The many faces of the Joker. Which is the "real" one?

Discussion in 'The Dark Knight' started by gazzilla8000, Nov 5, 2007.

  1. gazzilla8000

    gazzilla8000 Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2005
    Messages:
    295
    Likes Received:
    0
    With a new picture of Heath as the Joker under our belts it is time to reflect and try and solve the mystery of what exactly the Joker will naturally look like in this movie. One thing is for certain, it won't be consistent.

    [​IMG]

    The first pic we got. The skin looks bleached (there are no visible cracks in the make-up) and the scar is extremely prominent. Also the lipstick is very messy, covering most oh his mouth ear to ear.

    [​IMG]

    Here the scar looks significantly less grusome and the lipstick is much neater. However he is clearly wearing make-up (but is it white make-up or flesh make-up?) It should also be noted that his hair is brown with green running through it.

    [​IMG]

    Seeing as we know the Joker is the Joker from the very beginning of the film, it is clear that at some point the Joker must use flesh make-up as you can see the skin around his eyes in this pic. Also, the hair is brown so he is either wearing a wig or has dyed it.

    [​IMG]

    Its hard to say but the make-up in this pic looks very complete and filled-in. Could be his "natural" skin tone. The lipstick is once again neat but the hair is green to the roots this time.


    Also, if you include the leaked pic of the Joker (the close-up where he is laughing which I can't post here) you will see that his make-up/green hair seems to be coming off, as if he was caught in the rain. His lipstick is also smudged.

    Its really hard to know what to expect. With every new pic I get more confused. Nolan has said he is using the first 2 Joker appearances very strongly in this interpretation of the character. In those comics the medics who work on the Joker are surprised to see his skin as actually white all the way down his body, and the Joker wears skin-toned make-up as a disguise.

    One thing is for sure, Nolan is great with surprises and secrets.
     
  2. jimmy

    jimmy Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,666
    Likes Received:
    0
    n00b, didn't you know that Heath isn't the REAL Joker?

    In one of Nolan's epic plot twists, it is later revealed that the Heath-Joker is just one big Joker set-up by the REAL Joker in order to get his sick kicks, and so, at the end of the movie, we are left with a cliffhanger, as Batman prepares to combat the REAL Joker.
     
  3. RKO

    RKO QT's Personal Consultant.

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,819
    Likes Received:
    0
    None. The Joker is a breathing, evolving creature.

    And isn't it AMH the real Joker?
     
  4. Argyle of Sock

    Argyle of Sock Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2007
    Messages:
    1,156
    Likes Received:
    0
    I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not. :huh: :dry:
     
  5. TheCaptain

    TheCaptain Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    I doubt the way Heath's preparing for the role, he's not the real Joker.
     
  6. Eternalzero

    Eternalzero Grand Master of Yum

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    490
    Likes Received:
    0
    [​IMG]

    ^^^^^^^New picture of the Joker!! ^^^^^^^^
     
  7. TheCaptain

    TheCaptain Registered

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Messages:
    144
    Likes Received:
    0
    nice f***in' model.
     
  8. sglass03

    sglass03 Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm glad someone finally made this topic, because it's clear that Joker's look is changing every time we see a new pic. It's subtle, but it's there - his lipstick has gone from messy to neat and back again, and, as gazzilla points out, the leaked pics have his hair half-brown/half-green, while this new one seems to be all-green. Other spy pics/videos have seen greener hair and whiter makeup, as well.

    There are two things to draw from this. One, it's obvious that, at some point in the film, the Joker goes through some ordeal that ruins/messes up his makeup, probably in the process of getting captured. However, it has to be more than just water - if he indeed does dye his hair green, then it would take more than water to make it run that badly. Perhaps something else is going on?

    Secondly, and this is purely rumor, but a while ago it was talked about how the Joker would become more "Joker-like" throughout the course of the film. Many people attributed this to his mental state - perhaps he starts off crazy, and then becomes totally unhinged/a lunatic as the film progresses, growing more and more insane. But perhaps it also can be attributed to his look, though - his makeup starts off rough and sloppy, because his "persona" isn't totally complete yet. As the film concludes, he's found the "look," and perhaps even finds a way to make it permanent? Just speculation.
     
  9. jimmy

    jimmy Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2004
    Messages:
    9,666
    Likes Received:
    0
    The REAL Joker is the Joker you aren't looking for.
     
  10. sglass03

    sglass03 Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2007
    Messages:
    487
    Likes Received:
    0
    Also, one other thing, though it's partly been touched on already.

    Compare these two pics:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    While we can make allowances for lighting differences, you'll notice in the first photo that Joker's makeup seems to be a very thin coat, almost as if it was hastily slapped on. His hair is also very ragged and very "incomplete," being only partially green (some of the leaked pics confirm this from the same scene.) The second photo, however, shows hair that is clearly greener and "neater," at least on the sides. His makeup also appears thicker - there are cracks/streaks in his face and beneath the eye area that you wouldn't get with just a light coat. He looks more "Jokerish" in the second photo as opposed to the first.

    There's something definitely going on here, but what it is, I have no idea.
     
  11. Gotham

    Gotham Registered

    Joined:
    May 17, 2007
    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    0
    A funny avatar would have made that so much funnier. :o
     
  12. Ibn

    Ibn Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2006
    Messages:
    1,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Christ. When he said the real Joker, he meant in terms of what he'll really look like in the movie.
     
  13. TheBatman072

    TheBatman072 Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2007
    Messages:
    10,610
    Likes Received:
    0
    You know, I think there's a little more physical truth to that little tidbit from Miranda Fox a while ago.

    About Joker growing crazier and more and more Jokerish over the entirety of the film? Maybe that goes for his skin too.

    Maybe we don't SEE the chemical bath, but it happened off-screen earlier. Like during the "intermission" between the monorail crash and the end of Begins. That's definately a possibility.

    And, instead of acting as "insta-bleach," it slowly degrades his skin and hair over time? Over the entirety of the movie? His skin breaks and cracks and turns whiter and whiter, his hair turns greener over time.

    Maybe?
     
  14. NoName86

    NoName86 Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Messages:
    1,449
    Likes Received:
    0
    I don't know, but it seems like a definite possibility. In the new photo there is just something about his skin, it's off. It looks quite wrinkly and odd.

    I am personally thinking now that he probably does just put on make up, either that or they will just leave it as a mystery, but the possibility of him being that pale is always there.
     
  15. The Dark Guybrush

    The Dark Guybrush Mighty Pirate

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,218
    Likes Received:
    0
    eh, i don't think the joker is perma-bleached at all..
     
  16. antonydelfini

    antonydelfini Strange Tales

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2006
    Messages:
    2,372
    Likes Received:
    0
    The people behind this movie know that these pictures of the Joker that they've released will spark a lot of controversies. There's a reason and a purpose for bringing out pics of the Joker that are so obviously different from each other. They know what they're doing. Though the Joker pic with the knife makes Joker looks too human the latest one makes the Joker look like something else entirely more psychotic and more monsterish. There is definitely something going on with this Joker.
     
  17. batmaluco

    batmaluco Run, Batman! Run!

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Messages:
    4,931
    Likes Received:
    0
    lol :woot:
     
  18. Nivek

    Nivek Registered

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2002
    Messages:
    14,850
    Likes Received:
    0
    It all looks the same to me, just different angles and lighting. Some of you are just obsessed about him being Perma-white to the point that your making out that he evolves. No, he just reapplies his damn pancake make-up, because he's a scarred guy wearing Mime/Clown-face.
     
  19. strider

    strider Registered

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2006
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    0
    Nice....I'm going to agree here. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Joker was bleached some how.
     
  20. ultimatefan

    ultimatefan The Batman must come back

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2001
    Messages:
    38,117
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here´s a little piece I wrote a while ago (now updated)...

    WHO HAS THE LAST LAUGH? - A TAKE ON JOKER´S PORTRAYAL

    What all fans have in their minds regarding the portrayal of Joker in The Dark Knight is if this is going to be the “true Joker”.

    And what the hell is that supposed to be again?

    Okay, the question may be a bit hyperbolic, but the matter is relevant: the character has had about as many different takes and interpretations in his decades of existence as Batman himself. Some of those are almost entirely opposite to each other, some have subtler differences. What some fans may call a perfect portrayal of the character may leave others angry to no end. What can we consider to be the essence of the character?

    Looking at his history, there´s a rich variety and yet some quite “definitive” takes in their own right. Of course there´s the original approach where Joker´s a mastermind spree thief and murderer that resembled, in some ways, the zodiac killer – decades before the REAL zodiac killer existed! He´d announce his crimes to the world, go ahead and commit them anyway in very ingenious ways, leaving the police and even Batman puzzled. Then there´s the increasingly lighter approach of the late forties and fifties, where the character became almost the complete opposite of that – a goofy, very clownesque, harmless prankster that would commit preposterous “evil deeds”. Then of course Dennis O´Neil and Neal Adams brought back the homicidal maniac Joker, always two steps ahead, in “Joker´s Five-Way Revenge”.

    One can argue that Steve Englehart and Marshall Rogers somehow found a perfect mix between the prankster and the homicidal maniac in the story “The Laughing Fish”. The Joker comes up with a preposterous plan – he wants royalties for putting his trademark hideous smile on fish! But, as soon as his proposal is refused, he goes out on an elaborate and gruesome killing spree. It can be also argued that this was a major inspiration not only for many Batman comics but also the 1989 feature film, where Joker proposes to be a “homicidal artist” and puts beauty products poisoned with his Joker venom in the market.

    The psychological elements of the Batman comics became more and more present through the eighties and Alan Moore and Brian Bolland took a major step in that direction with “The Killing Joke”. In this story, the character is neither a goofy clown nor an entirely soulless psycho – he can be described as a “philosopher of chaos”, someone who deems humankind so hopeless the only solution is insanity and him and Batman are nothing but two sides of the same coin. Putting a twist on the character´s original background, where he was already a criminal known as Red Hood, Moore makes him a frustrated comedian who decided to commit a crime to help support his pregnant wife and everything goes to hell from there on, the wife dies, Batman stops the crime and the once comedian falls into the chemicals that seal his destiny. This background indeed adds humanity and drama to the character, but it also seems a bit implausible – at least I hope it is - that someone who was for all effects a decent man and a loving husband turns almost overnight into a maniac who kills people with a smile on his face, even after so much tragedy and supposedly immerging completely into some kind of schizophrenic persona. Moore himself never proposed it to be a “definitive” origin, leaving the door open with Joker saying he remembers it in different ways. Because of this, many fans think the character´s origin should always remain an unsolved mystery, and it has been treated this way by many writers. In the 89 movie, the pre-accident Joker not only was already an established gangster, but his head was already kinda screwed up.

    After Moore´s story, in recent years a trend that has become sort of common is Joker causing personal damage to Batman and commissioner Jim Gordon. Starting with crippling Gordon´s daughter Barbara, who was also Batman´s sidekick Batgirl, then he also “killed” the second Robin, Jason Todd – well, it appeared so at the time – and later Gordon´s second wife Sarah Essen. It has also become sort of a repetitive crutch for Batman writers.

    And don´t even get me started on insinuations of Joker having a sort of “crush” on Batman, as implied in “The Dark Knight Returns”, among other stories.

    As weird as that sounds, there IS an essential character element that goes through all those incarnations – yes, even the goofy prankster. And it´s not chalk white skin or a purple suit. The Joker lives in a reality of his own. He doesn´t care for our society´s definitions of normal behavior. He knows he´s insane and he takes pride in being insane. And yet there´s method in his madness. He likes his plans to be elaborate and unusual.

    In terms of his looks, even though his basic facial features have remained more or less the same – the huge grin, pale skin, greenish hair – the way each artist portrays his look has been different, from Kane´s take where his face has relatively normal proportions, to the Neal Adams´ more extreme take on the size of chin and smile, to the smile being perennial in Jack Nicholson´s face in 89 – not to mention his “chubby” physique, pretty different from the skinny comics character – to Brian Bolland´s spin-chilling gaze of insanity to Dave McKean´s nearly monsterish look.

    Looking at everything we read and heard and saw about THE DARK KNIGHT, so far I don´t see any real reason for concern. Particularly, Ledger´s definition of the character as a “pure anarchist” is one that fits the essence of the character, whatever your particular favorite take on him is.

    As much as I love Nicholson as The Joker in the 89 movie, if there´s gonna be a Joker in the new Batman movie, it has to be a fresh take, otherwise, either artistically or commercially, there´s no point to it. It definitely won´t be the goofy clown, which couldn´t be further away from Nolan´s vision for the bat-world. So the question that the fans need to ask themselves isn´t whether it will be the Joker from the comics, even because it´s one with multiple possible answers, but what´s an interesting take on the character from comics that hasn´t been used in a live-action film yet?

    Nolan himself provides an answer, when he mentions the first two Joker appearances and to some extent The Killing Joke as influences. These quotes lead to the “zodiac killer” Joker, which is a villain that isn´t just into mass murder, but into killing a victim right under police´s and Batman´s nose, with protection and counter measures and everything. That would be the material for an amazing cat-and-mouse, battle of wits game. The TKJ and“pure anarchist” statement and the comparison with the movie “The Clockwork Orange” also seems to point to the “philosopher of chaos”, something that´s sort of hinted at in the first movie, but not nearly as explored as it is in TKJ or “Arkham Asylum”. Also lines like "The only sensible way to live in this world is without rules" sound very Killing Joke-like.

    In terms of his looks, we can see most of the characters´trademarks are there, including the white face, green hair and strong lipstick. The makeup around the eyes seems like a homage to the movie The Man Who Laughs, which inspired the creation of Joker, and also his first appearance in comics. As for the makeup being permanent or not, this seems to be still kind of an open debate, and remember, this Joker still will be accidentaly disfigured in a way - the smile scarring -, and I myself think it´s an interesting way to emphasize his insanity if Joker indeed does it to himself. Not to mention Joker embraces his insanity, he doesn´t quite struggle with his disfiguration the way Harvey does, even though he likes to accuse Batman for it - and he may still do it in TDK.

    So, from all we know, yes, it can be said Nolan´s Joker will be the “true” Joker. He may not be your own particular “true” Joker, whatever that is - maybe Nicholson´s Joker, for instance, is pitch-perfect in your book, which is fine too. But he´s likely to retain core elements that have made him special and such an enduring character, in spite of so many different interpretations. To answer my own question from the title, in the end of the day, who has the last laugh?

    The clown prince of crime, of course!
     
  21. shapeshifter

    shapeshifter Registered

    Joined:
    May 29, 2007
    Messages:
    2,659
    Likes Received:
    0
    in a major twist AMH is the real joker at the end of the movie and Heath prepares for surgery at Johns Hopkin's that will make him Harley Quinn.
    :oldrazz:
     
  22. Orb

    Orb Lord of Demons

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2007
    Messages:
    4,597
    Likes Received:
    357
    I wonder when he puts on his make up and in the final scene his make up does not come off.Permanet(Not good at spelling) make-up?:woot:
     
  23. Fran

    Fran Banned User

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2006
    Messages:
    30,129
    Likes Received:
    2
    Wait, can someone PM me this "laughing" Joker picture???
     
  24. ronny

    ronny Registered

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,340
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joker will bleach himself when Batman gets his new costume. He has to keep up doesn't he?
     
  25. Bat-Mite

    Bat-Mite Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2007
    Messages:
    3,576
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's a fine essay you wrote there, dude. Good job on that. :up: I usually don't take the time to read things that long on internet forums, but that one was able to keep my interest long enough for me to read the whole thing.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"