Justice League The Justice League General & Speculation Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 43

[Flemm]

What was being discussed was whether BvS doomed JL to not be profitable. Nobody knows that just as much as nobody knows if a Snyder version would have done better. What we do know is they gambled on their reshot version doing better, spending even more money on it, and it still flopped, creating an even bigger loss for the studio, alienating loyal fans, and producing even more embarrassment. All things considered, I think putting Snyder's version out would have worked better, at least somewhat.

I actually agree, at least to an extent. Not because I'm a fan of Snyder's two prior films in the franchise (I'm really not, though I liked certain things about Man of Steel), but because the extensive reworking of the film seems mostly to have increased expense, negative attention, embarrassment, and a general aura of ridiculousness around the whole thing.

I also *really* didn't like the finished Justice League movie. I found it to be considerably worse than Man of Steel, and worse than BvS. The latter I perceive as misguided in a lot of ways, but at least one can see that there was an attempt to do something interesting and impressive.

If the studio and/or DC didn't want Snyder to make his film, then they should simply have put the film on the shelf after BvS. Or, alternately, if they felt that Snyder's film was a disaster, they could have bitten the bullet, so to speak, and delayed the film at that point, allowing more substantial and coherent changes to be made.

I think we ended up with the worst possible outcome, which is a film that nobody really likes and is mostly a joke, tbh. The most memorable thing about it is the mustache fiasco.

 

[kguillou]

And you know what's sad, not saying the moustache thing is JL's only problem, but IF there had been no CGI moustache scenario and all of Cavill's scenes were filmed naturally and clean shaven, I guarantee you, overall, people's feelings on the movie overall would be better. The VERY first scene of the movie is a CGI Cavill staring right at the audience. Right out the gate that puts people in a WTF? mood and vibe about the film. Imagine if that scene was naturally done? Imagine if ALL of Superman's scenes had not CGI issues?

 

[markjoedelonge]

And you know what's sad, not saying the moustache thing is JL's only problem, but IF there had been no CGI moustache scenario and all of Cavill's scenes were filmed naturally and clean shaven, I guarantee you, overall, people's feelings on the movie overall would be better. The VERY first scene of the movie is a CGI Cavill staring right at the audience. Right out the gate that puts people in a WTF? mood and vibe about the film. Imagine if that scene was naturally done? Imagine if ALL of Superman's scenes had not CGI issues?

I feel like the moustache issue is only there if you're looking out for it because you've heard about it. I watched it with family and friends, and they didn't follow the production problems. They had a great time and didn't notice anything wrong with Cavill when I asked them.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

I feel like the moustache issue is only there if you're looking out for it because you've heard about it. I watched it with family and friends, and they didn't follow the production problems. They had a great time and didn't notice anything wrong with Cavill when I asked them.

My friend who knew nothing about it asked why Superman had such a creepy smile the whole movie.

Sure, not everybody will know. But it's become a meme at this point. Most people are aware of it now.

 

[dougal]

I feel like the moustache issue is only there if you're looking out for it because you've heard about it. I watched it with family and friends, and they didn't follow the production problems. They had a great time and didn't notice anything wrong with Cavill when I asked them.

The first three minutes of the film are here:

https://batman-news.com/2017/12/14/justice-league-first-3-minutes-1080p-hd/

Honestly, the scene is comically bad. The CGI makes him look like the Joker and looks like something from 20 years ago. This is not professional film making. It really isn't.

 

[Flemm]

I feel like the moustache issue is only there if you're looking out for it because you've heard about it. I watched it with family and friends, and they didn't follow the production problems. They had a great time and didn't notice anything wrong with Cavill when I asked them.

To the extent that they gained anything with the revisions, it would be in the area you are describing, which is that very casual viewers might find the film lighter and more entertaining than Snyder's film (also shorter).

But anyway, it doesn't seem to have helped in any substantial way.

A film like this needs to generate enthusiasm, either because of the prior installment leading people to be excited about the sequel, or on its own merits. Ideally both.

This film doesn't have either. So I think the revisions were mostly wasted money, tbh.

Given how quickly Berg and Johns were apparently relieved of their positions with regard to the DC films, I can only guess that the studio felt the same way. Logically, they would have been the voices that primarily argued for the revisions, and for bringing in Whedon.

 

[heatvision38]

You don't spend millions upon millions fixing something that isn't broken.

I think you are giving too much credit to WB here.

 

[TheRedWraith]

I personally could never see the mustache CGI, however it should be said that I was late and missed the very beginning, only getting there a little after the beginning of the Batman Parademon opening scene, and seeing as the movie was steaming pile of mediocre s***, I never went back to see the beginning.

 

[FunkMiller]

Absolutely no one is saying Snyder's cut would have certainly been better, just that it would have been more coherent. Stop spinning things with your fallacies to rile up people.

OMG. You lot and your use of the word ‘fallacy’ when somebody points out something you can’t refute

I’ve seen loads of posts calling for the Snyder version, because the poster thinks it would have been a better to movie to release in cinemas. Whereas the truth is it probably wouldn’t have been... and most of you actually seem to know that!

 

[RomanticPenguin]

Stop spinning things with your fallacies to rile up people.

 

[Flint Marko]

Absolutely no one is saying Snyder's cut would have certainly been better, just that it would have been more coherent. Stop spinning things with your fallacies to rile up people.

This.

l o l

You are accusing me of putting words into others mouth by putting words into mine.

Now you're just being hyperbolic. Sans Justice League, WB has done well this year so far with Wonder Woman, Dunkirk and IT, just to name a few.

They could’ve done well with Justice League too had they released the Snyder/Johns version instead of what we got.

Um.... I'm sorry? Is this up for debate? How is that statement not clearly obvious.

To some it isn’t.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Absolutely no one is saying Snyder's cut would have certainly been better, just that it would have been more coherent. Stop spinning things with your fallacies to rile up people.

 

[Nemeres]

I do agree that for all intents and purposes sticking to Snyder's version would've given them less grief, even if the results had been the exact same. But hindsight might be 20/20. BVS was all Snyder's own and it still lost steam shortly after release, and the fact that he was unable to make the film reach its full potential even at a 2.5 hour running time should've understandably made them lose confidence. The problem with BVS wasn't just the "darkness", I'd say, but the fact that the film is muddled enough that the premise simply loses appeal. The same could've applied to JL, and a Snyder version might not even have been able to earn those initial positive reactions that the film was getting right after the first screenings -- which counted character interactions and traditional "fun" as a plus. Neither being Snyder's strong suit, with particular emphasis on the former.

 

[FunkMiller]

Absolutely no one is saying Snyder's cut would have certainly been better, just that it would have been more coherent. Stop spinning things with your fallacies to rile up people.

 

[Flint Marko]

 

[RomanticPenguin]

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

‘As a fan of BvS and MOS......’

Did you miss that part? Meaning I like Snyders previous movies, so I think I would have enjoyed his version more.

I also said I ‘think’ it would have been a better movie, I didn’t say it was a certainty.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

again if you read my entire post instead of the highlighted part

 

[The Batman]

I mean, judging by the cult like devotion some people show to Snyder, the idea that nobody here thinks the Snyder cut would've been better is a bit ridiculous, whether people flat out say it or not.

 

[FunkMiller]

‘As a fan of BvS and MOS......’

Did you miss that part? Meaning I like Snyders previous movies, so I think I would have enjoyed his version more.

I also said I ‘think’ it would have been a better movie, I didn’t say it was a certainty.

You gave a thumbs up of agreement to SkullDevil’s post accusing me of spinning fallacies with the intent to rile people up. I then post an old comment of yours that proves I’m not.

End of.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

You gave a thumbs up of agreement to a post stating I was creating fallacies with the intent just to rile people up. I then post an old comment of yours that proves I’m not.

End of.

The post was to Flint, not you. So not end of.

And once again, show me where I said Snyders version would have ‘certainly’ been better, you can’t.

 

[Flint Marko]

again if you read my entire post instead of the highlighted part

Don't ya just hate when people cheer on a response to something you never actually said?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Don't ya just hate when people cheer on a response to something you never actually said?

Fair enough, I have seen a few people claim on what Skull said on this board though, when no one has ever actually said Snyders movie would have ‘certainly’ been better or more successful.

I was agreeing with the general sentiment of the post.

 

[FunkMiller]

The post was to Flint, not you. So not end of.

And once again, show me where I said Snyders version would have ‘certainly’ been better, you can’t.

Your post was directly replying to the image I posted. You quoted me.

...perhaps a little lie down might be in order?

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Your post was directly replying to the image I posted. You quoted me.

...perhaps a little lie down might be in order?

No I didn’t quote you. I quoted Skull who hadn’t quoted anyone else, and agreed to what he said. The quote also came straight after a post by Flint. I only quoted you after you quoted me.

Perhaps you need that lie down?