The Not New Comics Thread!

[TheCorpulent1]

Saw the first trade of Mark Waid and Barry Kitson's Legion of Super Heroes while I was browsing at the library and checked it out. This is easily my favorite take on the Legion by far. There are some specific character choices I might've made differently, since I like a few of the characters more from other versions of the Legion, but the basic premise of this reboot is utterly fantastic. The seeds of it were always there, but Waid was the one who actually took the final step of evolving the superhero antics of older Legions into a youth movement against the stagnation of their future. The political undertones make all the difference in the world.

Instead of young adventurers inspired by Superman, the Legion is transformed into a group of kids who were so bored and unsatisfied by the beaurocracy of their elders' government bodies that they looked to the past and used Superman's heroic example as inspiration to rise up and take action. Rather than modernizing their names as other reboots have done, Waid embraces the cheesiness of the original names as throwbacks--a bit of kitsch to signify the Legion's retro ideals. Gone are the days of Cosmic Boy as the happy-go-lucky leader of the Legion, replaced by a Cos who's the weary, put-upon chief organizer and public face of the Legion movement; Lightning Lad is still hotheaded, but the political scenario recasts his short temper as a serious liability to the Legion's message; Brainiac 5 is not just snarky, but at first appears to be a legitimate threat to Cos' leadership, spouting so many opinions counter to Cos' that you almost wonder why he doesn't splinter his own group off of the Legion.

Kitson's art is a bit plain for my tastes, but he tells the story clearly and well. Basically, if you like a bit of politics in your fiction, you should definitely check this trade out. Doesn't matter if you've never been a fan of the Legion before--I barely was, and mostly for characters like XS, who don't even exist in this incarnation of the Legion. The comic fell fast after Waid left, but these first two trades by Waid and Kitson are definitely worth your time.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I know I read maybe the first 3 or 4 issues and thought it was really good, but then stopped for whatever reason. How many issues did that series run?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

A lot. It ran for like 4 years, but like I said, the Waid/Kitson issues are the only ones worth reading. Tony Bedard took over afterward and, while his run wasn't bad, it just didn't work for me. I don't think he struck the right balance between superheroics and politics. And then Jim Shooter came along and I believe he pretty much wrote the Legion like he did back in the '60s, primarily as superheroes.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I got into the Waid/Kitson run of Legion when Supergirl joined the team for a short while. It made me pick up the entire series. Legion is just one of those titles I've always liked, but haven't always followed. The first time I remember being blown away with the comic was back in the 80's, with The Great Darkness Saga. I really have to re-read that again, as I wonder how it holds up over time.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Fantastic Four #48-50

So many historic moments before this between issue #1 and #48. The first five alone have the first Skrulls, the return of Namor, and Doctor Doom. Still, looking at the first twenty issues, you kind of get a lot of repetition. Namor and Doom show up quite frequently. And, many times we get the F4 fighting monsters. (Even Doom and Namor use monsters to attack Reed and company.)

What surprises me is how well the Galactus storyline holds up. Stan Lee's storytelling really improved a great deal, and Kirby's art did the same. (I love going to comic cons and hearing the artists look at some of their first work that I bring them to sign, and they are completely embarrassed by it. It's always my goal to have signatures from the earliest work i have and the latest.) Compare the main characters to that first issue, and they all look so much better. Thing is in his natural rocky form and Reed is looking much, much younger. (And, gone is the pipe!)

Stan Lee also has developed a real good method of writing this comic, in that the end of every issue is pretty much a "to be continued" moment, where the reader is left with at least one cliffhanger. The actual conclusion to the Galactus saga happens mid-issue of issue #50; but, the story goes on to witness Johnny attending college for the first time (plus, first appearance by Wyatt Wingfoot) and the Thing feeling extremely depressed (which goes straight into the next, legendary issue, "This Man ... This Monster"). Now I know why I always felt like I was missing something when I didn't have the next issue to read.

This story really reflects how mature this comic became. With the Silver Surfer, Galactus, and The Watcher, Stan Lee and Jack Kirby were going into more profound stories. I've probably read it a good ten times, mostly from when I was a kid. I see some things now that I completely didn't notice before, like how Alicia's blindness is comparable to the Silver Surfers. (Yeah, it's very blatant; but, not something I really noticed as a child.) Also, the idea that we're all just specks in the universe is brought up a few times; but, most strikingly when Johnny returns from Galactus' ship and through the far reaches of space.

One difference that I feel as an adult compared to when I was a kid is my enjoyment of this story. As a child, I think I was a bit let down by it all. There isn't any real big battles, and the conclusion was more of Galactus saying, "ok, we've reached a stalemate" when the Ultimate Nulifier was threatened to be used against him. Plus, Silver Surfer looks neat on the pages; but, he's a bit of a bore when you're a kid. He does a lot of talking, after all. (Yet, in truth, he's the star of this story.)

 

[TheCorpulent1]

This library thing is working out well. Who knew public libraries had so many good trades?

Locke & Key: Head Games was great. It took me a while to get back into the story because I read the first hardcover a while ago, but once I did I enjoyed it as much as I did the first story. Hill and Rodriguez create a very effective creepy atmosphere. You know terrible things will happen and I, at least, got a good sense of dread going. The story is a slow-burn mystery to some extent--sort of like a better-paced Lost in that you get a few answers here and there but the big questions still loom large. How is Lucas/Zack back after decades without having aged at all? What's with the adult/child divide that allows the latter to see the keys' effects but not the former? What exactly happened in the caves under that cliff that Keyhouse sits atop? What is it about the Lockes' family history that seemingly binds them to these keys? I have no idea, but the road to learning those answers has been pretty fun so far. I look forward to the third hardcover's release so I can continue down it.

I picked up the trade for New Avengers: The Reunion because I decided I would buy the Heroic Age Hawkeye & Mockingbird mini-series coming out pretty soon, and I figured given that it has the same creative team as The Reunion, it would probably behoove me to read that story first. The Reunion was mostly good. The short story that acted as a lead-in was decent but, coupled with the first issue of the mini itself, made Mockingbird come off a little too harsh and angsty. She has good reason to be, but she was venturing into unlikable territory. Thankfully, the middle issues of the mini really hit their stride with the banter between Mockingbird and Hawkeye (I don't care if he's called Ronin at that point; McCann has him pick up a bow and arrow almost immediately and dresses him in blue and purple for half the series, so he's Hawkeye in my book), and I could definitely pick up on the underlying chemistry between them, despite Bobbi's resistance to rekindle their romance.

More than anything else, I found that The Reunion was a series of really great moments. They're wrapped in a pretty solid plot, don't get me wrong; but it's the moments themselves that really shine. Of particular note: The way McCann uses the ever-present question of whether heroes should kill or not. Back in the day, Mockingbird was drugged and probably raped by the Phantom Rider and eventually lets him die when she returns to her senses. Clint didn't stand by her--instead he focused on vehemently disapproving of her seemingly amoral actions. The Reunion revisits that in dialogue and, now that Clint himself has gone on a murderous rampage against the Skrulls during Secret Invasion, has Clint apologize and say that he finally understands what she did. I thought that was a great use of two pretty terrible situations that McCann was saddled with in Hawkeye and Mockingbird's shared history. Anyone who's seen me post on this board knows that I am no fan of seeing heroes kill unless it has some very specific and meaningful context. Mockingbird's instance did at the time; Hawkeye's in Secret Invasion absolutely did not. Regardless of those instances themselves, though, I love that McCann used them to actually build the characters. What was once a meaningless declaration of genocide against the Skrulls used by Bendis as a cheap shock ending for an issue of Secret Invasion becomes a meaningful moment in Clint's backstory that informs who the character is now. The result is a Mockingbird who, after her ordeal with the Phantom Rider, her training as a spy for SHIELD, and her other ordeal with the Skrulls, is completely comfortable using lethal force, paired with a Hawkeye who understands her better but still tries to nudge her toward a better nature--at one point, she pulls out a pair of handguns, Clint comments on them, and she grudgingly promises to aim only to injure.

Another great moment was the revelation that the Bobbi who reconciled with Clint after their divorce scare back in Avengers West Coast was actually the Skrull impersonator. Up to that point, it seemed like Clint was doggedly pursuing Bobbi and trying to force everything back to normal while Bobbi was just being stubbornly resistant to him for no apparent reason. When Bobbi drops the bomb that her last memory on Earth was heading to LA to tell Clint that she'd actually filed divorce papers, I felt like it placed Bobbi and Clint on more even footing. Clint seemed like less of a desperate puppy-dog when he finally understood the real nature of their renewed relationship.

David Lopez's art was really good. It has some very dynamic moments but it's not too flashy overall. I really love his redesign of Bobbi's costume, although I could do without that wonky, big-sleeved overcoat.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I'm currently reading the next F4 story that I found as recommended reading, which starts with issue #57. It's when Dr. Doom steals the cosmic powers of the Silver Surfer. The premise is really cool, and you can believe the Silver Surfer's gullibility; but, I'm having a very hard time with the overt sexism in the comic. Everyone treats the Invisible Woman like a child who must constantly be protected from the truth. Her powers are dismissed in such a way, that Reed is constantly telling her to run away while he uses his own powers to protect her. One moment in the second issue of the storyline, a freak storm happens, with a vision of Dr. Doom in the center. Reed thinks to himself, "There's more to this than a casual phenomenon of nature -- But I mustn't let Sue become alarmed!" A couple panels later, even Ben thinks to himself, "(Reed) knows blamed well what the score is -- But he don't want to upset Susie! I should have figured that!"

There is so much about this story that is great storytelling, like all the different storylines that Stan and Jack had been building up month after month. Yet, due to the time this comic was published, such dismissive ways toward women make it extremely difficult to enjoy today. Sue is probably the most powerful of all the F4; yet, she's treated as if she just turns invisible and can use her force field to defend herself and not use it as a deadly weapon against all the evil forces. (In fact, it's usually Reed telling her how to use her powers, and she seems to lack any kind of smarts or initiative.)

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Just finished reading the Atomic Robo vol. 1 trade at lunch today. I love this series. Robo is like a funnier Hellboy and Tesladyne a more fun BPRD. That's not to say it's better than Mignola's stuff. I think Hellboy and BPRD do a much better job with character depth, and they're doing a great job with the massive story that Mignola's been unfolding since early in Hellboy's run. But Clevinger and Wegener have some great stories of their own (especially "The Shadow from Beyond Time," which is in the third trade), and they certainly handle comedy better. More than anything else, Atomic Robo is hilarious.

This particular trade was surprisingly un-beginning-ish to me. I thought I had missed out on important backstory that I needed to piece together on my own because I started reading Atomic Robo with the third mini-series, but this first trade would beg to disagree. Clevinger took a very in medias res approach to the series, apparently, introducing Robo by simply taking him out and showing him doing what he does best: smashing things with SCIENCE! (and a few punches.) He does give a cursory explanation of how Robo came to work for the US government (apparently it earned him his status as a human being and the rights associated with it), but his origins are still relegated to the mere implication that Tesla built him. We never see it, nor do we even see Tesla himself.

Origins aside, though, this is still a really fun set of stories. It lacks the overarching focus of later mini-series. Rather than one full story arc, the six issues this trade collects are split into two stand-alone stories, a two-issue arc about Robo vs. a rogue pyramid in Egypt with flashbacks to a mission he had to Mars in the '70s, and a two-issue arc about Robo's continuing rivalry with an evil genius named Helsingard (whom he first meets in one of the earlier stand-alone stories). All of the stories are a whole lot of fun and the humor is as clever and funny as ever. Of particular note is the fact that Robo is apparently rivals with Stephen Hawking, which makes for one of the funniest endings I've ever seen on that Mars story.

Wegener's art is crisp and clean, as it is in the later Atomic Robo series. It's interesting to see how different Robo looks in these earlier stories, though. His design is the same, but the proportions are all different compared to how Wegener draws Robo in the later issues that I've already read. Robo appears smaller and skinnier in the first few issues of this trade, and the recessed sockets on his shoulder and elbow joints aren't quite as pronounced. In a word, he looks more realistic. Later on, Wegener widens Robo a bit, making him look stockier, and the joint sockets become much more pronounced and exaggerated, creating a more cartoonish look. I personally prefer the later style, but the art is no less effective in this trade. Kind of cool that you can see such a clear progression in Wegener's style over just a couple years and a few mini-series.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I'm currently reading the next F4 story that I found as recommended reading, which starts with issue #57. It's when Dr. Doom steals the cosmic powers of the Silver Surfer. The premise is really cool, and you can believe the Silver Surfer's gullibility; but, I'm having a very hard time with the overt sexism in the comic. Everyone treats the Invisible Woman like a child who must constantly be protected from the truth. Her powers are dismissed in such a way, that Reed is constantly telling her to run away while he uses his own powers to protect her. One moment in the second issue of the storyline, a freak storm happens, with a vision of Dr. Doom in the center. Reed thinks to himself, "There's more to this than a casual phenomenon of nature -- But I mustn't let Sue become alarmed!" A couple panels later, even Ben thinks to himself, "(Reed) knows blamed well what the score is -- But he don't want to upset Susie! I should have figured that!"

There is so much about this story that is great storytelling, like all the different storylines that Stan and Jack had been building up month after month. Yet, due to the time this comic was published, such dismissive ways toward women make it extremely difficult to enjoy today. Sue is probably the most powerful of all the F4; yet, she's treated as if she just turns invisible and can use her force field to defend herself and not use it as a deadly weapon against all the evil forces. (In fact, it's usually Reed telling her how to use her powers, and she seems to lack any kind of smarts or initiative.)

Just finished Doomsday, which is in Fantastic Four #57-60. It's a great premise for a storyline; it's just the execution didn't work for a variety of reasons. One was the sexism which I explained above, and the other is that when Doom gains the cosmic powers from the Silver Surfer, he uses those powers in ridiculous ways. Even in battling the Fantastic Four, his methods are at most rather childish. (Kind of like telling a kid they can have any 3 wishes in the world, and they say, "I want a big hot fudge sundae!") Even in the end, he's beaten not by the Fantastic Four, but by Galactus' decision that the Silver Surfer cannot leave Earth. (Doom didn't realize this, and when he tried to leave, I guess the powers reverted back to the Silver Surfer. That's not shown in the final issue, but it's implied.)

Not too thrilled with this story. The Galactus one is far superior. I think for my next F4 story, I'll have to jump past the Lee/Kirby era.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Stupid Questions thread got me to thinking of this arc.


Ever wonder what happened to the Beyonder's Planet?
How did Ultron get back to Earth after the Secret Wars?
Why could Ben Grimm change back and forth during the Secret Wars?

These and other strange adventures await when you read...


ROCKY GRIMM
Space Ranger!!!

See Strange Tales and Weird Adventures as Rocky faces unknown horrors.

Like Frankenstein!!!

Also see a watershed moment in Ben Grimm's life as he comes face to face with the REAL reason why he can't change back and forth like the other Fantastic Four.

Surprises await. Pick up those issues...


NOW!!!

 

[JewishHobbit]

I've ALWAYS wanted to read that series! That and what was the other one he was in... Marvel Two-In-One I think?

 

[Franklin Richards]

Oh yeah. Marvel Two-In-One needs a revival in the WORST way. That series turned Ben into the "Kevin Bacon" of the Marvel Universe.

 

[Phaedrus45]

It's amazing how inexpensive both series are if you look around. I have complete sets of both. Plus, I see The Thing all the time when I go to comic conventions in the 50 cent and under bins.

 

[venom892]

Went to a comic convention couple weeks ago so I'll be reviewing a lot of old comics soon.I'm going to start with an OGN I've wanted to get for a while.Amazing Spider-man Soul of the hunter.

It serves as a sequel to Kraven's Last Hunt that was released in 1992.It's by the same creative team which is a plus.I've always loved Dematteis work on Spider-man.We start with a funeral of one of Peter's friend's mother.Peter sees the coffin and begins to remember being buried and has a bit of freak out.He goes swinging around to calm down and saves a kid playing from a pit.But as soon as he does the pit again reminds him of being buried.Peter refuses to MJ about the incident with Kraven and she comments that if he doesn't with somebody it will continue to eat him up.Soon he sees Kraven's Ghost and that's where the main plot begins.I won't spoil the rest as I believe anyone who is a fan of the original story or even just Spider-man should pick it up as it delves into the character's psyche as well as he's beliefs.A great read and highly recommended.

 

[runawayboulder]

I remember those issues of The Thing when I was a kid. I think Byrne wrote the SW follow up arc right? I'm not too sure...I can't remember who drew it either but the art was awesome. That was some good reading.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I'm currently reading The Great Darkness Saga that ran in Legion Of Super-Heroes back in the 80's. This was truly one of the first DC stories that just WOWed me in a way that Marvel always did. Paul Levitz was a great writer, and I'm glad to see him back at DC comics.

This story still holds up just as much as it did when I was a kid. That's really something to say, too. I've read some of those old 80's stories, and they don't seem to hold a candle to my recollections. Levitz had so many layers to his Legion stories...and, while The Great Darkness Saga is the main focus of these issues, there is a lot going on with the characters and what's happened before and what's going to happen afterwards. It was one of those titles that made me go back to the back-issue-bin and grab stuff I missed.

I know they are putting this Saga out in trade paperback soon...if they haven't already. I highly recommend picking it up. A+ stuff!!!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There was a trade of "The Great Darkness Saga" already. I think it's been out of print for a while, though.

 

[Phaedrus45]

I think it's being re-released. I remember seeing it in an issue of Previews...but, think it might be in a couple months.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I still haven't read it. I'll have to keep an eye out for the reprint.

 

[Themanofbat]

Was this around Legion #288 ish?

I ask because I remember being really wowed by a Legion story around those issues...

 

[JewishHobbit]

Went to a comic convention couple weeks ago so I'll be reviewing a lot of old comics soon.I'm going to start with an OGN I've wanted to get for a while.Amazing Spider-man Soul of the hunter.

It serves as a sequel to Kraven's Last Hunt that was released in 1992.It's by the same creative team which is a plus.I've always loved Dematteis work on Spider-man.We start with a funeral of one of Peter's friend's mother.Peter sees the coffin and begins to remember being buried and has a bit of freak out.He goes swinging around to calm down and saves a kid playing from a pit.But as soon as he does the pit again reminds him of being buried.Peter refuses to MJ about the incident with Kraven and she comments that if he doesn't with somebody it will continue to eat him up.Soon he sees Kraven's Ghost and that's where the main plot begins.I won't spoil the rest as I believe anyone who is a fan of the original story or even just Spider-man should pick it up as it delves into the character's psyche as well as he's beliefs.A great read and highly recommended.

I've always been curious about that one. I loved Kraven's Last Hunt as well as two of the semi-sequels Torment and The Child Within. Isn't this issue oversized or something? Not normal comic size?

 

[Themanofbat]

It's a thicker comic sized-book ala Dark Knight returns...

 

[venom892]

I've always been curious about that one. I loved Kraven's Last Hunt as well as two of the semi-sequels Torment and The Child Within. Isn't this issue oversized or something? Not normal comic size?

It's an original Graphic Novel I'd say it's about 80 pages.If your fan of Child Within and KLH you'll love it.I was lucky enough to get it for a dollar at a recent con.

 

[Phaedrus45]

Was this around Legion #288 ish?

I ask because I remember being really wowed by a Legion story around those issues...

Issues 290-294...so, yeah, it's right around there.

Ok, I found it. On sale November 17th, Legion Of Super-Heroes: The Great Darkness Saga Deluxe Edition HC. It includes issues #284-296 & Annual #1. That's 416 pages for $39.99.

 

[JewishHobbit]

So Soul of the Hunter is just a thicker comic. How about hieght and width? I just ask because I like to bind my comics and I'm curious if it'd fit well in a bound volume with other Spidey comics or if it'd be too tall or wide.