The Dark Knight The man who laughs: The Joker thread

[Crooklyn]

That's just not the Joker though. He's completely psychotic, but he does things to OTHERS, not himself.

 

[Nepenthes]

There was a guy a few weeks ago who suggested that Joker should 'never change his pants'. He was funny. Who was that?

 

["V"]

I just could totally see Joker carving a smile in his face while laughing maniacally. Kind of like the scene in Hannibal, where he convinces a drugged-up laughing Gary Oldman to mutilate his own face.

As for Joker being too vain to do it, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and in his sick twisted mind he coukld think he's making himself look better.

It doesn't even have to be an over-the top carving that tears straight thru to the inside of his mouth, just a skin-deep one enough to leave a smile scar.

And the crazed serial killer angle is much better than having him be an an ex-mob guy out for revenege like in B89.

What in the Joker's history has shown you that he'd start inflicting pain on himself? I can't think of any. I can think of plenty of times where he's wanted to inflict pain on others, both physical and mental.

Interesting point about him trying to improve himself, but it's never been in the character's nature. In any Joker origin he's at first shocked by his new appearance but then completely embraces it with a fit of insane laughter.

Mob guy fits in better with the past of the Joker, as he was a crook in the form of the Red Hood (albiet, maybe a patsy if we go with Moore), but I don't want to see the Napier arc regurgitated. But he's never been some Buffallo Bill type serial killer trying to improve himself.

 

[Leon the Professional]

If in his mind carving a smile into his face will make him look more like he wants to, then it fits with the mindset he has that compels him to dress the way he does. In his mind, he's not hurting himself. He's improving himself.

 

[The Sage]

Oh and he should use syringes instead of gas to poison his victims. Laughing gas would be too much like the fear gas in Begins.

What? No patented Joker laughing gas? Gotta have that. He should use syringes and gas, but mainly gas. With syringes you can only get one person at a time. Laughing gas can intoxicate an entire room. And no big deal with the similarities, as one could say the fear gas in BB was too much like the laughing gas in B89.

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

lets just hope he doesn't try to gas the city..been done in begins.

 

[Leon the Professional]

What in the Joker's history has shown you that he'd start inflicting pain on himself? I can't think of any. I can think of plenty of times where he's wanted to inflict pain on others, both physical and mental.

Interesting point about him trying to improve himself, but it's never been in the character's nature. In any Joker origin he's at first shocked by his new appearance but then completely embraces it with a fit of insane laughter.

Mob guy fits in better with the past of the Joker, as he was a crook in the form of the Red Hood (albiet, maybe a patsy if we go with Moore), but I don't want to see the Napier arc regurgitated. But he's never been some Buffallo Bill type serial killer trying to improve himself.

In my opinion on these types of things, I'm up for changes to comicbook characters and their backstories in the movies, as long as these changes improve upon the character and serve the story well. A couple of good examples are Ra's training and mentoring a pre-Batman Bruce in Begins, and making Crane the head of Arkham Asylum.

When he embraces his appearance with a fit of laughter, would be a good moment for him to carve the smile, by the way.

 

["V"]

What? No patented Joker laughing gas? Gotta have that. He should use syringes and gas, but mainly gas. With syringes you can only get one person at a time. Laughing gas can intoxicate an entire room. And no big deal with the similarities, as one could say the fear gas in BB was too much like the laughing gas in B89.

Joker has used lots of ways to poison his victims. I'm a fan of the needle ring in The Killing Joke. In the laughing fish he poisons his victims in subtle ways, long before they get police protection. I think if he's going to be a shadow for the first part of the film, striking from the shadows, this could be a great way for him to hit his targets.

But I agree, they could use the gas again as long as it's presented in a new way.

 

[Two-Face]

lets just hope he doesn't try to gas the city..been done in begins.

And I said "In BB Gotham's citizens is already poisoned so why Joker would do what Ra's Al Ghul did? Nice read BTW."

I agree.

 

[Leon the Professional]

What? No patented Joker laughing gas? Gotta have that. He should use syringes and gas, but mainly gas. With syringes you can only get one person at a time. Laughing gas can intoxicate an entire room. And no big deal with the similarities, as one could say the fear gas in BB was too much like the laughing gas in B89.

B89 is fifteen years apart from Begins, though, whereas The Dark Knight is a direct sequel two years later.

But okay, I'm cool with the laughing gas, as long as he doesn't rely on it too much and it's not part of his master scheme to gas the city. Mix it up with the syringes.

 

["V"]

In my opinion on these types of things, I'm up for changes to comicbook characters and their backstories in the movies, as long as these changes improve upon the character and serve the story well. A couple of good examples are Ra's training and mentoring a pre-Batman Bruce in Begins, and making Crane the head of Arkham Asylum.

When he embraces his appearance with a fit of laughter, would be a good moment for him to carve the smile, by the way.

Oh, I agree that some changes and alterations and necessary to characters, and can benefit the story.

However, this is not one of them. This is like having Scarcrow sew his mask into his face. How would carving a huge cut into his face be embracing his new appearence, it would be the opposite surely? Showing that he didn't like his new look, and wants to disfigure that as well.

 

[Nepenthes]

I want the movie to open like the Seinfeld episodes. With the Joker guy doing his routine interspersed with the credits, and no one is laughing.

Later on he does the same exact same routine in front of mob guys and they're all cracking up, he hasn't killed anyone yet. But one guy dosn't laugh, or he makes a quip bout Jokers clown face and then he gets it. The poison in his drink.

 

[Crooklyn]

Joker doing stand-up is just plain corny.

 

[Leon the Professional]

Oh, I agree that some changes and alterations and necessary to characters, and can benefit the story.

However, this is not one of them. This is like having Scarcrow sew his mask into his face. How would carving a huge cut into his face be embracing his new appearence, it would be the opposite surely? Showing that he didn't like his new look, and wants to disfigure that as well.

Eh I don't think it's like the same thing.

It's enhancing his new look. He sees the clown resemblance, and embraces it with a wide bleeding red grin. Remember, this wouldn't be premeditated, but a spontaneous act at the moment he collapses into insanity.

 

[Crooklyn]

...or you know, he could just give a nice big grin. Works just as well..

 

["V"]

Eh I don't think it's like the same thing.

It's enhancing his new look. He sees the clown resemblance, and embraces it with a wide bleeding red grin. Remember, this wouldn't be premeditated, but a spontaneous act at the moment he collapses into insanity.

Well it's two characters self mutilating themselves and being completely out of character.

How does it enhance his new look? He already had ruby red lips, he doesn't need a "bleeding red grin". Having him cut his face is total unecessary and over the top. It would also probably impair his speech.

Ledger has a fantastic grin, I don't want them to lose that by going overkill with huge, scarred prosthetics.

 

[kenellard]

For the first time in ages - I completely agree with you.

why thank you! t:

Another point about the whole "self mutilation" angle would be that it doesn't really make sense that he'd think by cutting himself he made himself look better. I've always liked the vain joker character, he truly believes he's a hot guy, and we should remember that Joker isn't any ordinary psychopath, the idea of "hyper-sanity" that's been brought up in the comics could be a great way to explain his personality, he's not just some nut-job, ie, he's sane enough to not slice up his own face, but insane enough to commit all his twisted crimes. I think that'd be a good thing to touch on in TDK

 

[JosephKerr]

Sadly I think Nolan will take the approach the article speaks of. We all know that the Joker's vanity and flamboyance are essential to his character, but I doubt the green hair and purple suit will even happen. Ever since reading that Nolan originally wanted Scarecrow's character without the mask, I knew we were in for trouble. I've mentioned it before, but Nolan's take on everything is almost TOO real. For example, if he had Poison Ivy as a character, he'd probably take out the fact that her lips contained venom and replace the story with her having an STD or something.

 

[The Sage]

lets just hope he doesn't try to gas the city..been done in begins.

As well as B89.

 

["V"]

Sadly I think Nolan will take the approach the article speaks of. We all know that the Joker's vanity and flamboyance are essential to his character, but I doubt the green hair and purple suit will even happen. Ever since reading that Nolan originally wanted Scarecrow's character without the mask, I knew we were in for trouble. I've mentioned it before, but Nolan's take on everything is almost TOO real. For example, if he had Poison Ivy as a character, he'd probably take out the fact that her lips contained venom and replace the story with her having an STD or something.

This is something i've heard so often on this board but have never seen any evidence, can you give me a link? It's disappointing if he thought that, but on the other hand he was humble enough to listen to advice and go with the mask. It shows that if somebody can give him a justified reason he'll go with it. Hopefully Goyer and Jonah will push forward the true essence of the Joker and not some whiny clown who's parents didn't buy him that magic set on his seventh birthday.

I think Nolan has the realistic element balanced perfectly. He takes unlikely elements (Memory cloth) and presents them in a way that feels real and right. He also gave us some of the most "unrealistic" visuals in any Batman film with the fear gas. We had Bale dressed as a gooey, six foot man-bat for crying out loud!!!

 

[kenellard]

Sadly I think Nolan will take the approach the article speaks of. We all know that the Joker's vanity and flamboyance are essential to his character, but I doubt the green hair and purple suit will even happen. Ever since reading that Nolan originally wanted Scarecrow's character without the mask, I knew we were in for trouble. I've mentioned it before, but Nolan's take on everything is almost TOO real. For example, if he had Poison Ivy as a character, he'd probably take out the fact that her lips contained venom and replace the story with her having an STD or something.

Mr. Freeze as a disgruntled ice-cream van driver?

 

[The Sage]

Mr. Freeze as a disgruntled ice-cream van driver?

Classic!! t:

 

[david icke]

quote=kenellard]Mr. Freeze as a disgruntled ice-cream van driver?[/quote]
LOL.Maybe have steve buscemi playin him within the same continuity as trees lounge eh?

 

[Nepenthes]

Mr. Freeze as a disgruntled ice-cream van driver?

A bald guy from Canada who becomes mayor and wants to destroy the American way of life.

(I forget who first posted that - but damn it's great)

(no seriously there was a mob killer called Kruselnicki or something who froze victims alive and kept them in an icecream van to confuse police about time of death. killed over a hundred people)

Joker doing stand-up is just plain corny

He can do it sitting down. I imagine he's playing poker.

All that matters is that it opens like Seinfeld.

 

[Leon the Professional]

Well it's two characters self mutilating themselves and being completely out of character.

How does it enhance his new look? He already had ruby red lips, he doesn't need a "bleeding red grin". Having him cut his face is total unecessary and over the top. It would also probably impair his speech.

Ledger has a fantastic grin, I don't want them to lose that by going overkill with huge, scarred prosthetics.

It's different because Crane (at least in the movie) was corrupt and somewhat sadistic but sane, at least until he gets gased with his own fear gas and tasered in the face. What he does to himself after that in the sequels, if anything, is debatable. But even then, there's a big difference between quickly cutting one's cheeks and sewing a mask to one's face with dozens of stitches.

I've explained the twisted logic behind him scarring himself, I don't think there's anything more to add. You just don't like the idea, and that's completely fine.