understand that?

Not mentioning his name is NOT the same as pretending he never existed, or not giving weight to what he did. They decided to frame the events of eight years before in a way that is still common knowledge, but not in need to go into in detail because Nolan made a personal decision. That was addressed for him in deciding on it, but in the movie it's framed in an appropriate narrative. Just go with the movie...it's doubtful that it will leave you in confusion as to who was at the heart of the events eight years before it, even if it doesn't spell out the name. That shouldn't be too tough to understand. Don't look at it as being approached like censorship when it comes to mentioning the Joker. Look at it as presenting a point in the story in which he doesn't have to be brought up to still know what he did. It probably won't feel like a hole in the narrative if handled well.

 

[KalMart]

I think the unfortunate thing is that this question was asked and answered before the movie came out. If the movie had played first, and it was done well, then the misgivings would probably have been quelled better first before bringing this up. This unfortunately sets it up and makes it an 'issue' when it really should just play naturally at first and work upon first impression. Probably a good reason why a lot of the information is so guarded before release, but some is bound to get out beforehand with interviews. I just hope that even in light of the awareness and misgivings, that people will still at least be open to the possibility of it working well and feeling right...and not go in with arms crossed and foot tapping when it comes to this. Better to invite what IS there, than looking to point out what isn't.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Bringing Jokers name up in this movie is NOT the same as talking about Heath Ledger! Sweet cream on an ice cream sandwich. Nolan fanboys will surely back Nolan to yhe ends of the world on whatever choice Nolan goes with. Heath was a great Joker, just as great as Nicholson, but all the Nolan fanboys need to realize this, Heath =/= Joker. therefore having the Joker in the final movie is no disrespect at all. Why is it so hard to understand that?

Roid rage!!!

 

[ShadowBoxer]

**** me this thread has officially jumped the shark. Nolan didn't want to mention Joker out of respect for Heath. Why don't some of you selfish whining fanboys just ****ing accept that as a reasonable justification and move instead of whining about not getting your Joker fix? The last 4 pages have been ****ing absurd and screams of nothing more than the typical fanboy ******** we've come to expect over the years, suck it up princessses.[/QUOTE/]

Come on man. There is nothing wrong with people wanting a reference to Joker in DKR considering everything that happened in DK and the fact that he is Batman's defining foe. And this is the final movie in the trilogy.I understand Nolan wanting to respect Heath and his death hit him hard, but no actor is bigger than a character expectially one that's as popular as Joker.


I get where you coming from with fanboys. I was here when it was first announced that Heath was playing Joker and everyone was crying about it or making broke back mountain jokes. But don't make a post bashing fanboys, because I am sure you have complained about something in these movies before.

 

[KalMart]

Come on man. There is nothing wrong with people wanting a reference to Joker in DKR considering everything that happened in DK and the face the he is Batman's defining foe. I understand Nolan wanting to respect Heath and his death hit him hard, but no actor is bigger than a character expectially one that's as popular as Joker.


I get where you coming from with fanboys. I was here when it was first announced that Heath was playing Joker and everyone was crying about it or making broke back mountain jokes. But don't make a post bashing fanboys, because I am sure you have complained about something in these movies before.

Agreed, but we also need to be open to the possibility that it's not a simple snub or omission of the character's influence and effect on the present story. If the actual story acted as if the events of eight years prior never happened or left an impression, then yeah it'd probably be a bit belittling. But I have a feeling especially with the skill of these writers/filmmakers that the 'holes' will be easily filled by the viewers, and that the story told won't suffer from the lack of more narrative involvement of Joker.

I.e...it's a definite move by Nolan, questionable for some, but he probably makes up for it well with what's there.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Remember when the lack of answers, heck, even a mention of the aftermath of fear induced narrows from BB ruined TDK?

 

[KalMart]

Remember when the lack of answers, heck, even a mention of the aftermath of fear induced narrows from BB ruined TDK?

It was a whole 6 months earlier....way too long to remember.

 

[Ryan]

I'm one of the ones that think they should have mentioned the joker in tdkr, but mainly because it seems like everyone else is gettnig mentioned. I don't think that not mentioning him will ruin the movie at all, and I'd find it hard to believe that anyone would think that way. I was pretty surprised though that they showed footage of Heath at the MTV awards. I figured they would have just stuck with the Begins footage and voice overs like the first trailer. Was great to see him up there though and hear the cheers from audience.

 

[jmc]

Come on man. There is nothing wrong with people wanting a reference to Joker in DKR considering everything that happened in DK and the fact that he is Batman's defining foe. And this is the final movie in the trilogy.I understand Nolan wanting to respect Heath and his death hit him hard, but no actor is bigger than a character expectially one that's as popular as Joker.

And what exactly does that reference get us? A connection to the previous film? The film made a billion dollars, everyone who saw that will be seeing this one. So this comes down to nothing more than whining because something isn't going to happen.

I get where you coming from with fanboys. I was here when it was first announced that Heath was playing Joker and everyone was crying about it or making broke back mountain jokes. But don't make a post bashing fanboys, because I am sure you have complained about something in these movies before.

Indeed I have, I don't like Catwoman's costume, but I don't need or even want it to look they way I would have done it, I understand they reason they went with the design they did and I'm cool with that, it's just not my cup of tea.

 

[XtremelyBaneful]

Roid rage!!!

he has a point though, yknow.

 

[hatebox]

If 8 years have passed the lack of a Joker reference isn't too much of a stretch.

 

[Symbiotic]

I sleep better at night pretending that Nolan couldn't come up with a good story reason to mention The Joker.

 

[KalMart]

I sleep better at night pretending that Nolan couldn't come up with a good story reason to mention The Joker.

Or that some folks can't imagine that a good story doesn't have to.

 

[Symbiotic]

Touche.

 

[KalMart]

 

[Kane52630]

edit double post