The Official Batman Forever Thread - Part 2

[GothamAlleys]

Jones is a terrific actor, its not his fault. He had his line, he was instructed to cackle and act like a goofy hyperenergetic clown. Still, I found his take interesting and fun. Its riddler, Batman and almost everything else that I have a problem with

 

[El Payaso]

Jones is a terrific actor, its not his fault. He had his line, he was instructed to cackle and act like a goofy hyperenergetic clown.

I work for someone. He tells me to do something humilliating. That's where I say no. If I don't then it's my fault too.

 

[ALP]

I can't think of a single other series where the lead character changes its actor three films in a row. BR, BF, B&R. The Bond films at least do several films with the same actor before getting a new one. It's a recipe for failure. Does anyone know why Kilmer did not return for B&R? Was he just being smart? Granted, he still would not have made the film anymore tolerable.

 

[akfj]

Schumacher and Kilmer did not get along while filming Batman Forever. I think that had a lot to do with it.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Ya I read a few placed that Val and Joel had many arguments on the set as well as the rumor that Kilmer couldn't stand Jim Carrey. Val tried to clear up that rumor on the BF dvd extras but I'm not sure if I buy it.

 

[El Payaso]

Ya I read a few placed that Val and Joel had many arguments on the set as well as the rumor that Kilmer couldn't stand Jim Carrey. Val tried to clear up that rumor on the BF dvd extras but I'm not sure if I buy it.

In fact Val said so in "Inside of the Actors Studio." I mean, that him and Jim Carrey got along.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Does anyone know why Kilmer did not return for B&R?

Scroll down to B&R - http://gothamalleys.blogspot.com/2011/01/batman-in-movies-part-ii-val-kilmer.html

I work for someone. He tells me to do something humilliating. That's where I say no. If I don't then it's my fault too.

But its not humiliating. Jones wasnt a comic book fan, he wasnt familiar with Two Face. All he knew is that hes gonna be playing a clownish villain in a juvenile comic book movie. He read the script, he was friends wityh Schumacher, he took the part and agreed to play what was in the script and what Joel wanted

 

[El Payaso]

But its not humiliating. Jones wasnt a comic book fan, he wasnt familiar with Two Face. All he knew is that hes gonna be playing a clownish villain in a juvenile comic book movie. He read the script, he was friends wityh Schumacher, he took the part and agreed to play what was in the script and what Joel wanted

When you're in a long scene with your villiain-partner and all you do for 5 minuites is growling, grunting, mumbling and cackling while the other one does all the talking, that is humilliating for any actor. Unless your character is a mute, which is not the case. That happened - I mean, that's what he allowed to happen - to Jones in every scene (except the first one), including the climax, where all he did was jumping "and me... AaaaaaAAAaaand ME!" and cackle cackle cackle while Carrey ate the whole scene up.

Now, Jones not being a comic book fan doesn't exclude him from the responsibility of researching about what you're going to do. If you don't - and you should with that salary - then it is - once again - your fault. Actors who act in a book-based movie must read the book, right? Once at least.

Nothing justifies that level of poor acting. Specially if you've been an Oscar winner recently. There are lots of directors who could want you to do something just for the laughs or just to have your famous name on the marquee. But it's you, first and foremost, are the one who should safeguard your own career. And Jones didn't. His fault.

 

[GothamAlleys]

But again, I think Jones did very well with acting because he sold me that hes an insane clown right away, its just that the character was written and designed this way for the movie. He was merely acting out the version of the character that has been envisioned by the filmmakers. he delivered what they want.

At the same time I dont see much difference between Jones' Two-Face and Jones' character in Undersiege

 

[El Payaso]

But again, I think Jones did very well with acting because he sold me that hes an insane clown right away, its just that the character was written and designed this way for the movie. He was merely acting out the version of the character that has been envisioned by the filmmakers. he delivered what they want.

That's being effective, or obedient. Not good.

And what he did was not very well, not even as insane clown. Even as insane clown that was cheap and forgettable. And we have to consider the true nature pof the character. Because is he was offered Two-Face and he didn't know who he was and he didn't even research a little about it, then it is hios fault.

And, as I said before, if he's told to make the fool oput of himself, and he obeys, well... that's not only Schumacher's fault.

At the same time I dont see much difference between Jones' Two-Face and Jones' character in Undersiege

I haven't seen Undersiege but it's very possible that Jones has delivered two terrible acting pieces in his career.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

That happened - I mean, that's what he allowed to happen - to Jones in every scene (except the first one), including the climax, where all he did was jumping "and me... AaaaaaAAAaaand ME!" and cackle cackle cackle while Carrey ate the whole scene up.

This is an exageration, he has scenes throughout the movie where he has Two-Face style dialogue(in a similar style to the opening scene).
He's good in the scene where Carrey appears at his HQ.
He plays the robbery at Nygma Tech pretty straight when the scene opens, it's only when Batman appears that he gets excited and goes into clown mode.
He has the mix of dialogue and clowning again in the circus sequence, and is not too bad.
and plays it dead straight when he gets the drop on Robin.

I agree that he was pretty useless in the grand finale, but that was more Carrey's moment, he does get his own finale afterwards though.

In the scenes where he is ott cackling though, aye, it can be a bit too much, the scene where he is watching the secret id reveal for instance he goes into mugging overdrive, but the 'Say it..' 'You're a genius.' exchange at the end between him and Carrey was funny.

For the kind of Batman movie it is, a mix of serious and ott fun done in the colourful style of the 50s comics(which was intentional according to Schumacher on the dvd extras), he was not as bad a Two-Face as folk make out.

 

[Two-Face]

Jones isn't terrible actor his Two-Face shouldn't be blamed on him only it's the writer & director's fault. If Jones was in TDK he would been great as TF.

 

[Victarion]

Jones isn't terrible actor his Two-Face shouldn't be blamed on him only it's the writer & director's fault. If Jones was in TDK he would been great as TF.

I felt he was pretty good in the beginning when he was giving his "waiting on the bat to save you" speech to the security guard. The shot of the coin flipping with the Bat Signal in the background was great too. Then we got to ZIPPITY DOO-DAH!

wat. Mood whiplash tiem.

 

[El Payaso]

This is an exageration, he has scenes throughout the movie where he has Two-Face style dialogue(in a similar style to the opening scene).
He's good in the scene where Carrey appears at his HQ.
He plays the robbery at Nygma Tech pretty straight when the scene opens, it's only when Batman appears that he gets excited and goes into clown mode.
He has the mix of dialogue and clowning again in the circus sequence, and is not too bad.
and plays it dead straight when he gets the drop on Robin.

I agree that he was pretty useless in the grand finale, but that was more Carrey's moment, he does get his own finale afterwards though.

In the scenes where he is ott cackling though, aye, it can be a bit too much, the scene where he is watching the secret id reveal for instance he goes into mugging overdrive, but the 'Say it..' 'You're a genius.' exchange at the end between him and Carrey was funny.

For the kind of Batman movie it is, a mix of serious and ott fun done in the colourful style of the 50s comics(which was intentional according to Schumacher on the dvd extras), he was not as bad a Two-Face as folk make out.

Okay. Let's say what you say is truie: Jones did very well as Two-Face.

If he did well, then both the director and the actor are to be congratulated. If he did bad, then it's the same.

That said, oh boy how much he sucked as Two-Face!

Jones isn't terrible actor his Two-Face shouldn't be blamed on him only it's the writer & director's fault. If Jones was in TDK he would been great as TF.

I agree. I'm saying exactly that: Neither Schumacher nor Jones alone should be blamed for Two-Face. Both are responsible.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Okay. Let's say what you say is truie: Jones did very well as Two-Face.

If he did well, then both the director and the actor are to be congratulated. If he did bad, then it's the same.

That said, oh boy how much he sucked as Two-Face!

Where did I say he did very well as Two-Face?

All I said was that he was not as bad as folk make out, especially considering that Schumacher was aiming for the more colourful era of the 50s comics.

 

[El Payaso]

Where did I say he did very well as Two-Face?

All I said was that he was not as bad as folk make out, especially considering that Schumacher was aiming for the more colourful era of the 50s comics.

And I'm saying that in both cases, Schumacher shares part of the credit/blame.

 

[RolandDaggett]

I've always liked Batman Forever. The only major gripes I have with it are:

1. Bat nipples
2. Two-Face acting like the Joker
3. No Elfman Batman theme
4. Neon Gotham
5. Butt shot

 

[El Payaso]

I've always liked Batman Forever. The only major gripes I have with it are:

1. Bat nipples
2. Two-Face acting like the Joker
3. No Elfman Batman theme
4. Neon Gotham
5. Butt shot

I swear, that alone can destroy a movie.

 

[Two-Face]

Yeah Totally why Schumacher didn't cut that butt shot out.

 

[GothamAlleys]

Its not as bad as the metal phallus on Bane's chest

 

[El Payaso]

Yeah Totally why Schumacher didn't cut that butt shot out.

Real question is: why shooting that in the very first place???

 

[Rockbottom]

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn5ftuJOTew[/YT]

This Ad for the game is really weird, but strangely good and interesting actually.

 

[ALP]

I swear, that alone can destroy a movie.

Yeah I just don't understand why.

A shot of Batman's rubber ass. Moments like those definitely destroy the movie.

Its not as bad as the metal phallus on Bane's chest

When I thought it could get no worse. Did you really have to point that out? I had to look up a high res pic to know that my eyes weren't playing tricks on me. But alas, it's true

 

[jb007]

I thought Jim Carrey was a comic Riddler. He should have had a little more backbone.

 

[The Batkilt]

In fact Val said so in "Inside of the Actors Studio." I mean, that him and Jim Carrey got along.

Yeah, it seemed to be Joel Schumacher not getting on with Val Kilmer and Tommy Lee Jones from comments Joel made at the time.

I'm still gutted that the director's cut was never released on DVD/Blu-Ray. I've got the Alien/Aliens boxset, which has director's cuts as extras for some films. I'd have liked to have seen Joel's original vision for the film.