The New Ghostbusters - Part 9

[Nathan]

This!

There are many franchise with female leads, the alien franchise is always the first that comes to mind for me, but its all gender politics for ghostbusters.

The two women my mind always immediately jumps to, when I think of strong female leads.

But no, Ghostbusters is the one Movie that holds the fate of future leading women in its hands. Give me a break.

 

[GuestStar2004]

His choice shows how he is reacting to a female lead Ghostbusters film.

Ok so if they were all guys and he said he wasn't seeing it then it wouldn't be bad but because they were all women and he said he wasn't seeing it then its bad?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And I'm not saying that they weren't. But misogynistic men is the only thing everyone focused on. What about all the female geek youtubers, who spoke out against the idea of rebooting Ghostbusters? And thought a mixed team would have been a better way to go, instead of making them all female? Oh, wait, apparently they don't exist.

This is a strawman.

1. Female youtubers are not who we are talking about. If they have a problem, they have a problem. But I doubt it involved explain why being a woman makes one incapable of being a Ghostbuster.

2. Why would a mix be better then an all female team?

3. As one who had problems with them rebooting Ghosbusters, one of my favorite things growing up, I have never felt the need to attack this film as a gimmick because they cast women. McKinnon and Jones don't exactly look funny to me in the trailer, but I haven't needed to dump vitriol on them. When you react impulsively, spew hate in the way many have done her, it makes things apparent.

When grown men react like children, it reveals a lot. I know, I have done it. One can dislike them rebooting Ghostbusters, but that doesn't mean suddenly one isn't sexist in how they have approached this film.

That anyone cries about feminism being brought into this or women seeing this as a sign of progress for them, is showing themselves. As a man, I don't know what it is like. I didn't grow up having to try and find action figures like me. They were there.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Results are impressive so far for a movie that has two bad trailers.

 

[JtheDreamer]

This is the thing I still don't get, surrounding this whole situation. Is it that important? Ever since this Movie was announced, people were acting like Movies never had any strong female leads. Which to be frank, is outright bs. I'm still perplexed by the amount of attention the gender of the cast has gotten. Of course it didn't help when the media decided to run with the whole misogynist shtick.

Big blockbusters are usually not female-led. That's the distinction for this one - which happens to be a remake <--- That's what differs from Alien and Terminator.

 

[Matt]

The two women my mind always immediately jumps to, when I think of strong female leads.

But no, Ghostbusters is the one Movie that holds the fate of future leading women in its hands. Give me a break.

You know, this raises an interesting point: I do wonder what the response would be to an Alien remake that recasts Ripley as a man or a Terminator remake that has Kyle Reese live, Sarah Connor die, and casts Reese as the lead role of T2?

 

[Serpico Jones]

I don't mean to toss this grenade in here but the top critics score for this movie is at 47% on RT

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Some may have been, but the marketing department didn't do this movie any favors with awful trailers. I am shocked it is getting good reviews based on the trailers for the movie that I saw. I couldn't care less that the Ghostbusters are female in this. But easiest way to combat bad press like that is by showing people they were wrong, and having a bad trailer on top of that made the marketing/perception problem worse. Remember, people complained about Ledger as the Joker until we saw footage of him. Good footage shuts people up. I think saying that sexism is the only reason it was being panned by people is an over simplification. Is that in part true? Probably. But I don't think it is the entire reason.

Two things Spider-Fan.

First, the reaction came before anything was shown. It has been bad, and from the start. I have not enjoyed the marketing, have said so many times. But the marketing wasn't what started this. Not at all.

Second, I never said it was the only reason. We have seen reactions like this before, but nothing to this scale. Nothing close. And it started out bad. We still have people calling casting a female crew is a gimmick. In this thread.

 

[Matt]

This is a strawman.

1. Female youtubers are not who we are talking about. If they have a problem, they have a problem. But I doubt it involved explain why being a woman makes one incapable of being a Ghostbuster.

2. Why would a mix be better then an all female team?

3. As one who had problems with them rebooting Ghosbusters, one of my favorite things growing up, I have never felt the need to attack this film as a gimmick because they cast women. McKinnon and Jones don't exactly look funny to me in the trailer, but I haven't needed to dump vitriol on them. When you react impulsively, spew hate in the way many have done her, it makes things apparent.

When grown men react like children, it reveals a lot. I know, I have done it. One can dislike them rebooting Ghostbusters, but that doesn't mean suddenly one isn't sexist in how they have approached this film.

That anyone cries about feminism being brought into this or women seeing this as a sign of progress for them, is showing themselves. As a man, I don't know what it is like. I didn't grow up having to try and find action figures like me. They were there.

And your argument rejects any notion that there could be any cause other than sexism.

 

[GuestStar2004]

You know, this raises an interesting point: I do wonder what the response would be to an Alien remake that recasts Ripley as a man

I actually think many guys would hate it if they made Ripley a man.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The two women my mind always immediately jumps to, when I think of strong female leads.

But no, Ghostbusters is the one Movie that holds the fate of future leading women in its hands. Give me a break.

And Marvel by itself has more male led franchises. Amazing huh?

Ok so if they were all guys and he said he wasn't seeing it then it wouldn't be bad but because they were all women and he said he wasn't seeing it then its bad?

The point is he wouldn't have. His whole gimmick is watching and playing terrible stuff. For Godsake he made a career out of it, but now he needs to make a stand.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

You know, this raises an interesting point: I do wonder what the response would be to an Alien remake that recasts Ripley as a man or a Terminator remake that has Kyle Reese live, Sarah Connor die, and casts Reese as the lead role of T2?

Terminator Genisys kinda did that, there was a T-1000 model ready in 1984 for the arrival of Kyle Reese.
I don't know how everyone reacted to the marketing of that movie, I personally felt both annoyed and interested at the idea of turning John Connor to a Terminator.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And your argument rejects any notion that there could be any cause other than sexism.

Nope. I reject the idea that you can excuse sexism as a key component here. That is what you have a lot here. Dismissing the idea that the female cast has been any part of this and even if it has, it has only been a small component. As even you complain when articles are written antagonizing sexist, not all men.

 

[Matt]

Nope. I reject the idea that you can excuse sexism as a key component here. That is what you have a lot here. Dismissing the idea that the female cast has been any part of this and even if it has, it has only been a small component. As even you complain when articles are written antagonizing sexist, not all men.

You're being completely dismissive. People are showing you reason after reason and your response is "maybe those are the case BUT SEXISM!!!!!!!!!"

 

[JtheDreamer]

You're being completely dismissive. People are showing you reason after reason and your response is "maybe those are the case BUT SEXISM!!!!!!!!!"

 

[Spider-Fan]

Two things Spider-Fan.

First, the reaction came before anything was shown. It has been bad, and from the start. I have not enjoyed the marketing, have said so many times. But the marketing wasn't what started this. Not at all.

Second, I never said it was the only reason. We have seen reactions like this before, but nothing to this scale. Nothing close. And it started out bad. We still have people calling casting a female crew is a gimmick. In this thread.

I know people were reacting poorly before we had footage. But, this is hardly the first time something like that happened. BvS got this same level of hate before we saw a frame of footage, too. Other things have, too. When the product looks bad, it only makes that negative reaction worse. People can be converted if the product looks good. When it doesn't, then people feel like they were right from the start. You cannot fight negative press with more negative press. Look again at Ledger Joker and him not being perma-white. That was a huge discussion when making TDK, but people were swayed. If the movie looked bad, you better believe people would have called Ledger the worst thing to happen to the character. See BvS RT score and Fan4stic.

 

[Nathan]

This is a strawman.

1. Female youtubers are not who we are talking about. If they have a problem, they have a problem. But I doubt it involved explain why being a woman makes one incapable of being a Ghostbuster.

2. Why would a mix be better then an all female team?

3. As one who had problems with them rebooting Ghosbusters, one of my favorite things growing up, I have never felt the need to attack this film as a gimmick because they cast women. McKinnon and Jones don't exactly look funny to me in the trailer, but I haven't needed to dump vitriol on them. When you react impulsively, spew hate in the way many have done her, it makes things apparent.

When grown men react like children, it reveals a lot. I know, I have done it. One can dislike them rebooting Ghostbusters, but that doesn't mean suddenly one isn't sexist in how they have approached this film.

That anyone cries about feminism being brought into this or women seeing this as a sign of progress for them, is showing themselves. As a man, I don't know what it is like. I didn't grow up having to try and find action figures like me. They were there.

No, female youtubers are not who we have talked about. But a male youtuber is who everyone talked about when he spoke out he wouldn't watch the Movie. But that's apparently all youtube and the internet is, a sea of misogynists. Whenever women say something negative, the exact same thing a guy would say, no one bats a ****ing eye. But when a guy says it, instead of ignoring the pathetic little basement dweller he supposedly is, no, let's fan the flames. Let's show the entire world how pathetic this person is.

So again, yes, there are misogynists. But I entirely blame the media and marketing that it even got as big as it did. Because without any of the controversy, the Movie would have barely been talked about, like any of the other reboots no one wanted or cared about.

And with this I don't care to continue this conversation that goes nowhere any further.

 

[Kanon]

I'm a woman, so it's important to me. It's been important to my friends who have daughters. If any of the female bloggers/writers I follow on social media are any indication, it's pretty damn important to them too. We've never had this before.

It's important to me because women should have the chance to be just as funny and to kick just as much ass as a group of 4 guys chasing ghosts in NYC city. Because we can. It's important to me because I want little girls to see that too. Hell, I want my nephews to see that just as much.

It is important, but it shouldn't be on dispute, because it was casted over a year ago. The battle was won then. All this talk gives relevance to those disputing the cast, and ofuscates any other aspect of the movie.

It's important to me because when I posted that Lego set on Twitter, I had to put up with at least three little children who were I angry that I bought a toy. Like I should be ashamed for buying it. Screw those little children.

I'm not going to tell you how to fight your battles on that area, 'cause I can only imagine how it is. If it's anything like things I had problems with, "screw them" is the right answer, and don't give them any more relevance, they don't deserve it and you don't need it. I feel and hope they are in the minority.

If you don't want to see it, that's FINE. I don't care. But I'm rooting for it. I'm hoping it's good (maybe it won't be, who knows?)...but I'm tired of having to justify it, or be told I shouldn't think having this cast is important. To me, it is.

I think you are confused about what I want to see or not. I don't want to see the movie for other reasons that I have posted many times (mostly that is a reboot instead of sequel). About the cast, I have no problem or praise to say (although I love Wiig), and I'm perfectly ok with female lead movies (just as much as men, I don't mind). It's the subject here that I'm tired and I don't think is doing anyone any favors. But again, it was just advice.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You're being completely dismissive. People are showing you reason after reason and your response is "maybe those are the case BUT SEXISM!!!!!!!!!"

What reasons am I dismissing without thought?

Bad trailers: I agree. I have said countless times they are doing a good job at making those who want to give it a chance, not want to see it. But that doesn't change that the reaction started before the trailers. People were ready to hate this. More then one person has dismissed the reviews here out of hand.

Bad cast: Subjective of course, but it also reads like plenty of people aren't familiar with the work of these actresses.

Remaking a classic: Not the first time this has happened. Never seen a reaction like this. More importantly you have acknowledged that the reaction to such a situation shouldn't be spending months throwing a temper tantrum over it.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

This event reminds me of Resident Evil games, Chris Redfield is the more important character in the mythos, but Jill Valentine has apparently better reception as a character, same goes for Chris's sister; Claire.

 

[Zero_Effect]

So again, yes, there are misogynists. But I entirely blame the media and marketing that it even got as big as it did. Because without any of the controversy, the Movie would have barely been talked about, like any of the other reboots no one wanted or cared about.

I would agree with this.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I know people were reacting poorly before we had footage. But, this is hardly the first time something like that happened. BvS got this same level of hate before we saw a frame of footage, too. Other things have, too. When the product looks bad, it only makes that negative reaction worse. People can be converted if the product looks good. When it doesn't, then people feel like they were right from the start. You cannot fight negative press with more negative press. Look again at Ledger Joker and him not being perma-white. That was a huge discussion when making TDK, but people were swayed. If the movie looked bad, you better believe people would have called Ledger the worst thing to happen to the character. See BvS RT score and Fan4stic.

No it didn't Spider-Fan. BvS did not get this reaction, even if it was simply down to the amount of DC fans there. When they busted out TDKR quote and the TDKR Batman symbol, people lost their minds in a good way. And even bad reactions could be traced back to obvious sources. Fans of a "competing" studio, dislike for MoS, etc.

Something like the Joker not being perma-white is a fanbase thing. The vast majority of people do not care or even know it is a thing. In my entire family, only my brother and I know it is a thing, and we have a lot of family. Casting women in the leads here is something that touches on a hot button topic in the US. A country that has one person standing between Donald Trump and the White House.

Ghostbusters is already reviewing far better then BvS or FF. It could fall off a cliff and still have a better RT score then the either of those easily. The BvS "hate" came with the reviews and then people actually seeing the movie.

 

[Supernova]

I'm a woman, so it's important to me. It's been important to my friends who have daughters. If any of the female bloggers/writers I follow on social media are any indication, it's pretty damn important to them too. We've never had this before.

I bought that Lego car last week because it was one of the first time I remember ever seeing a Lego set with so many female characters included in a single set that wasn't pink and princess-y. I would need to buy 4 different Lego sets if I wanted to get all of the female Force Awakens figures. But here it was, all in one pretty cool-looking set.

It's important to me because women should have the chance to be just as funny and to kick just as much ass as a group of 4 guys chasing ghosts in NYC city. Because we can. It's important to me because I want little girls to see that too. Hell, I want my nephews to see that just as much.

It's important to me, because I'm tired of having the original movie "explained" to me by guys who weren't even born yet when I saw the original movie every time I say I want to see it...because apparently I "can't" understand why it's some kind of crime against humanity. What do us girls understand about movies anyway??

It's important to me because when I posted that Lego set on Twitter, I had to put up with at least three little children who were I angry that I bought a toy. Like I should be ashamed for buying it. Screw those little children.

If you don't want to see it, that's FINE. I don't care. But I'm rooting for it. I'm hoping it's good (maybe it won't be, who knows?)...but I'm tired of having to justify it, or be told I shouldn't think having this cast is important. To me, it is.

Call me stubborn but I would much rather have an interesting story and characters who entertain me for 2 hours. I dont want a 2 hour commercial for pc progressive stuff just because they have to have it. If im paying $12 a ticket I want the story to be good. Good example is mad max fury road and bad example is this.

 

[danoyse]

The two women my mind always immediately jumps to, when I think of strong female leads.

But no, Ghostbusters is the one Movie that holds the fate of future leading women in its hands. Give me a break.

Yeah, we had two more than 20 years ago. Why don't we shut up already?

 

[danoyse]

Call me stubborn but I would much rather have an interesting story and characters who entertain me for 2 hours. I dont want a 2 hour commercial for pc progressive stuff just because they have to have it. If im paying $12 a ticket I want the story to be good. Good example is mad max fury road and bad example is this.

And those happen in movies with women too, you know. We're not a gimmick, you know.