The Dark Knight The Joker's Plot

[Motown Marvel]

dude, im so sick of these big extravagant destroy gotham city plots....its been done in practically every batman movie. jokers plot had better be more original than that.

 

[FinchersGhost]

While there is nothing to base it on, I think there will be an emphasis on randomness and how people are self-serving - Stop reading if you've avoided the Sides - From what I read in the sides, I took the ferry sequence as an exposition of what people will do for self preservation. I'm willing to bet Joker gave the civilians on the one ferry the ultimatum to either kill the convicts (saving themselves) or being killed along with the cons.

That to me is very Joker. Proving a point while still causing havoc - showing people the darkest aspects of themselves.

I know this is weird, but I imagine Ledger's Joker as a Homicidal Dr. House. Everybody lies. Everybody is selfish.

 

[Catman]

I've been wondering, do you think The Joker will have a final "plot" in THE DARK KNIGHT, or will it be a bunch of random stuff until Batman catches up with him? I've been wracking my brain to come up with something that feels "bigger" than gasing Gotham City (granted, it was just the Narrows), and all I can come up with it poisoning Gotham Reservoir, but that's not neccessarily climactic enough for a blockbuster film.

Nice to see you posting, Guard. Well, anyway, I have a feeling he'll just be doing random stuff and his claim to fame will be creating Two-Face.

 

[Silver Souper]

I'm more interested in a smaller, more personal showdown. Action is great, but I'm always more entertained by character interaction, verbal confrontation, and personal conflicts.

me too. guard's idea isn't bad if it has to be a full-on Gotham attack (again),but i'd rather not see that. a duel is what I want, and one that wreaks havoc throughout. that the joker is so horrific and cut-throat that even his crime spree, though targeting officials and mob bosses, throws the entire city into a panic. i likey...

 

[TheCaptain]

Nice to see you posting, Guard. Well, anyway, I have a feeling he'll just be doing random stuff and his claim to fame will be creating Two-Face.

Come on, is that it? This is Batman's arch-nemesis. He's gotta do something much, much grander than killing a few people and creating another, lesser supervillain.

 

[Nepenthes]

I'm more interested in a smaller, more personal showdown. Action is great, but I'm always more entertained by character interaction, verbal confrontation, and personal conflicts.

dude, im so sick of these big extravagant destroy gotham city plots....its been done in practically every batman movie. jokers plot had better be more original than that.

While there is nothing to base it on, I think there will be an emphasis on randomness and how people are self-serving - Stop reading if you've avoided the Sides - From what I read in the sides, I took the ferry sequence as an exposition of what people will do for self preservation. I'm willing to bet Joker gave the civilians on the one ferry the ultimatum to either kill the convicts (saving themselves) or being killed along with the cons.

That to me is very Joker. Proving a point while still causing havoc - showing people the darkest aspects of themselves.

Ditto. I have the feeling the carnage will scale down towards the end of the film into something more focused and personal. Midway through there'll be hostage situations, a mall bombing, radio threats, assassinations - a reign of terror. Then the scenes on the ferry take a new angle when Jokers' forcing people to hurt each other.

 

[Comic Book Boy]

I've been wondering, do you think The Joker will have a final "plot" in THE DARK KNIGHT, or will it be a bunch of random stuff until Batman catches up with him? I've been wracking my brain to come up with something that feels "bigger" than gasing Gotham City (granted, it was just the Narrows), and all I can come up with it poisoning Gotham Reservoir, but that's not neccessarily climactic enough for a blockbuster film.

Kidnapping Harvey Dent.

Climax would be the rescue/hostage situation/scarring of Dent by The Joker.

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

no Doubt involving something that will destroy Gotham, a bomb, a huge plane that looks like a set of teeth.

either way, i wouldn't expect something small.. no little fight at the end.. it will be a big fight at the end with Harvey being caught in an explosion.

 

[Doc Samson]

I'd like to see something similar to "Five way revenge" where he has specific targets that Batman needs to figure out before its too late. Some of the films touched on it before, but for this one I hope they show Batman's detective side much more. Part of the appeal between the Joker and Batman, at least to me, is the battle of wits. Joker is just as smart as Batman in his own homicidal way, and I want them to play that up, kind of like Deniro & Pacino in Heat with the cat and mouse games...

 

[StorminNorman]

We know that there are scene of Gotham having to be evacuated, as well as the Joker being the cause of the National Guard being brought into the city. There is a major plan here.

Is it the only major plan? Maybe. Miranda's sides pointed towards something involving two ferries - one full of innocent people (delicious). It also pointed to a mall explosion. Of course lets not forget that the Mayor also appears to be a target of a Joker attack.

The question is how does this tie back to Batman #1. Yes, the mayor attack sounds something direct from a Bill Finger masterpiece (Buck Fob Kane) - however surely that is not all. Of course there is no reason to speculate on speculation - so lets just look at the three known plots. Of course you could always add in what appears to be one kick ass bank robbery - but I have a tendency to overlook petty crimes.

What is interesting is that none of these crimes seem remotely connected. What does a mall have to do with ferries? Nothing. The mayor? Nada. Of course there is a common link - chaos. The Joker clearly wants America to watch as one of its greatest cities tears itself apart. This time not because of fear - but because of chaos. Anarchy. The Jokers plan is anarchy.

Hell yea.

 

[FinchersGhost]

Stormin, you always have a way of getting me hyped. It's a gift. Use it for the good of mankind.

 

[StorminNorman]

Stormin, you always have a way of getting me hyped. It's a gift. Use it for the good of mankind.

Of course you are assuming I care about about mankind.

Womankind is so much more fun.

So is alcohol - but alcoholkind doesn't roll off the tongue. Neither does womankind - but it makes me think of a certain female I know - and it fills me with happiness.

Of course then I think about the bizarre nature of that relationship and it makes me confused.

Wait - what was I talking about again?

It is too late

 

[RedIsNotBlue]

As Stormin said I think his overall plot is just anarchy. Just to cause fear, pain, and chaos anyway he can.

 

[The Jengeneer]

I think also the Joker will be doing his crimes not only to cause anarchy or to prove a point but also just because there's someone there to stop him. The theme's been in a few comics, hell he even turned straight once when Batman had disappeared and once he made his appearance again years after, the Joker went insane again and back to crime.

 

[wikum]

Like Norman said, I believe The Joker is going to create all out chaos in Gotham. I do think he will have a reason for it though, however mad the reason is.

 

[Steelsheen]

dude, im so sick of these big extravagant destroy gotham city plots....its been done in practically every batman movie. jokers plot had better be more original than that.

yeah i have to agree with you there. at this point i'd rather have the Joker plot a bit more small scale so long as its uniquely twisted in true Joker-esque way. Joker's chaos isnt always about how many people he affects, its about how sick he can get that affects that much people.

While there is nothing to base it on, I think there will be an emphasis on randomness and how people are self-serving - Stop reading if you've avoided the Sides - From what I read in the sides, I took the ferry sequence as an exposition of what people will do for self preservation. I'm willing to bet Joker gave the civilians on the one ferry the ultimatum to either kill the convicts (saving themselves) or being killed along with the cons.

That to me is very Joker. Proving a point while still causing havoc - showing people the darkest aspects of themselves.

I know this is weird, but I imagine Ledger's Joker as a Homicidal Dr. House. Everybody lies. Everybody is selfish.

so reducing the humanity to the most basic, animalistic level.

its interesting that you compared him to Dr House. Joker isnt all about crazy, thoughtless, random murderer, in a lot of the things he does he makes an awful lot of sense-- like scary sense, like the kind you know is the true reality of things only you dont want to acknowledge it, you know what i mean?

What is interesting is that none of these crimes seem remotely connected. What does a mall have to do with ferries? Nothing. The mayor? Nada. Of course there is a common link - chaos. The Joker clearly wants America to watch as one of its greatest cities tears itself apart. This time not because of fear - but because of chaos. Anarchy. The Jokers plan is anarchy.

yeah that seems to be Joker's motivating factor. just as Batman is trying to preserve the dignity and bring order to Gotham Joker makes it his life's mission to do the complete opposite of Batman's efforts.

 

[FinchersGhost]

so reducing the humanity to the most basic, animalistic level.

its interesting that you compared him to Dr House. Joker isnt all about crazy, thoughtless, random murderer, in a lot of the things he does he makes an awful lot of sense-- like scary sense, like the kind you know is the true reality of things only you dont want to acknowledge it, you know what i mean?

Exactly.

Joker, when he is well written, is extremely intelligent and aware. He's a philosopher who believes that the world and life are devoid of meaning. A mad nihilist with a goal. When I think of a truly evil Joker, I think of that old cliche: Those who can do, do. Those who can't teach.

Only, the Clown Prince does both. He teaches through example.

That was my favorite part of Burton's Joker. His living works of art.

He won't write his philosophy down, he'll show it to you. His grim & violent "perspectives" reflect in his every action.

 

[66 Face]

I'm kind of hoping for the Jokers 5 Way Revenge feel. After getting his plans foiled by Batman at first The Joker goes on trying to take out his former gang members. The thing is that he'll take out subways and buildings full of people trying to kill one guy.

I'm with MM in that I'm sick of the "Gothem must be destroyed" plots. Doing something like TJ5WR puts a lot of people in trouble without overly going into that theme.

I'm also hoping that the Joker is inspired by some classic movies and figures. Sure we all know about Clockwork but The Third Man, The Exorcist, The Warriors and Charles Manson can all be parts of a great Joker.

 

[Darknightnomis]

If the Joker have some kind of Revenge plotted aginst his former gang memebers similar to the classic "5 Way Revenge" storyline, then I will be MORE than satsfied becasue that was the Joker's doing a personal battle of wits against Batman as well as getting his revenge.

I love that part in the story when the Joker actually had a chance to Kill Batman but it was only by blind luck that he got Batman in that positition and he didn't kill him because it didn't happen as an all out battle between him and Batman. That would be great to somehow see that played out on screen.

Plus I must admit I'm a little tired of the save Gotham plotlines in every Batman movie also.

 

[bunk]

Of course you are assuming I care about about mankind.

Womankind is so much more fun.

So is alcohol - but alcoholkind doesn't roll off the tongue. Neither does womankind - but it makes me think of a certain female I know - and it fills me with happiness.

Of course then I think about the bizarre nature of that relationship and it makes me confused.

Wait - what was I talking about again?

It is too late

There's always apekind.


Anyway, I think it would be cool if Bats was seemingly putting together a huge plot by the Joker only to find out in the end there never was any goal and all of Joker's actions were completely random. Bats would then have to start really thinking outside the box in order to stop Joker.

 

[sasquatchs]

Exactly.

Joker, when he is well written, is extremely intelligent and aware. He's a philosopher who believes that the world and life are devoid of meaning. A mad nihilist with a goal. When I think of a truly evil Joker, I think of that old cliche: Those who can do, do. Those who can't teach.

Only, the Clown Prince does both. He teaches through example.

That was my favorite part of Burton's Joker. His living works of art.

He won't write his philosophy down, he'll show it to you. His grim & violent "perspectives" reflect in his every action.

I'd love that kind of Joker.

At the beginning of the film I expect his theatrical robberies and other schemes will be amusement enough for him, without designs against the city. A personal Five-Way Revenge style plot, I expect he has ties to the mob and the bank he robs is operated by the Falcone family, which he wants to destroy. In the meantime he has to fend off increasingly successful attacks from Batman.

Once he starts to feel the squeeze he'll turn his attention to Gotham, using chaos in an attempt to sour the public against Batman and turn the Mayor's attitude towards him from grudging acceptance to serious threat. He'll use "Brian Douglas" as an example on TV, making a mockery of him and focusing everyone's hatred towards the symbol of Batman. At that point he's turned from a symbol of hope to fear and everyone blames him for the escalation.

 

[breyfogle_rules]

I'm kind of hoping for the Jokers 5 Way Revenge feel. After getting his plans foiled by Batman at first The Joker goes on trying to take out his former gang members. The thing is that he'll take out subways and buildings full of people trying to kill one guy.

I'm with MM in that I'm sick of the "Gothem must be destroyed" plots. Doing something like TJ5WR puts a lot of people in trouble without overly going into that theme.

I'm also hoping that the Joker is inspired by some classic movies and figures. Sure we all know about Clockwork but The Third Man, The Exorcist, The Warriors and Charles Manson can all be parts of a great Joker.

Spot on.

 

[The Guard]

What I think happens is this: Joker starts off doing random stuff, and then once Bats gets in his way one too many times, Joker increasingly focuses his madness on Batman himself. Whereas in "Begins" the target was Gotham, I think by the end of TDK, Batman/Bruce will be the target, making it a much more personal film.

Ra's Al Ghul, the man who trained/saved Bruce to begin with, burned down Bruce's home after he forced Bruce to ruin his reputation to save his guests. He was going to shatter the legacy of Bruce's father, via using his train and his water station to destroy his city. Does it get much more personal than that?

I am not of the opinion that what a villain does has to be uber-personal to the hero. Especially when what is personal to the hero is the use of an ideology of hate and fear that he fights against.

I'm more interested in a smaller, more personal showdown. Action is great, but I'm always more entertained by character interaction, verbal confrontation, and personal conflicts.

So am I, but that doesn't mean The Joker won't need something big to anchor the film's climax.

Plus I must admit I'm a little tired of the save Gotham plotlines in every Batman movie also.

It is a bit of a cliche, but then, so are a lot of things. This is the heart of the franchise. Batman's crusade in this franchise, as per Nolan and Goyer, is about saving Gotham. Because Ra's Al Ghul's plot was so ambitious, The Joker needs to do something that will threaten almost everyone in Gotham City, in my mind (Try to kill everyone, not just scare them). While he doesn't have to TOP Ra's Al Ghul's "Gassing Gotham" threat, what he does needs to feel as pivotal a moment in Gotham's history.

I keep wondering why the National Guard is called out.

 

[King Ruler]

I'm with everyone else.

With what we were given at the very end of "Batman Begins", the Joker has just recently surfaced not too long after (if not right after) the defeat of Ra's Al Ghul (though it is possible that he first became the Joker right after the Batman first gained media attention). We know that he has a "taste for the theatrics" (much like Batman) so this could mean that shortly after Jack Napier's (if he goes by that name) accident he became inspired by this dark and broody character, the Batman, to become his complete opposite.

With the introduction of new crime bosses, it could be possible that the Joker will be planning to act as an unexpected wild card and take down fueding gangs so that he can rise to the top as the Clown Prince of Crime, while also causing random mischief and mayhem to either keep Batman occupied or really piss him off (he could also desperately be trying to gain a laugh out of him).

What I want to know is if he will be using his laughing gas in the movie or will he leave Glasgow smiles a la "The Black Dahlia" on his victims faces (or maybe he won't be doing either one)?

 

[The Human Torch]

JTV!

Please tell me it's the infamous Joker TV plan. With mad schemes running through his pirate channel and his personnel anger with The Batman being used, showing the Joker trying to kill the bat on live TV.