The McCain Thread

[Mr Sparkle]

your argument would be correct.
my comment was for neither as both are running a shameful/sophomoric campaign.
it's idiocy that I'd expect from my country were soap operas rule, not the US.
there's no model to follow then, if you catch my drift.

 

[DorkyFresh]

Has John McCain overplayed the POW Card?

[YT]FdZjZIh-750[/YT]

i honestly think he has. it seems to me like McCain practically gets a free pass just because he was a POW similar to the way Bush and co. got a free pass because of 9/11. i understand that being a POW is something that many people admire, but i, personally, think McCain takes too much honor and pride in being a former POW.

 

[SuBe]

Has John McCain overplayed the POW Card?



i honestly think he has. it seems to me like McCain practically gets a free pass just because he was a POW similar to the way Bush and co. got a free pass because of 9/11. i understand that being a POW is something that many people admire, but i, personally, think McCain takes too much honor and pride in being a former POW.

Should he be ashamed of being a POW?

 

[The Senator]

Should he be ashamed of being a POW?

McCain shouldn't be ashamed for being a POW. However, his campaign shouldn't use his status as a POW as an aside whenever it is asked difficult questions. When his mother was asked about McCain's divorce, she began talking about how he was a POW. On Leno, when McCain was asked to seriously tell everyone how many houses he owned, he started talking about how he was a POW. POW this, POW that. Just because he was tortured for five years, doesn't mean that he's worthy of the presidency. He should give real answers instead of changing the subject to something totally irrelevant to the conversation.

 

[kainedamo]

Should he be ashamed of being a POW?

It's his response to everything. He brings it up everytime he opens his mouth.

 

[jaguarr]

Should he be ashamed of being a POW?

I don't think anyone is saying that. I think people are tired of hearing him NOT answer questions by referencing the always unrelated POW facets of his personal history and acting as if he shouldn't have to answer such questions just because he was a POW. It's a crutch and a flimsy excuse to not give a straight answer.

jag

 

[SuBe]

McCain shouldn't be ashamed for being a POW. However, his campaign shouldn't use his status as a POW as an aside whenever it is asked difficult questions. When his mother was asked about McCain's divorce, she began talking about how he was a POW. On Leno, when McCain was asked to seriously tell everyone how many houses he owned, he started talking about how he was a POW. POW this, POW that. Just because he was tortured for five years, doesn't mean that he's worthy of the presidency. He should give real answers instead of changing the subject to something totally irrelevant to the conversation.

From a bio I saw about him, his experience changed how he felt about his 1st wife. I don't know what happened, but one could assume that after being away from his 1st wife for so long, living another life without her, he fell out of love with her. Is that really damning?

 

[SuBe]

I don't think anyone is saying that. I think people are tired of hearing him NOT answer questions by referencing the always unrelated POW facets of his personal history and acting as if he shouldn't have to answer such questions just because he was a POW. It's a crutch and a flimsy excuse to not give a straight answer.

jag

I just saw DF say something about McCain's Pride in being a POW, and Shame is the opposite of that. I was just asking the question.

 

[The Senator]

From a bio I saw about him, his experience changed how he felt about his 1st wife. I don't know what happened, but one could assume that after being away from his 1st wife for so long, living another life without her, he fell out of love with her. Is that really damning?

I've also read that the reason why he left her was because she was "too crippled" for him. This comes from H. Ross Perot, who was a former family friend of the McCains. Additionally, it wouldn't be that big of a deal for me if he didn't have a relationship with his current wife while he was still legally married to his first wife. This whole situation makes me question his integrity.

 

[jaguarr]

I just saw DF say something about McCain's Pride in being a POW, and Shame is the opposite of that. I was just asking the question.

The word "pride" was hardly the crux of the point that the commentators in the video made that DF was repeating, though.

jag

 

[SuBe]

The word "pride" was hardly the crux of the point that the commentators in the video made that DF was repeating, though.

jag

meh, sake of argument and such.

 

[Matt]

McCain shouldn't be ashamed for being a POW. However, his campaign shouldn't use his status as a POW as an aside whenever it is asked difficult questions. When his mother was asked about McCain's divorce, she began talking about how he was a POW. On Leno, when McCain was asked to seriously tell everyone how many houses he owned, he started talking about how he was a POW. POW this, POW that. Just because he was tortured for five years, doesn't mean that he's worthy of the presidency. He should give real answers instead of changing the subject to something totally irrelevant to the conversation.

It really is a stupid mistake for a campaign to be making. Especially after John Kerry's fiasco of a candidacy where the purple hearts were the crux of his campaign. Being a POW should not be a central campaign theme. Not in the least. Its funny, because the only reason it hasn't entirely blown up in his face is because the Obama campaign is just as weak. This whole "Change (but not saying, what exactly the change is or how it will be accomplished)," theme is the pillar of his campaign much as McCain uses the POW...so they can't really call him on it.

 

[Matt]

I've also read that the reason why he left her was because she was "too crippled" for him. This comes from H. Ross Perot, who was a former family friend of the McCains. Additionally, it wouldn't be that big of a deal for me if he didn't have a relationship with his current wife while he was still legally married to his first wife. This whole situation makes me question his integrity.

Define legally married though. If they'd been seperated for a certain ammount of time, the marriage was over, and they were simply in the sometimes lengthy process of divorce, why not have a girlfriend?

 

[The Senator]

Define legally married though. If they'd been seperated for a certain ammount of time, the marriage was over, and they were simply in the sometimes lengthy process of divorce, why not have a girlfriend?

Because the marriage was not officially over at the time?

A marriage is not over until the divorce has been finalized.

 

[StorminNorman]

I've also read that the reason why he left her was because she was "too crippled" for him. This comes from H. Ross Perot, who was a former family friend of the McCains. Additionally, it wouldn't be that big of a deal for me if he didn't have a relationship with his current wife while he was still legally married to his first wife. This whole situation makes me question his integrity.

Perot was writing an attack piece on McCain - so I am not going to take his account as gospel.

What sort of significance does "legally married" mean. If you can love someone without being "legally married", then you can certainly be out of love when you are "legally married" and if you are not in love with a woman, it is no surprise if you fall in love with another.

 

[DorkyFresh]

Should he be ashamed of being a POW?

honestly, if i got shot down and taken into captivity, i'd be pretty hard on myself...but that's just me, myself. i know there are plenty of honorable and noble men and women that are POW's and former POW's but i don't think they should be particularly proud of themselves as POW's but as men and women brave enough to join the military and fight for this country.

honestly, i don't think McCain should be ASHAMED, but again...i think he just takes TOO MUCH pride and honor in being a former POW.

I don't think anyone is saying that. I think people are tired of hearing him NOT answer questions by referencing the always unrelated POW facets of his personal history and acting as if he shouldn't have to answer such questions just because he was a POW. It's a crutch and a flimsy excuse to not give a straight answer.

jag

 

[Matt]

Because the marriage was not officially over at the time?

A marriage is not over until the divorce has been finalized.

From a legal stand point, yes. But anyone who has been in a relationship of any kind knows it can be over long before its official. If McCain dated during a seperation period with a divorce pending, I see no reason to hold that against him or claim it says anything about his integrity.

 

[DorkyFresh]

honestly...if i came back, from being tortured for 5 years, to a crippled wife that no longer looked like a model and i saw a hot, young, rich women who would marry me i would've jumped on that also. so i really can't blame McCain for jumping from a worn out train to a nicer, cozier one. it's not the exactly the most honorable way to go, but it's perfectly understandable.

 

[Matt]

I'm not even sure that I buy the whole "dumped his wife cause she was crippled," thing. I mean, five years is a long time to be away from a person. People change in five years, a lot. Maybe they just weren't inlove anymore?

 

[DorkyFresh]

Matt, you bring up a great point that 5 years is a long time to be away from someone and i'm sure that had a lot to do with it. i, personally, don't think that his 1st wife being crippled is the sole reason for their failed marriage...but i don't think anyone can deny that it most likely effected their relationship.

 

[Matt]

Without a doubt. Just as say...erectile dysfunction would undoubtedly effect a marriage. Inability to perform (which I am sure she suffered, with being crippled and everything), lack of sexual attraction, lack of intimacy are all very valid reasons to end a marriage and I really do not think we are in a position to judge it.

 

[DorkyFresh]

which is why i said this...

honestly...if i came back, from being tortured for 5 years, to a crippled wife that no longer looked like a model and i saw a hot, young, rich women who would marry me i would've jumped on that also. so i really can't blame McCain for jumping from a worn out train to a nicer, cozier one. it's not the exactly the most honorable way to go, but it's perfectly understandable.

 

[DorkyFresh]

gah! double post.

 

[Matt]

I wasn't referring to you, just the general attitude. Any time anyone wants to throw something in McCain's face, it comes back to leaving the crippled wife. Hell, I'd argue leaving her if they were no longer in love is far more honorable than what Bill Clinton and countless other politicians did and do (remaining in a loveless marriage for political gain). At least McCain manned up and said "Its over."

 

[jaguarr]

So, if you've been in the Obama 2 thread at all, you know that a certain poster (who shall remain nameless ) has a bit of a mad-on for Obama's relationship with William Ayers. "They" question Obama's judgment of having a friendship with an unrepentant terrorist.

To be quite honest, I feel exactly the same way about McCain's relationship with George W. Bush, Dick Cheney and Karl Rove among others. If I compare the body counts of dead civilians who perished from Ayers actions with those of dead civilians who perished because of Bush, Cheney and Rove's actions, well....frankly, I'm a hell of a lot more concerned about the latter to be quite honest. Barack has denounced Ayers' past terrorist actions and words. I haven't heard McCain denouncing his terrorist friends one iota, so who's the less repentant of the two?

Now, the argument can be made that it shows bad judgment to associate with and be friends with someone with a terrorist history in the first place. If we're going to apply that logic, then when I look at these two instances with both candidates, I have to say that the position Obama is in is better than not only being friends with someone who instigated and engaged in what amounts to a huge amount of terrorism on a large scale and perpetuates it, but even going so far as saying that you want to pick up where your friend left off and keep it going and maybe even expand it out to some new places while you're at it.

If we're worried about these candidates being friends with known terrorists, McCain's far and away the more deplorable of the two, IMHO.

jag