The New Ghostbusters - Part 6

[RockSP]

Have you ever watched her doing stand up? Leslie Jones don't mess around.

Yes I've seen her do stand up, though not recently. I remember a routine she had about the different roles a group of girls have when they go out to party that was funny. But what does seeing her stand up have to do with anything?

She is no one's puppet either.

She has a sizeable role in a big budget movie for the first time ever. A potential franchise, at that. I stand by my previous post.

 

[Travesty]

Yeah but those critiques never went past the typical nerd article WTF. We get those when Superman lost his trunks.
.

That's different, though. Aesthetic changes is different from re-writing story elements to try and "update" the franchise, when it never needed to be updated to begin with. Making the turtles aliens was just a dumb move, same with making Shredder a white guy. That affects the entire story, whereas Superman's trunks just affects the appearance.

And I kinda disagree about how the TMNT critique didn't go that far. It got so bad, that they changed it back for the movie. And it's probably a good thing they did, too.

 

[JMLZ]

I think the YT dislikes are a combo of the MRA agenda AND fans who genuinely think it looks bad. But there's no doubt in my mind that the agenda is notably inflating those numbers.

I posted this on the IMDB board, but it's pertinent to the subject matter here as well.

There was plenty for people to hate about this film even before the cast was announced.

To start, for years hardcore fans have been calling for a proper sequel to the original two films. Even with new actors, people wanted to see the original characters return to the screen. This reboot slams home the reality that it's never going to happen. The fact that the genders are swapped salts the wound.

On the topic, audiences have gotten wise to the tendency of Hollywood to jam political agendas into films and television, often sacrificing entertainment value in the process. In fact, that's exactly what lowered the quality of The Real Ghostbusters cartoon after its second season. Too often films get preachy about 'girl power' and other such nonsense. If these girls are so awesome then don't say it; just show it. Respect the intelligence of the audience by depicting it realistically, and let the audience members decide for themselves if they're worthy of praise. Unfortunately, people have been conditioned by previous efforts into feeling like they know what's coming; more of the same.

The tone of the trailer didn't help. The majority of the jokes shown fell flat, and they used too much expository dialogue. They should have gone for a moodier vibe, more in keeping with the tone of the trailer for Crimson Peak or some other horror film, and inserted moments of levity here and there. It certainly would have helped people to take it more seriously. Instead, they went for a trailer that looks like any other comedy trailer I've seen and feel like I know I'm going to end up hating (like The Watch or Pixels).

 

[jmc]

Nah. I think we crossed the proverbial Rubicon with geek properties when SW7 became real and they successfully recast the original Trek crew. Those two things were considered done and done. Like bringing back Uncle Ben.

Anyone who thinks Indiana Jones wasn't close to being recast without Ford is crazy.

The point is if nothing new is being created then all we are going to get are the same things over and over again. John Wick is the perfect example of a film that captured a lot of attention and has subsequently been given a follow up film. Developing new properties can be done, it just requires more effort. The problem is studios aren't putting in the effort to properly market new ideas, hence the use of pre existing properties. But as Deadpool showed you don't have to spend $200m on a film to win people over, all you need is the desire and the right marketing campaign.

 

[JangoNate]

This will make some of us mad and some nod heads in agreement. I think this is a great article speaking to the topic at hand:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/if-not-ghostbusters-when-is-it-okay-to-remake-movies

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I think even keeping Back to the Future with the same genders would cause the same outcry. Sometimes studios should just let certain things go, I know it requires more work to develop original properties, but the kids of this generation need their own original franchises to grow up with. The 80's and early 90's was full of wild ideas and concepts that young people fell in love with, we need to bring back new ideas instead of making everything this hollow corporate package trying to appeal to the kids of the 80's and 90's. We don't need a new Ghostbusters, we need ideas like Ghostbusters.

Well said.

 

[TheVileOne]

This will make some of us mad and some nod heads in agreement. I think this is a great article speaking to the topic at hand:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/if-not-ghostbusters-when-is-it-okay-to-remake-movies

There's a lot I don't agree with in that article too.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

That's different, though. Aesthetic changes is different from re-writing story elements to try and "update" the franchise, when it never needed to be updated to begin with. Making the turtles aliens was just a dumb move, same with making Shredder a white guy. That affects the entire story, whereas Superman's trunks just affects the appearance.

That example is more to show that nerd fans will complain about everything. People who were in favor of losing the trunks were accused of not being real fans.

Everything to hardcore fans is a huge canon change worth screaming about.

Sandman being Uncle Ben's killer?!! Heresy

But it never goes past the geek insults like "you don't care about the character, or not having Robin is betraying the spirit of the comics!!!"

Call someone racist or a misogynist is insulting about the person in the real world.

And I kinda disagree about how the TMNT critique didn't go that far. It got so bad, that they changed it back for the movie. And it's probably a good thing they did, too.

Again, it didn't go far beyond the nerd sphere.

Also, it's my point about the rules, they weren't attempting to reinvent the Turtles enough to alienate the core fanbase so they caved.

FF and Ghostbusters both come at this with the idea of going about the core fanbase thinking they have enough clout to get the GA on their side.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

The point is if nothing new is being created then all we are going to get are the same things over and over again. John Wick is the perfect example of a film that captured a lot of attention and has subsequently been given a follow up film. Developing new properties can be done, it just requires more effort. The problem is studios aren't putting in the effort to properly market new ideas, hence the use of pre existing properties. But as Deadpool showed you don't have to spend $200m on a film to win people over, all you need is the desire and the right marketing campaign.

Developing new properties isn't the problem. Neither is the budget insight.

Remember when District9 came out? Harold and Kumar made money with minority leads and Blade made money as a comic hero with a black lead and a R rating.

The problem is that at some point in the late 90s, franchises like JW came to mean a guaranteed amount of money. Kind of like the same way Cruise, Smith, and Stallone were guaranteed money until they weren't and Hollywood never took their foot off the peddle. So now we have a Will Smithless Independence Day or a unRocky Rocky quasi-sequel in Creed.

 

[JangoNate]

My opinion about FF is that it wasn't just fan outrage that kept it from doing well. FF just isn't that popular. No on really cared and negative reviews was the last straw. People care about GB and are very passionate, either in support or against. If tge reviews look decent, it will do well. If one things for sure, a lot of folks know it's coming.

 

[TheCommissioner]

I posted this on the IMDB board, but it's pertinent to the subject matter here as well.

There was plenty for people to hate about this film even before the cast was announced.

To start, for years hardcore fans have been calling for a proper sequel to the original two films. Even with new actors, people wanted to see the original characters return to the screen. This reboot slams home the reality that it's never going to happen. The fact that the genders are swapped salts the wound.

how does it "salt the wound"? because the idea of female scientists developing ghost catching equipment is sooooo offensive?

On the topic, audiences have gotten wise to the tendency of Hollywood to jam political agendas into films and television, often sacrificing entertainment value in the process. In fact, that's exactly what lowered the quality of The Real Ghostbusters cartoon after its second season. Too often films get preachy about 'girl power' and other such nonsense. If these girls are so awesome then don't say it; just show it. Respect the intelligence of the audience by depicting it realistically, and let the audience members decide for themselves if they're worthy of praise. Unfortunately, people have been conditioned by previous efforts into feeling like they know what's coming; more of the same.

if by jamming political agendas, you mean trying to reflect the current world we live in, then sure

 

[TheComicbookKid]

My opinion about FF is that it wasn't just fan outrage that kept it from doing well. FF just isn't that popular. No on really cared and negative reviews was the last straw. People care about GB and are very passionate, either in support or against. If tge reviews look decent, it will do well. If one things for sure, a lot of folks know it's coming.

That's also why I think they miscalculated. Core fanbases keep things relevant.

That's why I think Hollywood is going to be in trouble when adapting these late 80s/90s properties. They aren't popular the way say Gone With the Wind or Indiana Jones are but their have passionate fanbases in the age of Twitter/Facebook will attempt to drive a narrative negatively towards a property.

Who the heck thought Jem and the Holograms was something that would have people bashing it as sexist in comparison to its Hasbro brethren's budgets?

Ghostbusters and BTTF are the holy grails of late 80s geek properties. So the attention will be amplified from something like Bill and Ted.

 

[Zarex]

As others have stated, a direct Ghostbusters sequel featuring this same cast would have made much more sense than what looks like a remake of a comedy sci-fi classic . I just saw the original last week and it has held up exceptionally well. By positioning this as a replacement it was bound to get unnecessary criticism.

Feig (Who I love. Freaks and Geeks!) wanted this movie in a ghost-free reality and have the ladies develop their own equipment. But a reboot was unnecessary. Spirits may have been in hiding over the three subsequent decades. And the ladies could have dismissed the Original Quartet technology as dangerous, outdated garbage. D**kless was right all along!

A sequel with Akroyd and Ghost Murray in supporting roles could have gotten a lot of the nostalgia appeal that drove JP and TFA. It would have been seen as the continuation of a classic rather than just another remake. That decision may turn out to be a fatal error.

 

[TheCommissioner]

so they need "permission" from the all male previous cast?

because that's what I hear every time I read that reasoning

 

[TheComicbookKid]

As others have stated, a direct Ghostbusters sequel featuring this same cast would have made much more sense than what looks like a remake of a comedy sci-fi classic . I just saw the original last week and it has held up exceptionally well. By positioning this as a replacement it was bound to get unnecessary criticism.

Feig (Who I love. Freaks and Geeks!) wanted this movie in a ghost-free reality and have the ladies develop their own equipment. But a reboot was unnecessary. Spirits may have been in hiding over the three subsequent decades. And the ladies could have dismissed the Original Quartet technology as dangerous, outdated garbage. D**kless was right all along!

A sequel with Akroyd and Ghost Murray in supporting roles could have gotten a lot of the nostalgia appeal that drove JP and TFA. It would have been seen as the continuation of a classic rather than just another remake. That decision may turn out to be a fatal error.

That's kind of why I hate to see this attempt fail. I understand why Feig did what he did. Whether or not an all-female team is a good idea is up for debate, but not having all the original crew hurt my enthusiasm for a sequel.

Kind of like how I didn't want to see Indiana Jones get old.

Cause what you describe doesn't make sense to me. All or nothing. Ghostbusters never had a long run like Trek or Star Wars. If you try to continue in that world you would have to spend half the movie explaining what the heck happened in the 30 years since and what happened to the Ghostbusters.

ROTJ ended the story. Star Trek continued and the OT crew retired. You can jump in with a new TFA crew peel back the story and you only need old Spock to set off the alternate universe for NuSpock.

 

[JangoNate]

That's kind of why I hate to see this attempt fail. I understand why Feig did what he did. Whether or not an all-female team is a good idea is up for debate, but not having all the original crew hurt my enthusiasm for a sequel.

Kind of like how I didn't want to see Indiana Jones get old.

Cause what you describe doesn't make sense to me. All or nothing. Ghostbusters never had a long run like Trek or Star Wars. If you try to continue in that world you would have to spend half the movie explaining what the heck happened in the 30 years since and what happened to the Ghostbusters.

ROTJ ended the story. Star Trek continued and the OT crew retired. You can jump in with a new TFA crew peel back the story and you only need old Spock to set off the alternate universe for NuSpock.

Yes to this. You would still need an origin story PLUS catching everyone up on the old crew.

 

[Zarex]

so they need "permission" from the all male previous cast?

because that's what I hear every time I read that reasoning

Where exactly are you getting "needs permission" from? A sequel doesn't necessitate original cast members telling the gals what to do. Presenting them as dangerous lunatics whose actions 30 years ago led to the present day catastrophe would be much more fun.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Where exactly are you getting "needs permission" from? A sequel doesn't necessitate original cast members telling the gals what to do. Presenting them as dangerous lunatics whose actions 30 years ago led to the present day catastrophe would be much more fun.

in your opinion

 

[4thWallBreaker]

I find it sucky that the old cast is cameoing, but didn't make a third film. Shucks.

I wonder if Ron Jeremy will make a cameo, like he did the first one.

 

[Zarex]

That's kind of why I hate to see this attempt fail. I understand why Feig did what he did. Whether or not an all-female team is a good idea is up for debate, but not having all the original crew hurt my enthusiasm for a sequel.

Kind of like how I didn't want to see Indiana Jones get old.

Cause what you describe doesn't make sense to me. All or nothing. Ghostbusters never had a long run like Trek or Star Wars. If you try to continue in that world you would have to spend half the movie explaining what the heck happened in the 30 years since and what happened to the Ghostbusters.

ROTJ ended the story. Star Trek continued and the OT crew retired. You can jump in with a new TFA crew peel back the story and you only need old Spock to set off the alternate universe for NuSpock.

Imagine a scenario in which TFA, which got a decent amount of criticism for being a retelling of ANH, was in fact a remake taking place in a universe without Darth Vader, Luke, Han and Leia. I doubt it would have cracked $1B at the BO, let alone $2B. People always want to find out what happened next.

And you don't have to do a deep dive into what happened to the gang during the past 30 years. You need to save something for the sequel.

 

[Zarex]

in your opinion

In the future, please feel free to attach "In my opinion" to every future post that I make. I don't want there to be any confusion as to who I am representing.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Imagine a scenario in which TFA, which got a decent amount of criticism for being a retelling of ANH, was in fact a remake taking place in a universe without Darth Vader, Luke, Han and Leia. I doubt it would have cracked $1B at the BO, let alone $2B. People always want to find out what happened next.

I can agree with that and still disagree. No two snowflakes are alike.

3 successful Star Wars(3 eh prequels) movies with countless toys, animated series, video games, and parodies across 30 years isn't in the same league with one popular GB movie and a not highly regarded sequel and an early 90s animated series.

Lucas made sure Star Wars was engrained in the populace even if they hadn't seen the original movies when it came out.

And you don't have to do a deep dive into what happened to the gang during the past 30 years. You need to save something for the sequel.

One of your Ghostbusters is dead and the other doesn't even want to be in it.

The only person who didn't come back for TFA willingly was Lando.lol.

The point is to pass the torch to a new crew, not make Ghostbusters 3. I understand these are franchise but you don't want to spend two movies explaining the past 30 years.

 

[JangoNate]

I find it sucky that the old cast is cameoing, but didn't make a third film. Shucks.

I wonder if Ron Jeremy will make a cameo, like he did the first one.

I don't know. Every cameo he makes is too long.

 

[Sithborg]

I don't think Akroyd was going to come back unless he wrote the script. And clearly, whatever Akroyd was making wasn't appealing to Murray. And with Ramis gone, he couldn't help on the script either.

And I think there has been plenty of evidence that sequels to comedies that are so far removed by time, just do not work at the box office. So, as much as it may pain the hardcore, a complete reboot makes the most sense.

 

[TheCommissioner]

Honestly, and its the little things that hook me

I hope the sound of the proton packs is what it should be

I need the hum of it turning on and that wooooshish sound when the beam goes