The Last Defenders

Discussion in 'Marvel Comics' started by PhotoJones, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. Dread TMNT 1984-2009

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    Possibly.

    Got to hate the cover art being better than the interiors every month. :p
     
  2. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    Fan Q&A with Joe Casey at Newsarama

    The first question is from our very own RockSP. :)

    Interesting stuff about Valkyrie and Thor. I wonder if she was barred from appearing in TLD because JMS already had plans for her in Thor's comic...
     
  3. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    Yet another interview with Casey

    It sounds like Kyle might die or retire and Joaquin Pennysworth might take over as Nighthawk, based on Casey's comments.

    Shame Atlas isn't sticking around. I really like Atlas and I think he actually fits pretty well with the team, unlike the other two merc Defenders.
     
  4. Dread TMNT 1984-2009

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    Damn, I forgot to bump this topic and don't feel like digging up some of my reviews. Oh, well.

    Frankly, I am disappointed about the Colossus thing. Look in the beginning of the topic, and what were some of my concerns? That She-Hulk would overshadow him, and he'd either be a jobber or do absolutely nothing of consequence. Well, guess what happened? She-Hulk has overshadowed him (looking to appear in 4 out of 6 issues), and Colossus did nothing. His 2 issue tenure was a waste. You could have had any B-List tanker in that role.

    I don't think making Nighthawk a legacy hero is going to work. And why Pennysworth? It reminds me of the new Atom.

    Shame. Colossus getting outside of the X-Ghetto in theory wasn't a bad one. But it remains a theory.
     
  5. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    She-Hulk is basically taking the Hulk's place on the new roster. I'm kind of disappointed that the final team is essentially going to be a 1-to-1 conversion of the original Defenders with new characters who fit nicely into their slots--Hellstrom for Strange, Krang for Namor, She-Hulk for Hulk. But the series has been decent so far and I trust Casey'll have some reason for all of this beyond just making a second-stringer Defenders that's as close to the original roster as possible.
     
  6. RockSP MYTH SMITH ˆž∞!!!

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    Can't really see the point of replacing Richmond.
     
  7. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    Casey asked if Richmond's really been doing a good job as a hero.
     
  8. THANOSRULES Registered

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    IS Richmond OUT as Nighthawk confirmed?

    I thought Casey seemed mum..
     
  9. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    No, it's not confirmed. I just thought it's a possibility given Nighthawk's new fully covered costume, Casey's comment about how ineffective a hero Kyle's been, and the emphasis given to Joaquin Pennysworth in the mini so far.
     
  10. THANOSRULES Registered

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    That would be pretty weird.

    Nighthawk isn't really a character who needs a new persona, he just needs relavent stories to define him.

    It's not like the "nighthawk" is some gold mine going to waste becuase peeps can't identify with him.

    Marvel seems to be creating new heroes out of thin air, why not just make pennysworth a new char. (ugh I could never root for a hero named pennysworth)

    BTW 616 Nighthawk has always been doomed to an extent, especially now with 2 other versions of himself (1 dead) in continuity. He was invented AS a generic Batman clone...so I have really always had a hard time buying him as a serious super hero.
     
  11. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    I've never really been attached to Kyle, so I honestly wouldn't mind.
     
  12. Vanguard07 He who hath rhythm

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    The only reason I started picking up this title is cause Collossus and (to a lesser extent) Blazing Skull.

    Now i'm trying to find some reason to continue following it but so far i've got nothing.
     
  13. TheCorpulent1 SHAZAM!

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    I still like Atlas. I really wish he could've stuck around on the Defenders.
     
  14. Vanguard07 He who hath rhythm

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    Havent really been exposed to much of Atlas. I suppose I dont dislike him but I dont like him nearly enough to follow a title for him.
     
  15. THANOSRULES Registered

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    The line up is doomed in terms of sales, sorta cool though in terms of story potential.

    The people who are gonna buy this thing are most likely hellstrom fans, all 100 nationwide.

    Why is marvel so self rightous about character "saving for certain writers"..why rip off your own team?
     
  16. Dread TMNT 1984-2009

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    To be fair, having Hellstorm on the "final" roster of issue #6 is fine as he was a Defender for a fairly long stretch of time. He was Hellcat's lover and husband for a time, after all. She-Hulk was briefly on a member or whatever that fought The Order in the early 00's.

    It does seem like a straight conversion from the original ones. Casey probably wants to provide some lighter hearted heroics for a mini, which isn't a bad goal unto itself.

    Still, Colossus got shafted. I suppose Blazing Skull did, too. But after all the preview interviews from Newsarama, it almost seems like a waste. Colossus was barely more of a Defender than Havok & Polaris were (they were "Defenders for a Day", as was Paladin, who Kyle hired for his raid).

    Indeed. He has a connection to Kyle, but like I said, it reeks of something DC has been doing; putting minority characters into legacy hero suits to increase diversity. True, Slott & Gage did that with the new 3-D Man, but Delroy was connected to that legacy since the Busiek/Perez run a decade ago. Granted, for a character like Nighthawk, I guess it won't matter too much. I haven't minded Kyle too much. He's not the "best" hero, but he is earnest and usually entertaining. Superhero universes need those lovable B and C listers. They are relatable, and y'know why? Much like in life, not every hero can be the BMOC. Making a new Nighthawk who is a "SHIELD mofo" may not exactly make him Top 10 selling material, either.

    To be fair, the mini has not been selling terribly well since before these announcements. THE LAST DEFENDERS #1 sold at 33k and #2 fell to 25k, landing towards the bottom of the Top 90. It will probably finish outside the Top 100 and I sincerely doubt any ongoing would be coming. A sequel mini may be unlikely, considering THE LONERS was doing about this poorly and reportedly had a bit of editorial support, but that property's been dead since the cameo in the X-MAS 2007 special.

    On the other hand, NO ONE buys those "Fairy Tales" mini's, yet they keep coming (the current AVENGERS FAIRY TALES is selling at 9k, yes, NINE THOUSAND COPIES AND CHANGE. That is less than Marvel Comics Presents and Clandestine).

    Granted, I don't think anyone expected this mini to be a big seller. The Defenders haven't sold well as a franchise for over 20 years, and mostly thrived under Gerber's influence. Plus, Marvel has a glut of team books post-Initiative and things get lost in the shuffle.
     
  17. THANOSRULES Registered

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    Good points dread, But you know as well as I do that Marvel is going to be BIG in to ducats via the movies and DVD sales..which reap ungodly cash beyond comic sales.

    In fact..the argument could be made that comic book sales are actual irrelevant.

    So now they have more play room with some experimental stuff.

    I know Joe Q seems like the consummate businessman..but he's not stupid, and knows some of these books deserve "play"..probably especially when someone he likes or trusts has some serious vision.

    I see this in effect in the Marvel U now. New Warriors sales-wise probably would have been cancelled already, as would Moon Knight. Yet we get our solicits month after month.

    They have seriously upheaved succesful books like HULK sometimes in blind contrast to traditional thinking.

    Frankly , I don't know what rules they are playing by.
     
  18. Dread TMNT 1984-2009

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    I think now that sales have adjusted from the unsustainable highs of the CIVIL WAR year, there seems to be a general rule that so long as you sell in the Top 100, you can remain. Granted, books like MOON KNIGHT, GHOST RIDER and especially NEW WARRIORS are still fading fast and may not see another year.

    Even if Marvel overall is raking in case, it can't waste a lot of money on books that don't perform. Still, it does have more wiggle room and naturally, there seem to be editorial quirks. The Fairy Tales books NEVER sell well at all, but they continue every year. And I have faith that another "Shanna the She-Devil-esque softcore mini" will be published before 2009-2010 and those have NEVER sold well; even the Cho one faltered.

    But really, my only major complaint about TLD, besides Muniz's "hit or miss" art, was being rooked on Colossus. Everyone was like, "Dread, you're fretting, man. Colossus is gonna branch out!" And he didn't. So, :p
     
  19. THANOSRULES Registered

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    Well i guess it would have been cool if Big C branched out, I mean who would root against that.

    But I'm almost tired sickeless of any kind of division. It's almost beyond cliche at this point.

    ..and its always so focused on the big characters. How cool would it be to see Graviton, Shroud or Dr. Demonicus (becuase no one demanded him) in X-men or somthing?

    Master Pandemonium?
     

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