The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 1

[Iron_Stark]

Again, who's talking about Mayweather moving up? I let that debate go a long time ago.

You said GGG is a hype job, apart from Ward getting a slightly bigger paycheck, what's the point in fighting him then? Same with Jr.

Just answer if you think Ward will get recognition or if those fights will give him some kind of legendary status? Or is it just for the money?

 

[Docker2.0]

Again, who's talking about Mayweather moving up? I let that debate go a long time ago.

You said GGG is a hype job, apart from Ward getting a slightly bigger paycheck, what's the point in fighting him then? Same with Jr.

Just answer if you think Ward will get recognition or if those fights will give him some kind of legendary status? Or is it just for the money?

You mentioned Mayweather's name 5 or 6 posts ago. And as far as Ward goes, I think it will give him some recognition. He has cleaned out his division but him defeating JCC JR and GGG will not only give him some more names but money as well. He deserves it because of his career he has had. GGG has gotten the name of "the most feared man in boxing" or "I will fight anyone 154-168" but here we have Ward calling him out but now the time isn't right. I like to see GGG fight but he's only really has fought cab drivers thus far. I'd like to see him in with a slick boxer. Lara and Ward are a few of those guys who I think will expose GGG so he's in no rush to fight these guys. But yet he's the most feared and constantly calling out Mayweather and Martinez but when it comes to these other guys, there's no money in it. What he's saying is they may beat him and he doesn't want to lose yet. Lara and Ward have bigger names than any of the guys he has fought. And as for JCC Jr, he has a huge Mexican following. I don't blame Ward for trying to get that fight.

 

[Iron_Stark]

gtfo with that nonsense. The Mayweather blueprint for fights. Fight guys that are beatable but with fanbases.

I really do hope Ward never gets a big payday, he seems like a nice guy, the complete oposite of Broner, but his unwillingness to challenge himself and never leave the comfort of his hometown?

He's like those European fighters from years ago that would pad their records fighting in their turf and never coming to the big venues in the States to fight. Like Dariusz Michalczewski for example.

But I'm still trying to comprehend how you call GGG a hype job and someone that's tailor made for Ward, yet don't want to see Ward challenge himself.

 

[Docker2.0]

You again bring up Mayweather but yet claim it's me who does it. As far as my post, I can't say it any more plainer than I already did. Ward is the Super Middleweight champ. JCC Jr. is in that division. GGG called out anyone weighing 154-168, a division Ward is in. Why can't those two fight Ward? Ward wants to stay in his division while his body allows it and he deserves a payday. Those guys in the Light Heavyweight will be there for a few more years so why not stay where he is another year? Please say you understand it now.

 

[Iron_Stark]

I understand all of that just fine, it's you who calls people bums, hype jobs and easy fights for Ward, yet want him to fight Ward? Even though according to you he's not on his level and an easy fight.

Will you be getting a cut of the money or something?

 

[Docker2.0]

I do think GGG is a hype job but yet he's a good fighter. I'd say Ward, Floyd and a former Sergio are A level fighters, though Sergio may not be the same right now. I'd give GGG a B level because he hasn't fought anyone, yet people are pushing him to be some kind of monster but refuses to fight anyone with a name unless it's Sergio or Floyd. He says he's the most feared man in boxing but has been called out by numerous people, yet he doesn't see much of a reason to fight these guys.

 

[Doc Samson]

I do think GGG is a hype job but yet he's a good fighter. I'd say Ward, Floyd and a former Sergio are A level fighters, though Sergio may not be the same right now. I'd give GGG a B level because he hasn't fought anyone, yet people are pushing him to be some kind of monster but refuses to fight anyone with a name unless it's Sergio or Floyd. He says he's the most feared man in boxing but has been called out by numerous people, yet he doesn't see much of a reason to fight these guys.

You better hope he is.

As far as Ward goes, I thought I explained that to Stark pretty clearly before. Him going out of his hometown BEFORE being a champion, ok I get that. Now, I don't. He shouldn't have to go anywhere else to fight any of these guys. If they want a shot at a title, they should be coming to him, that's pretty much how it works.

But, if him going to them is the only thing stopping these fights from happening, I'm sure he would've boarded a plane a long time ago. The fact is, that's not the problem. None of these "names" he has available want the fight, it's plain and simple.

 

[Docker2.0]

I'm so confident that Sergio will win, I'd bet a banning for a week.

 

[Iron_Stark]

You better hope he is.

As far as Ward goes, I thought I explained that to Stark pretty clearly before. Him going out of his hometown BEFORE being a champion, ok I get that. Now, I don't. He shouldn't have to go anywhere else to fight any of these guys. If they want a shot at a title, they should be coming to him, that's pretty much how it works.

But, if him going to them is the only thing stopping these fights from happening, I'm sure he would've boarded a plane a long time ago. The fact is, that's not the problem. None of these "names" he has available want the fight, it's plain and simple.

Yeah but GGG and Chavez Jr aren't calling him out, nor should they have to, he's the one calling them out. They shouldn't have to bend to his demands just because he's champion. It's the same situation that Cotto/Martinez were in, Martinez may be champion, but if he wanted that payday then he knew he would be on the B-side of the promotion, fighting in MSG the weekend of the Puerto Rican Day Parade, and whatever other demand Cotto wanted.

The same thing should happen to Ward.

BTW, it's funny how years ago Joe Calzaghe and Dariusz Michalczewski would get lambasted by MAINLY Roy Jones Jr fans about those two never coming to the States and fighting over here and just getting wins in the comfort of their hiome towns, now when Ward is doing it all of a sudden the same fans (yes don't even lie, it's the same fans) who did the criticizing are now saying it's ok for Ward to stay in the comfort of his hometown and let the big name guys come to him. smdh.

For the record, I hope Ward NEVER gets the big payday he's hoping for, he's an American Olympic Gold Medalist, been a pro for ten years, been a champ since '08 and since then has only fought once out of his comfort zone. "Oh poor him, he deserves a big payday" F- that, guess what? he deserves what he gets. He's not one of these blue collar guys that had to leave their family and country to come to America or where ever, grind out a long career to get a shot at the big time, he's not an ex Olympian like De la Hoya, Whitaker, and yes even Mayweather, who early in their careers fought all over the world making a name for themselves so when the time was right and when they deserved it could pretty much fight exclusively in the venue of their choosing.

No he got out of the Olympics, and has done absolutely squat to make a name for himself and thinks he's big time like Mayweather and people should bow down to his demands? LMAO!

 

[Doc Samson]

I'm so confident that Sergio will win, I'd bet a banning for a week.

No way, I want you here to discuss the aftermath. By the way, I never said Sergio couldn't win, I just think there's a possibility he can definitely lose, or at the very least struggle. I think you're underestimating Cotto in a big way, he's one of the few guys of this era that can box and brawl, if need be. He's a tough customer & I also don't believe Sergio will be 100% probably ever again in his career. Add it all up and it makes for a tough night potentially...

Yeah but GGG and Chavez Jr aren't calling him out, nor should they have to, he's the one calling them out. They shouldn't have to bend to his demands just because he's champion. It's the same situation that Cotto/Martinez were in, Martinez may be champion, but if he wanted that payday then he knew he would be on the B-side of the promotion, fighting in MSG the weekend of the Puerto Rican Day Parade, and whatever other demand Cotto wanted.

The same thing should happen to Ward.

BTW, it's funny how years ago Joe Calzaghe and Dariusz Michalczewski would get lambasted by MAINLY Roy Jones Jr fans about those two never coming to the States and fighting over here and just getting wins in the comfort of their hiome towns, now when Ward is doing it all of a sudden the same fans (yes don't even lie, it's the same fans) who did the criticizing are now saying it's ok for Ward to stay in the comfort of his hometown and let the big name guys come to him. smdh.

For the record, I hope Ward NEVER gets the big payday he's hoping for, he's an American Olympic Gold Medalist, been a pro for ten years, been a champ since '08 and since then has only fought once out of his comfort zone. "Oh poor him, he deserves a big payday" F- that, guess what? he deserves what he gets. He's not one of these blue collar guys that had to leave their family and country to come to America or where ever, grind out a long career to get a shot at the big time, he's not an ex Olympian like De la Hoya, Whitaker, and yes even Mayweather, who early in their careers fought all over the world making a name for themselves so when the time was right and when they deserved it could pretty much fight exclusively in the venue of their choosing.

No he got out of the Olympics, and has done absolutely squat to make a name for himself and thinks he's big time like Mayweather and people should bow down to his demands? LMAO!

You make it sound as if Ward doesn't deserve to even be a champion lol, it's almost as absurd as your usual Mayweather nonsense. Guess you have a new boxer to hate on (even though he's about as much of a class act as you can get in boxing) but the bottomline is Ward is a victim of a weak division more than anything else, we all know this. If he chooses to stay in said division, that's on him as far as how his career is going to go.

I also know he had some issues with trying to get released from his contract with his promoter, which certainly doesn't help matters. But the fact remains, he's a Top 2-3 fighter on the planet right now. Making some concessions is cool, but having to bend over backwards for guys who don't really want to fight him makes little sense. As I keep saying, had the venue been the only problem, those fights would've been done. They just don't want the fight, it doesn't matter if it's Oakland, Europe, Africa, Antarctica, Pluto, Mars, they don't want to fight Andre Ward in any capacity. Simple.

 

[Iron_Stark]

No way, I want you here to discuss the aftermath. By the way, I never said Sergio couldn't win, I just think there's a possibility he can definitely lose, or at the very least struggle. I think you're underestimating Cotto in a big way, he's one of the few guys of this era that can box and brawl, if need be. He's a tough customer & I also don't believe Sergio will be 100% probably ever again in his career. Add it all up and it makes for a tough night potentially...



You make it sound as if Ward doesn't deserve to even be a champion lol, it's almost as absurd as your usual Mayweather nonsense. Guess you have a new boxer to hate on (even though he's about as much of a class act as you can get in boxing) but the bottomline is Ward is a victim of a weak division more than anything else, we all know this. If he chooses to stay in said division, that's on him as far as how his career is going to go.

I also know he had some issues with trying to get released from his contract with his promoter, which certainly doesn't help matters. But the fact remains, he's a Top 2-3 fighter on the planet right now. Making some concessions is cool, but having to bend over backwards for guys who don't really want to fight him makes little sense. As I keep saying, had the venue been the only problem, those fights would've been done. They just don't want the fight, it doesn't matter if it's Oakland, Europe, Africa, Antarctica, Pluto, Mars, they don't want to fight Andre Ward in any capacity. Simple.

Its the same situation as always. Same situation ya'll keep harping on when I say why Mayweather won't go up to fight Lara, GGG, Martinez, HIGH risk low reward. In GGG and JCCJR's mind, why go up in weight, fight in enemy territory, get outboxed or robbed only to get a mediocre payday,.

In reality what does Ward bring to the table? His fanbase, all ten of them, isn't great, he's never had a PPV fight, let alone been a PPV star, and his style would give both of them problems.

He definitely isn't Mayweather, so GGG and JCCJR payday wouldn't be all that great, he isn't even on the level (popularity wise) of Froch or those 175lbs Canadians that sell out stadiums.

But you're right the venue isn't the problem, the major problem is that Ward wouldn't bring in enough money and as YOU keep harping, money is the major factor when it comes to making a fight. (see your justification for the proposed Mayweather/Khan fight) These guys need to get paid right?

 

[Fallen Angel]

Carl Froch vs George Groves II this weekend should be a good one. Their first fight was controversial to say the least. Froch was getting schooled Groves won the first 8 rounds and then seemingly couldn't defend himself in the 9th apparently and ref stopped the fight.

 

[Doc Samson]

Its the same situation as always. Same situation ya'll keep harping on when I say why Mayweather won't go up to fight Lara, GGG, Martinez, HIGH risk low reward. In GGG and JCCJR's mind, why go up in weight, fight in enemy territory, get outboxed or robbed only to get a mediocre payday,.

In reality what does Ward bring to the table? His fanbase, all ten of them, isn't great, he's never had a PPV fight, let alone been a PPV star, and his style would give both of them problems.

He definitely isn't Mayweather, so GGG and JCCJR payday wouldn't be all that great, he isn't even on the level (popularity wise) of Froch or those 175lbs Canadians that sell out stadiums.

But you're right the venue isn't the problem, the major problem is that Ward wouldn't bring in enough money and as YOU keep harping, money is the major factor when it comes to making a fight. (see your justification for the proposed Mayweather/Khan fight) These guys need to get paid right?

Oh, so it's ok for these guys to duck Ward but in your imaginary world where Floyd ducked everybody whatever, it was an issue? JCC in particular doesn't have enough wiggle room for too many more bad performances. Against Ward, it would certainly be a bad night.

I never tried to justify the Khan fight, I was saying why it made sense to Floyd Mayweather to fight him, not to me. I never said he should fight Khan, but I did say Khan's speed would throw him off for a bit because he would certainly be the fastest boxer he's faced since Judah, and Judah was winning the first 4-5 rounds based off that speed alone.

And in comparison of Khan & Maidana, I thought Khan would've been the better match and I still do. Nothing about that Maidana fight leads me to believe Floyd was in any trouble, all he did was foul. If Floyd fought that type of way you would've been in here screaming bloody murder.

 

[Docker2.0]

Donaire won in China with controversy. I swear that's why Arum wants to fight over there. Donaire, I feel, really wants to please the fans and said he'd give a rematch but I'd bet anything Arum will try his best to make sure it doesn't happen.

 

[Fallen Angel]

I also saw the fight Donaire has looked a shadow of the boxer he once was since he lost to Rigondeaux.


Macau also get bigger tax breaks. They made double what they would do in Vegas last year.

 

[Docker2.0]

They do but you are losing most of your American fans by doing so. I thought the fight was tonight but it comes on here on HBO at 4 pm which is in the middle of the day. They may get bigger tax breaks while trying to build up the chinese brand and paying less taxes but I just don't see this as a good thing. I don't know who Paq is fighting next but if it's in China again, I can guarantee you his ppv sales will suffer.

 

[Fallen Angel]

I suggest you guys look for the Froch KO to Groves. Groves KO'd in the 8th.

He got sparked out.

 

[antonydelfini]

I had Donaire winning all 4 rounds. The cut he suffered at the end of round 1 was really horrible cut so I had no problem with the decision.

I'll watch Froch Groves later.

 

[Docker2.0]

Saw the Donaire fight. I had him clearly winning as well but that ref sucked! I never saw a guy call his own timeout 3-4 times in a fight! Also, I don't think that was a headbutt that caught Donaire. I think it was a straight left hand and I think Donaire knows it and that's why he felt bad about the win. I think if they fought again, Donaire would knock dude out. But that ref sucked!

I saw the Groves/Froch fight but I don't get all these guys avoiding Ward. I was kind of rooting for Groves because he was willing to fight Ward outside of California, where as Froch has made it known he's not fighting Ward unless it's in Europe and even then he doubts the fight happens. It amazes me how JCC Jr, GGG, and Froch all call each other out but ignore the elephant in the room in Ward.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Saw the Donaire fight. I had him clearly winning as well but that ref sucked! I never saw a guy call his own timeout 3-4 times in a fight! Also, I don't think that was a headbutt that caught Donaire. I think it was a straight left hand and I think Donaire knows it and that's why he felt bad about the win. I think if they fought again, Donaire would knock dude out. But that ref sucked!

I saw the Groves/Froch fight but I don't get all these guys avoiding Ward. I was kind of rooting for Groves because he was willing to fight Ward outside of California, where as Froch has made it known he's not fighting Ward unless it's in Europe and even then he doubts the fight happens. It amazes me how JCC Jr, GGG, and Froch all call each other out but ignore the elephant in the room in Ward.

Give me a break, why fight Ward in Oakland or Atlantic City again, Ward can't draw flies to sh-. Nobody cares about Ward except for his 10 fans. You think Ward could fill up a stadium? Froch/Ward would be HUGE in England. Froch/JCCJR would be huge in Las Vegas or England, Froch/GGG would be huge in England or anywhere else in Europe.

Why would anyone want to lose a clichfest with Ward and get a mediocre payday at an empty arena in Oakland, when they could get a huge payday and sellout stadiums anywhere else?

Like Mayweather and his fans would always say "if it don't make money, it don't make cents (sense)"


As far as Donaire goes, gtfo, it was a headbutt.

 

[Docker2.0]

Must you always come off as an ******* for someone stating their opinion?

I don't know how to say it any clearer than I already have. I think Donaire was winning the fight, every single round! But when I saw the punch and "headbutt" I thought the left hand opened him up. Period. I maybe wrong but that's my opinion.

We agree about Ward, as I've said numerous times. I think Ward needs to get out of California and fight in Vegas more if he wants to increase his brand and marketing. I also think he needs to get with Al Haymon as well. There's a reason why his stable of fighters tend to be some of the most marketable fighters on the planet from every background. I know Ward has management issues but Haymon could "advise" him with his career or Mayweather Promotions with Schaefer could buy him out of his contract. I don't know what he is doing with his career but it is not good right now.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Must you always come off as an ******* for someone stating their opinion?

I don't know how to say it any clearer than I already have. I think Donaire was winning the fight, every single round! But when I saw the punch and "headbutt" I thought the left hand opened him up. Period. I maybe wrong but that's my opinion.

We agree about Ward, as I've said numerous times. I think Ward needs to get out of California and fight in Vegas more if he wants to increase his brand and marketing. I also think he needs to get with Al Haymon as well. There's a reason why his stable of fighters tend to be some of the most marketable fighters on the planet from every background. I know Ward has management issues but Haymon could "advise" him with his career or Mayweather Promotions with Schaefer could buy him out of his contract. I don't know what he is doing with his career but it is not good right now.

Ward may have to look elsewhere, sure he could sign with Haymon, but then what? Mayweather Promotions is just an LLC. They're not a promotion company.

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/3/5/2848174/what-is-mayweather-promotions-yuriorkis-gamboa

And Shaefer probably isn't going to be working in the boxing business anytime soon, he has a "no compete" clause until 2018, so unless they come to a settlement, he won't be working in the boxing business anytime soon.

I'm wondering who's going to be promoting Mayweather in September, they don't have a promoter, the Ali Act prohibits Haymon from promoting, Mayweather Promotions isn't a promotion company. I'm sure if he goes with another promotion company he's not going to get a huge payday like he was a Golden Boy.

 

[Docker2.0]

Ward may have to look elsewhere, sure he could sign with Haymon, but then what? Mayweather Promotions is just an LLC. They're not a promotion company.

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/3/5/2848174/what-is-mayweather-promotions-yuriorkis-gamboa

And Shaefer probably isn't going to be working in the boxing business anytime soon, he has a "no compete" clause until 2018, so unless they come to a settlement, he won't be working in the boxing business anytime soon.

I'm wondering who's going to be promoting Mayweather in September, they don't have a promoter, the Ali Act prohibits Haymon from promoting, Mayweather Promotions isn't a promotion company. I'm sure if he goes with another promotion company he's not going to get a huge payday like he was a Golden Boy.

Wait, what?! This is the first I'm hearing of this because from my understanding, he was headed toward TMT and quite possibly forming his own company with Al Haymon. Speaking of which, why can't Haymon have his own company? I never understood the reasons behind why he couldn't. I've only seen the man ringside one time at a fight and that was the Mayweather/Canelo fight and he was there for only 2 minutes and was gone.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Wait, what?! This is the first I'm hearing of this because from my understanding, he was headed toward TMT and quite possibly forming his own company with Al Haymon. Speaking of which, why can't Haymon have his own company? I never understood the reasons behind why he couldn't. I've only seen the man ringside one time at a fight and that was the Mayweather/Canelo fight and he was there for only 2 minutes and was gone.

Unless he can reach a settlement at GBP, he's still going to remain a shareholder until 2018 and GBP said they plan on keeping him that way. Meaning it's going to get ugly in a court room.

I don't see him promoting Mayweather for atleast this upcoming fight.

Everyone is going to lose in this split, GBP will lose fighters that go with Haymon, Haymon will lose guys that choose to stay loyal with GBP, and Mayweather has already lost a lot of options as far as who he fights next, for example, will Maidana who is a Haymon guy really be promoted by a Mayweather run company and pretty much have Mayweather be his boss or stay with GBP? I can see that rematch and big payday caput. And the upcoming Canelo/Lara fight just became the most important fight in GBP, should Canelo lose, it will be a huge blow for GBP.

Mayweather has been doing good by fighting Latino fighters and because GBP knows how to promote and sell to the Latino market, I know for a fact that will not be the case in Mayweather's upcoming fight, because unless Sheafer can promote the next fight TMT/Mayweather Promotions (if and that's a big IF they get licensed by September) will not know how to sell to the Latino public. Maybe if they fight Danny Garcia, but I doubt it would sell big with the southwest region of the US. That would bomb worse that the Guerrero fight.

Things will be getting interesting in the coming weeks.

Also Haymon can't have his own company, he's a manager and the Muhammad Ali Act prohibits him from promoting fights. That's why he's getting sued by Kathy Duva/Main Events.

In an even more serious charge, Duva contends that Haymon, who does not speak to the media or even like to be seen in public, is not just an adviser and manager but also acts as a promoter, which would be a violation of the federal Muhammad Ali Boxing Reform Act. The law makes it illegal in the United States to act as a manager (who has a fiduciary duty to the boxer) and a promoter (who doesn't have a fiduciary duty to the boxer).

http://espn.go.com/boxing/story/_/id/10867472/main-events-sues-adonis-stevenson-several-others

 

[Docker2.0]

Agreed on all points. This might be the death of boxing. I honestly don't get why Haymon considered himself only a manager in the first place. I actually can see him buying himself out of this out of court. If Duva was to get the Stevenson fight, I can see her not pursuing this.