The McCain Thread

[Marx]

Some advisers say that Huckabee is the number one choice.

Please don't ever say that again Jman!

 

[rdh007]

I can see him going with Huckabee. It helps him where he's weakest.

 

[The Senator]

I can see him going with Huckabee. It helps him where he's weakest.

As do I. Huckabee was a popular governor in his home state, and he's popular among social conservatives-- many of whom still have a problem with John McCain. He's charismatic, and secures the south for McCain. It takes Arkansas off the list of swing states, and probably helps McCain in Missouri and North Carolina. Not to mention he has ten years of experience under his belt, so folks won't question whether he's got enough experience for the job.

It seems like a no-brainer. If I was in McCain's shoes, Huckabee would be my pick.

 

[Marx]

As do I. Huckabee was a popular governor in his home state, and he's popular among social conservatives-- many of whom still have a problem with John McCain. He's charismatic, and secures the south for McCain. It takes Arkansas off the list of swing states, and probably helps McCain in Missouri and North Carolina. Not to mention he has ten years of experience under his belt, so folks won't question whether he's got enough experience for the job.

It seems like a no-brainer. If I was in McCain's shoes, Huckabee would be my pick.

But if Clinton was the VP, Arkansas goes back on the "swing state" list.

 

[The Senator]

But if Clinton was the VP, Arkansas goes back on the "swing state" list.

I don't think so. I'd assume that Obama's inability to win over white rural voters, in addition to the adamant racism against him in that part of the country, will be enough to derail his chances in that state. He could probably put Bill Clinton on the ticket and he'd have just as many problems there.

 

[The Senator]

McCain Backer Hagee Said Hitler Was Fulfilling God's Will



John Hagee, the controversial evangelical leader and endorser of Sen. John McCain, argued in a late 1990s sermon that the Nazis had operated on God's behalf to chase the Jews from Europe and shepherd them to Palestine. According to the Reverend, Adolph Hitler was a "hunter," sent by God, who was tasked with expediting God's will of having the Jews re-establish a state of Israel.

Going in and out of biblical verse, Hagee preached: "'And they the hunters should hunt them,' that will be the Jews. 'From every mountain and from every hill and from out of the holes of the rocks.' If that doesn't describe what Hitler did in the holocaust you can't see that."

He goes on: "Theodore Hertzel is the father of Zionism. He was a Jew who at the turn of the 19th century said, this land is our land, God wants us to live there. So he went to the Jews of Europe and said 'I want you to come and join me in the land of Israel.' So few went that Hertzel went into depression. Those who came founded Israel; those who did not went through the hell of the holocaust.

"Then god sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. And the Bible says -- Jeremiah writing -- 'They shall hunt them from every mountain and from every hill and from the holes of the rocks,' meaning there's no place to hide. And that might be offensive to some people but don't let your heart be offended. I didn't write it, Jeremiah wrote it. It was the truth and it is the truth. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said my top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel." (Listen to the audio below.)

The sermon, which was first posted by Bruce Wilson on his site, Talk To Action, adds another element to Hagee's controversial stance on the state and history of Israel. It also may provide a new round of political headaches for McCain who has admitted that seeking out Hagee's endorsement was a mistake, but still declared himself "glad to have" it.

A spokesman for Hagee confirmed the authenticity of the remark, which can be found at around the 1:08 mark of his sermon "Battle For Jerusalem."

Since McCain secured the endorsement, both his campaign and Hagee have been pressed to explain a series of derogatory remarks the Reverend made about the Catholic Church, including his reference to the institution as "the Great ****e."

Hagee has since apologized for those remarks. But his interpretation of the role of the Nazis could be harder to dismiss, in part because McCain and Sen. Barack Obama are expected to compete heavily over the Jewish vote come the general election, in part because McCain has said he admires Hagee's commitment to Israel, but mainly because similar theories have found their way into much of the Reverend's writings.

As Wilson notes, in his 2006 book "Jerusalem Countdown", Hagee proposed the theory that "anti-Semitism, and thus the Holocaust, was the fault of Jews themselves -- the result of an age old divine curse incurred by the ancient Hebrews through worshiping idols and passed, down the ages, to all Jews now alive." He also wrote that "Most readers will be shocked by the clear record of history linking Adolf Hitler and the Roman Catholic Church in a conspiracy to exterminate the Jews."

Hagee is considered, in many political circles, to be one of the most passionate and strident supporters of Israel. He has spoken at AIPAC conferences and leads the evangelical group Christians United for Israel. But his views of the country, while possibly shared by others in the evangelical community, can be, at times, startling. Holding to the belief that Armageddon will come to earth following the reestablishment of the Kingdom of Israel, Hagee has advocated an aggressive war against Iran and has opposed any Israeli military withdrawal from the West Bank.

McCain, at least in the public record, has sought to thread the needle with the Hagee association: distancing himself from the controversial comment while reaping the political benefits of the Reverend's endorsement. Appearing on ABC's "'This Week" in late April 2008, McCain criticized Hagee's past remarks on the Catholic Church, but said that, "I admire and appreciate his advocacy for the state of Israel, the independence of the state of Israel."

Here's the audio:

[YT]ErC1IJeHnyc[/YT]

What a wonderful person

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Well duh, it's called democracy. There will be many people who are going to vote Obama just as there will be many people who are going to vote McCain. Seriously, think before you post about American politics.

Actually,I already know. I meant,that something like this would happen.

*hippie hunter goes to the election*"I'm going to vote for John McCain,because I don't believe in Barak Obama. I like how my country is,and the fact that we are in a recession.*hippie votes for McCain*More of the same,that's what I voted for.

*rumbling is heard,hippie looks around*What?

*hundreds and hundreds barge into the election. They all vote for Obama,hippie looks to see his vote,and the thousands to counter it*

*Hippie walks away* I don't like Obama.

this is why i'm not voting for McCain...



...all politicians are full of $#!+, but at least the Dems aren't as transparent as the Reps. this video perfectly illustrates that McCain is basically George Bush, the 3rd.

Be one of the thousands to counter McCain.

 

[The Senator]

Sigh... If I were you, Gormagon, I wouldn't be making fun of people and their views on the American political system...

 

[Chris B]

I pretty much agree that out the three names being mentioned now, Romney is the only viable choice.

None the less I still think McCain will go with Tim Pawlenty or Mark Sanford for a running mate.

 

[The Senator]

Why isn't anyone talking about John Hagee's ignorant views on Hitler? He thinks the Holocaust was a part of God's will. He thinks Hitler was sent here to fulfill God's mission.

Yet... Jeremiah Wright is the only pastor who matters apparently

 

[Marx]

Why isn't anyone talking about John Hagee's ignorant views on Hitler? He thinks the Holocaust was a part of God's will. He thinks Hitler was sent here to fulfill God's mission.

Yet... Jeremiah Wright is the only pastor who matters apparently

That's because John Hagee is already an established moron on the national stage. Jeremiah Wright is the new kid on the block!

 

[ForestAflame]

Why isn't anyone talking about John Hagee's ignorant views on Hitler? He thinks the Holocaust was a part of God's will. He thinks Hitler was sent here to fulfill God's mission.

Yet... Jeremiah Wright is the only pastor who matters apparently

Because it's a stupid issue to begin with, to judge a person on what their pastor says...

But this is a bit more serious than the Jeremiah Wright situation because McCain sought out Hagee's endorsement. Barack Obama was friends with Jeremiah Wright because he was a pillar of the black community in Chicago and he had many positive things to say about both white and black people. I doubt that Obama attended church every Sunday because most people don't (the white parishioners had no problem with Wright) and, when he learned of the specific controversial statements that were being played over on television, he gave a great speech on race and tried to keep Wright as a friend, but when Wright added insult to injury, Barack disowned him.

Now McCain actually has sought out an endorsement from a widely known bigot?

Way worse when it comes to judgment. There's a difference between having a longtime pastor and friend that sometimes says controversial things and seeking out the endorsement of somebody who says Hitler was God's instrument.

 

[Spider-Bite]

As an Obama supporter I'd like to say I'm getting kind of upset with MSNBC after the way Keith Olberman was handling the story around McCain's pastur. I have been totally disgusted with the way Fox has handled the Reverend Wright story, and MSNBC is doing the same thing to McCain now. McCain is not a gay hater. Like Obama, McCain tries to do what's right even when it hurts his campaign. McCain's support for gay rights is hurting him with his own base, yet he sticks his ground, and instead of getting credit for it, he's being smeared and labeled a gay hater, because of something "somebody else" said.

it's wrong. I'm not voting for John, but he's a good guy. I'd be honored to shake his hand. why can't these religous nutbags shut up? We all know overly religous people say a lot of stupid bigoted things. these pasturs aren't any different from the rest of the world's pasturs. Their comments shouldn't be held against members of their churches, especially when these particular members clearly do not agree with these comments. We all know Obama is not a racist terrorist, and we all know John McCain is not an agent of intolerance.

 

[souvlaki]

Why isn't anyone talking about John Hagee's ignorant views on Hitler? He thinks the Holocaust was a part of God's will. He thinks Hitler was sent here to fulfill God's mission.

Yet... Jeremiah Wright is the only pastor who matters apparently

What kills me about this is McCain was actually seeking Hagee's endorsement. Obama didn't seek Wright's endorsement after Wright went crazy. He had already developed a relationship with that church before Wright turned into a complete wacko. I personally don't think McCain deserves to be judged by Hagee's comments, but I also think it's unfair for the media to play up Wright's comments the way they did, and ignore Hagee's comments.

 

[Matt]

What kills me about this is McCain was actually seeking Hagee's endorsement. Obama didn't seek Wright's endorsement after Wright went crazy. He had already developed a relationship with that church before Wright turned into a complete wacko. I personally don't think McCain deserves to be judged by Hagee's comments, but I also think it's unfair for the media to play up Wright's comments the way they did, and ignore Hagee's comments.

Do you really believe Obama just found out about Wright's extremism? He still gave him a job on his staff. McCain sought an endorsment because he needs the religious base. Plain and simple. I understand that. Obama for 20 years listened to hate speech and then gave the preacher of the hate speech a job on his staff where he was in a position to effect campaign policy. Obama has yet to explain to me why he did that.

 

[The Senator]

I personally don't care what the level of relationship is between McCain and Hagee.

I care about what Hagee said. And McCain sought Hagee's endorsement anyway.

This proves that McCain is a total sell out, and that he's just as much a maverick as the sky is pink. He's willing to turn to anyone to prove he's in touch with "conservative values," he doesn't care at all what that person says, or who he offends. That disgusts me.

 

[Spider-Bite]

What kills me about this is McCain was actually seeking Hagee's endorsement. Obama didn't seek Wright's endorsement after Wright went crazy. He had already developed a relationship with that church before Wright turned into a complete wacko. I personally don't think McCain deserves to be judged by Hagee's comments, but I also think it's unfair for the media to play up Wright's comments the way they did, and ignore Hagee's comments.

Actually the majority of the fiery sermons took place before Obama was a member of the church. Wright was much less controversial during the time Obama was an attendee, which could explain how Obama never heard those sermons.

 

[souvlaki]

Do you really believe Obama just found out about Wright's extremism? He still gave him a job on his staff. McCain sought an endorsment because he needs the religious base. Plain and simple. I understand that. Obama for 20 years listened to hate speech and then gave the preacher of the hate speech a job on his staff where he was in a position to effect campaign policy. Obama has yet to explain to me why he did that.

What I said if you bothered reading is that he had already developed a relationship with the church long before those comments were being made, and yes, I am not completely convinced he found out about those comments more recently than a year or so ago. And there is a huge difference between seeking an endorsement of a known nutcase and sticking by the Pastor of your church over 20 years. It's not like when Obama first attended that church he sought out that church knowing that Wright was a nutcase.

And if you also payed attention to what I said, I said I don't judge McCain based off what Hagee said any more than I judge Obama based off what Wright said. But it's only fair that the media make a big deal over it if they give the same treatment to Wright. Personally I don't think either should be an issue. But why should Wright get attention from the media, and Hagee should be ignored?

 

[Marx]

What I said if you bothered reading is that he had already developed a relationship with the church long before those comments were being made, and yes, I am not completely convinced he found out about those comments more recently than a year or so ago. And there is a huge difference between seeking an endorsement of a known nutcase and sticking by the Pastor of your church over 20 years. It's not like when Obama first attended that church he sought out that church knowing that Wright was a nutcase.

And if you also payed attention to what I said, I said I don't judge McCain based off what Hagee said any more than I judge Obama based off what Wright said. But it's only fair that the media make a big deal over it if they give the same treatment to Wright. Personally I don't think either should be an issue. But why should Wright get attention from the media, and Hagee should be ignored?

They both should be treated equally among the media, but I think the difference is that Hagee is already an established moron on the national stage. Wright isn't, as I said before.

 

[souvlaki]

Actually the majority of the fiery sermons took place before Obama was a member of the church. Wright was much less controversial during the time Obama was an attendee, which could explain how Obama never heard those sermons.

Either way, I don't think Obama was aware of it until 6 months to a year ago, and at that point he had already developed a relationship with the guy.

McCain on the other hand sought out this guy's endorsement knowing full well the guy was a nutcase.

 

[souvlaki]

They both should be treated equally among the media, but I think the difference is that Hagee is already an established moron on the national stage. Wright isn't, as I said before.

Well, exactly. I agree completely.

 

[The Senator]

They both should be treated equally among the media, but I think the difference is that Hagee is already an established moron on the national stage. Wright isn't, as I said before.

Wright has become an established moron on a national stage.

Or at least, he's become incredulous.

 

[Marx]

Well, exactly. I agree completely.

Wright has become an established moron on a national stage.

Or at least, he's become incredulous.

Wright has become established on the national stage NOW. When it first broke, he wasn't. That's my point. Hagee is known to be the way he is, and that is why the things that he says aren't surprising to anyone. No one had ever heard of Jeremiah Wright before, and the media ran with it as a result.

 

[Spider-Bite]

I personally don't care what the level of relationship is between McCain and Hagee.

I care about what Hagee said. And McCain sought Hagee's endorsement anyway.

This proves that McCain is a total sell out, and that he's just as much a maverick as the sky is pink. He's willing to turn to anyone to prove he's in touch with "conservative values," he doesn't care at all what that person says, or who he offends. That disgusts me.

it does not make him a sell out. If McCain was selling out he'd be gay bashing, the way his base voters want him to.

is he not allowed to make any effort whatsoever to get elected? What world are you living in? He lives in a world of politics, where sometimes you have to do things you don't like. If he believes that the benefits to this country of him being President outweight the negatives of having that endorsement, which he rejected, than that is what he should do.

I'm not even voting for McCain. I'm voting for Obama, but I am happy that for once this election will be between two patriots who actually care about what's good for this world, instead of putting their own personal interests ahead of the world.

 

[Marx]

it does not make him a sell out. If McCain was selling out he'd be gay bashing, the way his base voters want him to.

is he not allowed to make any effort whatsoever to get elected? What world are you living in? He lives in a world of politics, where sometimes you have to do things you don't like. If he believes that the benefits to this country of him being President outweight the negatives of having that endorsement, which he rejected, than that is what he should do.

I'm not even voting for McCain. I'm voting for Obama, but I am happy that for once this election will be between two patriots who actually care about what's good for this world, instead of putting their own personal interests ahead of the world.

They are both politicians and I can assure you that they BOTH have personal interests and agendas.