The Justice League General & Speculation Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 21

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[STARMAN]

I expect clarity on MOS 2 after JL. As much as I want the film they do not owe it to me but I do want to know where they stand on it.

 

[misslane38]

You just solved your own dilemma. Time travel creates vicious circles. But if you start the story with Barry observing recent events and simply saying: "Something's wrong..." ...you don't need anything else.

What if Reverse Flash (or some other futuristic nemesis) was responsible for the worst angles of DC's dour, pessimistic universe on film so far?

By the way...just because a working title is "Flashpoint" doesn't mean they're doing, you know...Flashpoint.

Inspiration does not have to = precise replication.

Okay, no, what you're saying still makes no sense. If Johns wants to lead the DCEU into a brighter future, then framing Flashpoint as a film that revisits and fixes, to use your words, the existing "dour" and "pessimistic" DCEU, then you still have the same problem as the original Flashpoint story. It's a story about Flash fixing a "dark" timeline that involves several heroes in the DCEU. It's still a dark alternative timeline film with appeareances of other heroes using the DNA of the existing shared universe.

Your version of Flashpoint also makes little sense in other ways. First of all, how would the current Barry even know things weren't right in his world, especially after he just met "friends" who saved the world from a massive Apokoliptian invasion? What would be the clue for this Barry to wake up one day and go, "Hey, this isn't right!" Second, the original Flashpoint story in Barry-centric. It's about showing him finding a way to get his speed force powers back, to come to terms with his mother's death, and to bring other heroes together. Your version would just be using Flash as a conduit for meta-fixing the DCEU and turn him into a god who gets to decide what is right or wrong with the world where he gets to shape it as he sees fit. Awful.

Any version of Flashpoint -- any Flashpoint-inspired storyline -- would have to involve Barry spending a lot of time in a dark timeline. There's no way to tell that story that isn't dark.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

It would've been nice if some effort was made on Vulture's part to hold Johns and Nelson's feet to the fire, rather than giving us their personal spin on what was said.

 

[Herolee10]

I expect clarity on MOS 2 after JL. As much as I want the film they do not owe it to me but I do want to know where they stand on it.

Honestly, IF we ever get a MOS2, I still wouldn't mind them just branching superman off into his own little world just like how they are making several films with Batman's characters, I would just prefer for them to do the same with Superman.

If there is anything concrete that the DCEU has established, it's that Superman works best when he is alone. Whenever you put him in a film with Wonder Woman and Batman, he gets lost in the shuffle.

So rather than trying to contiously shoehorn him into a group and ensemble film that he clearly doesn't belong to, just give him his own film's and his own mini group.

 

[Superherofan123]

Honestly, IF we ever get a MOS2, I still wouldn't mind them just branching superman off into his own little world just like how they are making several films with Batman's characters, I would just prefer for them to do the same with Superman.

If there is anything concrete that the DCEU has established, it's that Superman works best when he is alone. Whenever you put him in a film with Wonder Woman and Batman, he gets lost in the shuffle.

So rather than trying to contiously shoehorn him into a group and ensemble film that he clearly doesn't belong to, just give him his own film's and his own mini group.

I wouldn't mind this, but they should still come back for JL2 and maybe even a Public Enemies type movie.

 

[Talion]

Now, a message from the man of the hour, the man that is going to lead the DC films to the greatness these characters and their fans deserve:

[YT]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JN_r_-OB42M[/YT]

 

[jmc]

So, the DCEU name literally started as a joke. Why am I not surprised.

 

[Jekecy]

So, the DCEU name literally started as a joke. Why am I not surprised.

That's more on us for not fact-checking.

 

[Lighthouse]

That's more on us for not fact-checking.

Eh, I know it seems really minor, but WB should be on top of this kind of thing. They have a problem being in control of the narrative.

 

[jmc]

That's more on us for not fact-checking.

That may be true but it speaks volumes about this franchise as a whole that WB wouldn’t even try and correct it. Whatever they call in internally is not what everyone else calls it, that’s a branding nightmare.

 

[dhandler01]

Sorry, but pot meet kettle. Truth is, neither of us know what really went down so both of our speculation is just that: speculation. It's therefore equally valid, and if you disagree that's fine. We can agree to disagree.

I never said I knew anything nor do I ever pretend to. Hell I even called it a guess.

 

[Limonade]

I have said many times before... Zack was not a good fit for this task and now that it's done--I'm moving on. Let us just get this JL out there and have the chips fall where ever they may, then start fresh.

 

[dhandler01]

BTW it is cute that the clickbait sites are running with the misleading titles...not only is what they are saying a complete twisting of the facts (the shared universe isnt going away) but it isnt even new news. Hell around here we had this very discussion like 3 weeks ago. (Aquaman is standalone but in the same universe just like Wonder Woman) I assume tomorrow they will run with the "JL2 isnt happening" canard again...

I dunno this article doesnt even really change anything for me. For as much as I love the Snyder films the truth is I am in the minority. I also fully know there are ways all of them could be improved (along with other aspects of the DCU) and seeing as I like Johns as a writer I am glad he is the guy who is trying to right the ship. Maybe it works, maybe it doesnt but I will bet the films will be better liked by most people and ultimately that is what makes WB make more films.

WB made mistakes and it seems now they are taking steps to fix them. (starting really with Wonder Woman) When done right we have seen what kind of success can come of it.

And people need to stop calling it "Marvel 2.0" cause that just isnt the case. Wonder Woman was not a Marvel style film. Aquaman looks to be nothing like one either. Justice League for sure isnt one either. Having movies that the majority of the audience likes isnt selling out or trying to be something you are not, it means you are making good movies people like.

 

[chintai80]

BTW it is cute that the clickbait sites are running with the misleading titles...not only is what they are saying a complete twisting of the facts (the shared universe isnt going away) but it isnt even new news. Hell around here we had this very discussion like 3 weeks ago. (Aquaman is standalone but in the same universe just like Wonder Woman) I assume tomorrow they will run with the "JL2 isnt happening" canard again...

I dunno this article doesnt even really change anything for me. For as much as I love the Snyder films the truth is I am in the minority. I also fully know there are ways all of them could be improved (along with other aspects of the DCU) and seeing as I like Johns as a writer I am glad he is the guy who is trying to right the ship. Maybe it works, maybe it doesnt but I will bet the films will be better liked by most people and ultimately that is what makes WB make more films.

WB made mistakes and it seems now they are taking steps to fix them. (starting really with Wonder Woman) When done right we have seen what kind of success can come of it.

And people need to stop calling it "Marvel 2.0" cause that just isnt the case. Wonder Woman was not a Marvel style film. Aquaman looks to be nothing like one either. Justice League for sure isnt one either. Having movies that the majority of the audience likes isnt selling out or trying to be something you are not, it means you are making good movies people like.

exactly.

there's always room for improvement.
WW was not aping Marvel's style at all.
i don't see that happening here.
it's just a refinement of the process they are going through.
the DC movie universe is still going to be its own thing with its own unique identity.

 

[heatvision38]

Good job Geoff Johns, you have managed to alienate a section of fans who supported this DCEU and Snyder's vision since day one, even when WB Execs butchered BvS at the editing table.

Now, some comic book fans who never supported DCEU may get excited by new promises but that is offset by others who have become disinterested in JL, thanks to the Vulture article.

Great job of promoting JL, or should I say he is distancing from the mess that is going to be JL ? From the looks of it, it seems that he is more interested in finding an escape door if JL fails.

Goeff Johns seems to be that guy who never owns up his mistakes or his responsibility, did he ever admit he was also responsible for that the failure of Green Lantern ?

For all the blame we give David Ayer, he at least acknowledged the mistakes he made during Suicide Squad.

Rant about to begin:

This is my thinking. I know this may sound like I'm saying this in hindsight, but I haven't been a big fan of Johns for a while (comic book version of him). I started to dislike the way he was marketing his comics stories and then, in some cases under representing what he was selling (this was before the New 52, which I'll get to in a bit). I stopped reading his comics and just hoped he wouldn't write books that I care about (like Superman or JL) because he became what I think is problematic in comics, which is decompressed writing (it takes 6 issues for a story that really has half the amount of pages in actual content, the rest is splash pages or drawing the story out). I could actually run a blow by blow of how each of his comics stories tend to go.

Anyway, I got frustrated with how he was talking up and then not delivering, imo, on his epic stories... but then came the Green Lantern movie. He talked about it quite a bit, talked about his involvement, and then when it bombed, never said a single word. Not a thing.

I know people can say, "What's he supposed to say? He's gotta tow the company line." And I get that, but it's my job (I mean that literally) to assess people on their behavior, and my sense of Johns is that there is another side to him we don't see. He doesn't seem authentic. So, this is what brings me to the New 52. All this talk about how Geoff Johns is going to bring a lighter tone to the DCEU (I don't even know what it's supposed to be called anymore), he's the savior, as if we are to forget that he was one of the 3 chief architects of the New 52 along with Jim Lee (who does come across as one of the most genuinely nice people you'll see) and snake oil salesman Dan Didio.

In this New 52, the one that got revamped for the lighter Rebirth, Johns wrote JL, and in that, Superman was written as a stubborn jock with an act first, ask questions later, who was aloof from the rest of the team (there was a story in JL, back when they had skipped to 5 years later), and they were all in the Watchtower, and Superman offers some imput to the debate they are having, and Hal goes, "Superman, how are we supposed to trust you. You just float there in the back and never saying anything." This team to this point had been together for 5 years and Superman was still seen as an outsider? That's when I stopped reading the book (not that I thought much of it anyway).

Johns was already responsible for the New 52 versions of Superman, the vacuous, immature Hal Jordan, and the vapid, overly naive and simplistic WW. So, after a few years, people realize they don't like what DC has done with this universe, and now we have Rebirth, and the New 52 Superman has been replaced moreso with classic Superman. And so many people are saying, "Hey, Johns gave us Rebirth and the true heroes back, he will right the ship." But Johns was in large part responsible for why they needed to fix things in the first place!

Every time I see Johns on TV or in interviews, I don't get the best vibe, and it only seems that he comes out to market something or occasionally on twitter to be snarky (he's also made satirical criticism of DC fans/fandom in general in his writings-- Superboy Prime being the most obvious example, showing him in one panel in his basement typing away on the old DC Comics comment board... and I know this was more a commentary on the extreme DC fans, but it still came across as obnoxious because it was so lacking subtlety, not to mention that Superboy Prime himself was meant to be a commentary).

I will say, I always thought Johns' writing would fit better cinematically because he writes his comics that way, which I don't think befits the comics medium. But for TV and movies, it works better. I have liked his Smallville episodes quite a bit (Legion episode and JSA episodes), and I like what he's done with the Flash, for example. But this latest Vulture piece makes it seem like, once again, Johns can do no wrong and it's others that are at fault. Now, it's possible that the article was slanted a certain way and Johns' comments were added with the article author's own commentary, but it doesn't paint Johns in a good light imo, and any attempt to set any records straight or ameliorate the negative perception of the DC--er-EU, was only made worse imo from this article.

Rant over.

 

[Iceman]

Honestly, IF we ever get a MOS2, I still wouldn't mind them just branching superman off into his own little world just like how they are making several films with Batman's characters, I would just prefer for them to do the same with Superman.

If there is anything concrete that the DCEU has established, it's that Superman works best when he is alone. Whenever you put him in a film with Wonder Woman and Batman, he gets lost in the shuffle.

So rather than trying to contiously shoehorn him into a group and ensemble film that he clearly doesn't belong to, just give him his own film's and his own mini group.

It's happened once.

There's no continuously anything. The only thing we've had repeated times is Supes in solo films and that's failed at least half the time too.

We're about to get Avengers films with who knows how many characters. It can be done by talented filmmakers.

 

[jmc]

The article says to me it’s inevitable that this will eventually become a shared universe in name only, although why they would still bother with it at all with no further JL movies being planned is beyond me. The fact this interview was even allowed this close to JL is not a good sign for that movie IMO.

 

[I Am The Knight]

So, the DCEU name literally started as a joke. Why am I not surprised.

 

[heatvision38]

Incorrect. It's driving me bonkers that website are headlining articles that, even THR. Still one universe, with certain movies being team ups, etc etc but with much less obvious connections and intertwining storylines. Think GOTG. Or, they use the example of WW.

This... the article titles made it seem worse than it will probably be. MOS itself, outside of a few easter eggs, was self contained. So was WW. SS mentioned Superman a bit in the beginning, but is otherwise self contained. BvS is the only exception, but that was a joint movie, and of course JL is a a team movie. I mean, they could have easily shown the Amazon mother box in passing in WW, but they didn't, and no big deal (though that would have been cool). As long as it still feels like they are all in the same cinematic universe, I don't see a problem.

 

[Predator jp]

I wouldn't mind this, but they should still come back for JL2 and maybe even a Public Enemies type movie.

i would love that.
tbh i've seen enough solo Batman and Superman movies and shows now it's time for team ups.
let others (WW, Aquaman, Flash etc) shine in solo give me The World's Finest movies.

 

[Longshot777]

The article says to me it’s inevitable that this will eventually become a shared universe in name only, although why they would still bother with it at all with no further JL movies being planned is beyond me. The fact this interview was even allowed this close to JL is not a good sign for that movie IMO.

That's what I've been saying.

JL will be the last chapter and then it will be a free for all.

MOS, BVS, WW, and finally JL.....I know SS is in it but really doesn't flow well with the other 4 if you are going to watch it together...SS is just a fun FILLER.

MOS is the beginning

BVS is the bridge between MOS to WW

WW is the zenith

JL is the end

 

[jmc]

Wonder Woman is by far and away it’s own thing. That’s the template for the future of these characters I believe.

 

[Superherofan123]

I honestly think this film is going to be surprisingly good, and finish in the low 80s on RT. Gotta have faith!