The McCain Thread

[Matt]

The scandal will still be brought up, though. It's a valid point, even if nothing ultimately comes out of it. It still casts doubt on her.

One thing I DO know is that the spin around how both sides handle Palin is going to be extraordinary. Biden will have to take a very different tact in how he handles her in the debates than he would a male candidate, but he's fully capable and congnizant of that I would think. In that respect, McCain's move in choosing Palin is smart because it's no longer just a bunch of boys playing rough; there's a woman in the mix and getting too rough with her could be a negative in voter's eyes. However, if McCain just tries to use her as a shield to take pot shots from behind, that too could backfire on him. This will make the next couple of months extremely interesting to watch, no doubt about it.

jag

I was honestly just starting to lose interest before this broke. Now my interest in piqued.

 

[Kelly]

The scandal will still be brought up, though. It's a valid point, even if nothing ultimately comes out of it. It still casts doubt on her.

One thing I DO know is that the spin around how both sides handle Palin is going to be extraordinary. Biden will have to take a very different tact in how he handles her in the debates than he would a male candidate, but he's fully capable and congnizant of that I would think. In that respect, McCain's move in choosing Palin is smart because it's no longer just a bunch of boys playing rough; there's a woman in the mix and getting too rough with her could be a negative in voter's eyes. However, if McCain just tries to use her as a shield to take pot shots from behind, that too could backfire on him. This will make the next couple of months extremely interesting to watch, no doubt about it.

jag

Sure it will, as will all of Biden's scandals over the years.......(there aren't many....).....




I'm just going to sit back, watch the RNC, with as much cynicism as I watched the DNC........I'll watch the debates, and I'll make mind up from there.......

But I have to give it to McCain........this was a jaw dropping announcement.

 

[SuBe]

If he treats her like a queen she gets a free pass. You just said they'll attack her. You're sending mixed signals.



Never-the-less, unless McCain dies on inauguration day, she will still have at least some on-job training.



If Hillary wants to. After the convention, where Hillary hit her home run, I expect her to just slide into the shadows, pray for an Obama loss, and start an exploratory committee for 2012, and if anyone blames her she'll say "Hey, did you see my convention speech? I did what I could."

I agree, it's not Hillary's job anymore. If she does, would that mean that Joe/Barry can't do it themselves? They need a Clinton to prove their Campian has teeth?

 

[Excel]

If he treats her like a queen she gets a free pass. You just said they'll attack her. You're sending mixed signals.

No, I am not. Obama colleagues will say that McCain biggest argument, lack of expirience, must also be thrown out the window along with the diea that McCain doesnt care about women. As Jag already mentioned, Hillary and others will no doubt make it known they feel this choice was an attempt to steal voters. It wont be hard to paint a picture of McCain using poor judgment by picking somebody noy qualified to be President, somethign Obama certainly didnt do.

Never-the-less, unless McCain dies on inauguration day, she will still have at least some on-job training.

Well thats good to know.

If Hillary wants to. After the convention, where Hillary hit her home run, I expect her to just slide into the shadows, pray for an Obama loss, and start an exploratory committee for 2012, and if anyone blames her she'll say "Hey, did you see my convention speech? I did what I could."

With all due respect Matt, youve expected a lot of things to happen with the Democrats this past few months and I dont think any of them have happened. You were arguing with me in May that Hillary would still win. Id be quite surprised if they keep Hillary on the sidelines; infact I think this just means well be seeing a lot from her........wonder if Obama comes out and says hell give some cabinet position to her(?) I dunno, but no doubt theyll get her more invovled now.

 

[jaguarr]

If she really supports Obama. But she's got to toe the line. Also, she should support Obama.

If Hillary wants to. After the convention, where Hillary hit her home run, I expect her to just slide into the shadows, pray for an Obama loss, and start an exploratory committee for 2012, and if anyone blames her she'll say "Hey, did you see my convention speech? I did what I could."

It depends on whether Hillary's overarching political and social ideals and her words about taking this country back from the Republicans are really more important to her than having another shot in 2012. If she opts for the former and really decides to come out for Obama against Palin, Palin's in trouble.

At any rate, it'll be interesting to see how Obama and Biden handle her. There are ways to address her without coming off as woman-bashers or opening up holes in their own campaign.

jag

 

[souvlaki]

If Hillary wants to. After the convention, where Hillary hit her home run, I expect her to just slide into the shadows, pray for an Obama loss, and start an exploratory committee for 2012, and if anyone blames her she'll say "Hey, did you see my convention speech? I did what I could."

Maybe if he picked Romney I could see this. But Hillary will, mark my words, not stand on the sidelines now. This choice will, if anything, really get under her skin, and get her back on the campaign trail with Obama. In the long run this wont make much of a difference. Ferraro did absolutely nothing for Mondale in 1984 with women voters.

 

[Excel]

What? I'm not spinning anything against Obama. I am saying if he attacks a college educated, experienced, governor of a state as a token candidate, he will get torn apart. Thats not an attack, its fact.

No, its not a fact at all. It s a clear attempt to get women votes; thats is an argument full of substance.

 

[souvlaki]

No, its not a fact at all. It s a clear attempt to get women votes; thats is an argument full of substance.

Exactly. That alone will get Clinton involved. If we are talking about it, the media will be talking about it. And if the media are talking about it, eventually Clinton will be talking about it. The media from this choice alone will force Clinton to come out of hiding and start campaigning heavily for Obama. If she doesn't come out strongly against McCain and Palin on the campaign trail then it will be completely obvious everything last week was just for show, and that works against her and any future presidential run for her. If everything last week was for show then McCain just put her in a really crappy situation that really leaves her with no other choice than to come out as Obama's strongest surrogate.

 

[Matt]

No, its not a fact at all. It s a clear attempt to get women votes; thats is an argument full of substance.

No, its not full of substance. Palin brings a lot more to the ticket than a vaginia and if Obama has the nerve to go national tv with any kind of ad that says McCain picked for her vagina (and in turn writes off her entire value as a candidate and human being as being little more than a token with a vagina) then he will experience tremendous back lash.

 

[jaguarr]

No, its not full of substance. Palin brings a lot more to the ticket than a vaginia and if Obama has the nerve to go national tv with any kind of ad that says McCain picked for her vagina (and in turn writes off her entire value as a candidate and human being as being little more than a token with a vagina) then he will experience tremendous back lash.

Vaginia? I thought she was from Alaska!

jag

 

[Franklin Richards]

Aren't we all from Vaginia? Unless of course you were "not borne of woman."


Sorry... I keep having MacBeth flashbacks.

 

[souvlaki]

No, its not full of substance. Palin brings a lot more to the ticket than a vaginia and if Obama has the nerve to go national tv with any kind of ad that says McCain picked for her vagina (and in turn writes off her entire value as a candidate and human being as being little more than a token with a vagina) then he will experience tremendous back lash.

Dont be so naive Matt. This is such a superficial attempt to steal Hillary's voters. There are countless other governors he could have chose that had ten times the experience and substance. He chose her because she's a woman.

 

[Matt]

Dont be so naive Matt. This is such a superficial attempt to steal Hillary's voters. There are countless other governors he could have chose that had ten times the experience and substance. He chose her because she's a woman.

I'm not saying its not true. If Obama says it, it will kill his numbers. That is all I am saying and Excel is claiming I am turning it into some negative Obama rant.

 

[jaguarr]

I'm not saying its not true. If Obama says it, it will kill his numbers. That is all I am saying and Excel is claiming I am turning it into some negative Obama rant.

If Hillary says it, though......oh, boy...interesting times!

jag

 

[souvlaki]

I'm not saying its not true. If Obama says it, it will kill his numbers. That is all I am saying and Excel is claiming I am turning it into some negative Obama rant.

I don't think he will though. Like I said, he'll leave that to countless women surrogates, Clinton included. If Obama had no intentions of begging Clinton to join him on the campaign trail, that changed this morning. I wouldn't be shocked if he wasn't on the phone with her this morning.

 

[jaguarr]

Having Clinton address this is the obvious and easiest way to address McCain's VP choice, but it's not the ONLY way and she can effectively be handled through other means but it will take longer and not have as big of an impact as Hillary standing up and addressing it somehow. Politics is a team sport. What remains to be seen is if Hillary is a team player or not.

jag

 

[souvlaki]

I also don't see this doing much with Clinton voters. This will backfire with them just as much as Obama picking Sebelius would backfire for him. Women are going to see it for what it is, a superficial attempt to win their vote, and it will piss them off.

 

[jaguarr]

I also don't see this doing much with Clinton voters. This will backfire with them just as much as Obama picking Sebelius would backfire for him. Women are going to see it for what it is, a superficial attempt to win their vote, and it will piss them off.

What it WILL do is seal the deal with older, female moderately conservative voters, though. A pretty big chunk of voters, actually.

jag

 

[Matt]

If Clinton does it, and I personally have my doubts that she will. But Jag is right, its not the only way. But I think you guys would like to think it is going to be an easy fix for Obama...and I'm not sure it will be. At least not as much as you'd like to think.

 

[rdh007]

Palin brings a lot more to the ticket than a vaginia

Like?

 

[The Senator]

Last night, I went to bed thinking that McCain would pick one of the two most logical choices for his running mate. Tim Pawlenty, a proven conservative and semi-popular governor of a swing state, or Mitt Romney, a man who claims he's a conservative even though he never governed as one in a state which can't stand him anymore. This morning, when I awoke, I was so pissed off I shouted "Why not Sebelius! We've just lost this ****ing thing!"

Then I thought about what Palin's selection meant several minutes later. For a candidate who pummeled his opponent for being inexperienced, McCain certainly has to put his foot in his mouth now that he has selected someone with only twenty months of experience under her belt as governor. And while he selected a governor as his running mate, he selected the governor of one of the most irrelevant states in the country, a state McCain was almost guaranteed to win anyway (despite how close the polls are there). AND, to top it all off, he picks a governor who is caught up in a corruption scandal on her own, which reeks of the politics Obama spoke out against last night.

So, what does Palin's selection mean? Quite simple: McCain selected her ONLY because she is a young, fairly attractive woman. That is the only reason. There are dozens of other women he could have selected who share similar values as he does. Hutchison, Snowe, Collins, Dole, Rice... but he selected the young one, the inexperienced one, in an attempt to not only get middle aged women to vote for him, but to siphon youth voters into his column as well.

I thought history might have taught John McCain a lesson or two about picking a running mate solely based on gender. The last time that happened, the candidate was not only unqualified for the job, but she herself was involved in quite the scandal. And while she was selected solely because she was a woman, that did not help the ticket at all. People voted for the incumbent president, based on national mood, and the state of the nation at the time. They voted for security, economics, and good feeling. This time, the national mood will also determine this election. Not race, and not gender. I believe this is the biggest blunder in VP politics in twenty-four years.

I applaud McCain for being a trailblazer, I guess. Good luck to McCain/ Ferraro 2.0

 

[jaguarr]

If Clinton does it, and I personally have my doubts that she will. But Jag is right, its not the only way. But I think you guys would like to think it is going to be an easy fix for Obama...and I'm not sure it will be. At least not as much as you'd like to think.

I have this suspicion that Hillary's been offered the Secretary of Health spot so she could help get that national healthcare thing, a major torch issue for her for decades, fully realized. If that's the case. I smell a big cat fight on the horizon. And, no, Hillary alone won't provide full countermeasure, but it sure helps. Especially when the other ways Palin can be addressed come into play.

jag

 

[Matt]

Like?

She makes up for the claims of elitism based on the 7 houses and spoiled son of an Admiral angle the Obama campaign has been running with. She adds family values to the campaign. No one screams family more than Sarah Palin and will definitely help when people try to say "McCain has no family values! He left his wife cause she was crippled!" She brings youth and energy to the ticket. She is a moderate conservative, so she could bring in some independents while also rallying the base. She has a strong economic record. And most importantly, she has been one of the strongest supporters of drilling, which most people seem to support.

 

[Julio Alejandro]

I think McCain just picked up a MILF.

 

[Franklin Richards]

She doesn't sound very moderate to me.