the massive plothole thread

[Agent Orange]

Jonathan Nolan is very self-aware about the surrealistic circumstances surrounding the Joker character in The Dark Knight. In his Creative Screenwriting Magazine interview I recall him saying something to the effect of the Joker being "conjured" out of thin air before the audience sees him on the street corner within the first minute of the movie. In the comics the character often concocts similar schemes (particularly ones using bombs) and he also cheats sure death time and time again. The character represents an anarchic force of nature; the antithesis of Batman. It's symbolism. He's not just a man.

People take the "realistic" description of Nolan's approach to Batman movies too literally. At the end of the day they're still comic book movies and are populated with colourful characters and fantastic situations. Nolan simply tries to disarm audiences with more familiar and grounded settings.

 

[spider-neil]

star wars: a new hope

it is clearly established the death star has the power to destroy planets, yet still the death star takes an ETERNITY to clear the moon of the rebel base planet giving the rebels time to blow up the death star...


why didn't the death star BLOW UP THE MOON and then the rebel base planet?

 

[Agent Orange]

Charging that big laser takes time?

 

[Jennifer Walters]

spider-neil: not learning the definition of plot hole since he made this thread.

 

[SuperFerret]

And you know, public relations.

Alderaan could be written off as an accident during a training exercise and Yavin IV could have been a "Moon? That's no moon." explaination, but you can't blow up three celestial bodies in less than two hours without the press raising eyebrows.

 

[spider-neil]

spider-neil: not learning the definition of plot hole since he made this thread.

not so much plot holes, more things that make little sense.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

This is a thread for plotholes though. Alot of movies could be solved easier if more sense was placed in to them, but for supense and plotting reasons they are written a certain way.

 

[Aesop Rocks]

Yo Harvey Dent, you just up and walk out that hospital?

 

[misjuevos]

batman begins. the steam is released with the toxin in it and it magically stops because the bridges are up?

 

[Monsieur Xavier]

batman begins. the steam is released with the toxin in it and it magically stops because the bridges are up?

Not all Gotham water supply were infected or was it ?

 

[Aesop Rocks]

I thought it affected it as it went over it.

 

[Travesty]

People take the "realistic" description of Nolan's approach to Batman movies too literally. At the end of the day they're still comic book movies and are populated with colourful characters and fantastic situations. Nolan simply tries to disarm audiences with more familiar and grounded settings.

I'm not denying that, but it still doesn't mean there are plotholes littered throughout the movie. Just like the definition goes, if I'm asking questions as to any kind of inconsistency, or something the seems a bit "out there", that's because the movie made a 'blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot'.

Basically, if someone has to defend some things about TDK, and go, "well, The Joker could have done this or could have done that", then that right there constitutes a plot hole, because the movies leaving out relevant information regarding the plot.

I'll tell you what I didn't get about TDK. there is a bullet in the wall that batman cuts out as a block, the next scene an automated gun is firing into several targets...why?

Yeah, I have debated how useless of a scene it is, and how it doesn't make sense. Basically, Bruce needed to find what caliber bullet was shot in the wall, but doesn't make sense, cause he was looking for a fingerprint, which wasn't on the new brick he shot. The only way he could find a fingerprint, was to analyze the brick he originally had. But at the same time, you can't obtain a partial fingerprint to a digital reconstruction, unless the fingerprint was indented within the casing of the bullet, which can't happen with fingerprints. Fingerprints don't make indentations(unless it's paint, blood, putty, etc), that's why they are lifted form objects. The only way to find a partial fingerprint from a casing, would be to dig out the shards within the brick, and reconstruct it manually. After that, dust it down, and try to obtain the print. But I guess Lucius has a psychic computer, as well.

But overall, the 'shooting the blocks' scene in TDK is beyond useless, that doesn't add or explain anything. They cut out the scene that shows The Joker getting into a car after Batman and Rachel fell, but they add a scene that doesn't add anything to the plot, other then to show that Bruce was trying to be a detective. I don't know if it's a 'plothole', so to say, but it doesn't add anything.

 

[Ipodman]

Yo Harvey Dent, you just up and walk out that hospital?

Good point

Maybe he was so tramatised by rachael's death that he lacked the energy to even walk

 

[spider-neil]

Yeah, I have debated how useless of a scene it is, and how it doesn't make sense. Basically, Bruce needed to find what caliber bullet was shot in the wall, but doesn't make sense, cause he was looking for a fingerprint, which wasn't on the new brick he shot. The only way he could find a fingerprint, was to analyze the brick he originally had. But at the same time, you can't obtain a partial fingerprint to a digital reconstruction, unless the fingerprint was indented within the casing of the bullet, which can't happen with fingerprints. Fingerprints don't make indentations(unless it's paint, blood, putty, etc), that's why they are lifted form objects. The only way to find a partial fingerprint from a casing, would be to dig out the shards within the brick, and reconstruct it manually. After that, dust it down, and try to obtain the print. But I guess Lucius has a psychic computer, as well.

But overall, the 'shooting the blocks' scene in TDK is beyond useless, that doesn't add or explain anything. They cut out the scene that shows The Joker getting into a car after Batman and Rachel fell, but they add a scene that doesn't add anything to the plot, other then to show that Bruce was trying to be a detective. I don't know if it's a 'plothole', so to say, but it doesn't add anything.

the scene makes no sense.

is the automated gun shooting rounds to see how bullets break up when they hit a wall?

is the automated gun shooting different bullets?

is the automated guns shooting at different thickness of wall?

weird, weird, weird...

if a computer is reconstructing the bullet plus fingerprint, the automated gun scene serves which purpose?

 

[Travesty]

Yo Harvey Dent, you just up and walk out that hospital?

Haha, one thing that bugged me about this, was that right after Two-Face and Joker have their conversation, Face is still in bed laying around, Joker leaves the room, desensitizes his hands, and then blows up the hallways of where he was at.

I'm just glad that Two-Face had the premonition of getting his burned suit, and dipping out the window as soon as their conversation was over, because Joker blew that sucker up immediately after.

 

[Travesty]

if a computer is reconstructing the bullet plus fingerprint, the automated gun scene serves which purpose?

Exactly.

 

[Ipodman]

Haha, one thing that bugged me about this, was that right after Two-Face and Joker have their conversation, Face is still in bed laying around, Joker leaves the room, desensitizes his hands, and then blows up the hallways of where he was at.

I'm just glad that Two-Face had the premonition of getting his burned suit, and dipping out the window as soon as their conversation was over, because Joker blew that sucker up immediately after.

he isnt good in the kitchen and makes a mess out of his suit everytime.

 

[MOVIELORD101]

BOTH the Fantastic 4 films. Need I say any more?

 

[Majik1387]

What was plothole about them?

 

[scifiwolf]

He's firing control bullets into identical blocks to help reverse engineer how the original bullet fragmented in the apartment so he can put the shards back together in the computer and pull the fingerprint.

 

[misjuevos]

Not all Gotham water supply were infected or was it ?

they had been pouring toxin in the water for weeks and all they needed to do was get to the center of wayne tower and all the mains would blow releasing the toxin that was in all the water supply.
all the water lines along the train were going off as they went from the narrows almost to wayne tower before the machine was stopped. the train crashed close to the tower and the machine was still running till the final explosion. all of the narrows was affected though and it was full of toxin steam that was only separated from the rest of the city by a small body of water. when you see the bridges go up you can see how close the narrows are to the rest of the city. the toxin could easily have been blown toward the city, not to mention all the toxin that was already in the city following the train. when rachel was affected batman tore up the city to get her the antidote. or else she would end up like falcone. they never showed any antidote getting administered to any other people so are they all crazy now? they couldnt get to them all in the time period. gordon says the narrows are lost so i guess they didnt get there in time.

 

[spider-neil]

He's firing control bullets into identical blocks to help reverse engineer how the original bullet fragmented in the apartment so he can put the shards back together in the computer and pull the fingerprint.

but to what end, he ALREADY has a block with a fragmented bullet in it.

 

[The Joker]

Basically, if someone has to defend some things about TDK, and go, "well, The Joker could have done this or could have done that", then that right there constitutes a plot hole, because the movies leaving out relevant information regarding the plot.

No, it doesn't. If you have to ask stuff like "How did Harvey get out of the hospital" then you're not using what's called common sense. Obviously the Joker waited for Harvey to get his s*** together and leave before he left, too, and bombed the hospital.

As for the bullet scene, when inserting rounds, it is common to place the rear of the casing on top of the round at the top of the clip, push down with one thumb on that part, and use your other thumb to push the round backwards, seating it in the clip. When doing this, the thumb of the hand applying the backwards pressure to the round does indeed press firmly against the bullet.

The gunshots were to test different bullet types in hopes of finding what type of bullet was used by (a) matching the hole size made in the concrete and (b) matching the wave patterns between the two blocks of concrete through sonar.

Once the bullet type was determined, Fox's new type of sonar imaging was used in visualizing the bullet fragments and allowing them to be recombined to match the known bullet type. Why the image could be gathered at the new Batcave but only be pieced together at Wayne Enterprises is unclear. It is a plot point which allows the sonar device to resonate an image of a fingerprint since the oil found on someone's skin would not be picked up that easily (or clearly) by a soundwave.

 

[Evil Twin]

The bullet scene was really just an excuse not to have Batman pop the bullet fragments into the Bat computer and get an easy answer. Ultimately the same solution, but this is showing him work for the answer.

Not really a plot hole, but the idea that the main water main for Gotham City runs under a building in Batman Begins is laughable from an engineering point-of-view. Not to mention the fact that the water main was non-pressurized.

 

[david icke]

Haha, one thing that bugged me about this, was that right after Two-Face and Joker have their conversation, Face is still in bed laying around, Joker leaves the room, desensitizes his hands, and then blows up the hallways of where he was at.

I'm just glad that Two-Face had the premonition of getting his burned suit, and dipping out the window as soon as their conversation was over, because Joker blew that sucker up immediately after.

Actually, that's not quite true, the scene cuts away from the Joker having the gun pointed to his head by Harvey, we don't get to see the coin laying unscarred side up, and you could say that more than that takes place we are not allowed to see, so you could say that more time has passed than you have surmised in your post. The Joker could have given Two-Face time to get up, grabs his clothes and leave the hospital, before leaving the room and starting the explosives, and for dramtic reasons Nolan did not show this scene.
In fact, that is what makes perfect sense, as Two-Face is an integral part of Joker's plan, and he would want to make sure he got out safely.
Now, if there was a digital clock in the background of both scenes telling you that he had left right after, that would be different.