The Official Boxing Thread!!! - Part 5

[InCali]

I’m still enjoying rewatching that round 9.

I just watched the video you posted......that's where the ref either stops it or lets it go. Period.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I’m still enjoying rewatching that round 9.

I can't stop watching it!

It was so satisfying to watch. Glad your dad enjoyed it.

 

[B]

Saw the replay of the Fury/Uysk contest, was a competitive bout throughout & while Fury had his moments, I think Uysk in the end won by a couple of rounds. Rematch will be interesting for sure, hopefully they don't host it again in Saudi Arabia, get that to the US, UK or somewhere in Europe Uysk considers home territory.

 

[B]

I just watched the video you posted......that's where the ref either stops it or lets it go. Period.

If the ropes keep a fighter up it's a knockdown, the referee would have got so much backlash for that if he'd saw Fury bounce off the ropes not once, but twice & continued to just let Uysk drop bombs on him before stopping it.

I wouldn't have stopped it either for that, but I'm off the MMA breed in regards to stoppages regarding strikes. You need to be unconscious or if you're still standing eating undefended haymakers with a visible demeanor that you are just completely unable to defend yourself.

 

[InCali]

If the ropes keep a fighter up it's a knockdown, the referee would have got so much backlash for that if he'd saw Fury bounce off the ropes not once, but twice & continued to just let Uysk drop bombs on him before stopping it.

I wouldn't have stopped it either for that, but I'm off the MMA breed in regards to stoppages regarding strikes. You need to be unconscious or if you're still standing eating undefended haymakers with a visible demeanor that you are just completely unable to defend yourself.

I'm not as familiar with MMA (though I've watched bouts on several occasions), but I'm from a family of people who boxed (father was a professional boxer; albeit a long time ago LOL) and I also boxed. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a guy hit the ropes like that without the ref stepping in and, when he does, it's to stop the fight. In fact, that's what it looked like he was doing. Now I'm sure what actually happened has happened before, but I don't really recall it. If the guy is defenseless, you stop it. If he's not, it continues until he hits the canvas or the ref steps in to stop the punishment. In the latter case, the fight is over.

Like I said, I'm sure standing 8s have happened in the pros, but I can't remember seeing one. In fact, I "think" there was a rule change with regard to standing 8s.

EDIT: Here it is....

The Association of Boxing Commissions later eliminated the standing eight count in 1998 and it is usually not invoked in professional bouts today. A standing eight count is different from a mandatory eight count, which is only assessed once a fighter is knocked down.

Generally speaking, the ref will give the champ defending his title a little more leeway before stopping the fight, but a standing 8 in a championship fight is pretty ridiculous. Had it been the other way around, that fight is stopped (IMO.....we'll never really know). This was a gift by the ref to Fury.

 

[B]

I'm not as familiar with MMA (though I've watched bouts on several occasions), but I'm from a family of people who boxed (father was a professional boxer; albeit a long time ago LOL) and I also boxed. I can't tell you how many times I've seen a guy hit the ropes like that without the ref stepping in and, when he does, it's to stop the fight. In fact, that's what it looked like he was doing. Now I'm sure what actually happened has happened before, but I don't really recall it. If the guy is defenseless, you stop it. If he's not, it continues until he hits the canvas or the ref steps in to stop the punishment. In the latter case, the fight is over.

Like I said, I'm sure standing 8s have happened in the pros, but I can't remember seeing one. In fact, I "think" there was a rule change with regard to standing 8s.

EDIT: Here it is....

The Association of Boxing Commissions later eliminated the standing eight count in 1998 and it is usually not invoked in professional bouts today. A standing eight count is different from a mandatory eight count, which is only assessed once a fighter is knocked down.

Generally speaking, the ref will give the champ defending his title a little more leeway before stopping the fight, but a standing 8 in a championship fight is pretty ridiculous. Had it been the other way around, that fight is stopped (IMO.....we'll never really know). This was a gift by the ref to Fury.

For as long as I've ever watched boxing I always thought that was a set in stone rule that if a fighter staggers into the ropes & the only thing that stopped him from going down was the ropes, then it's classed a knockdown & fighter is given a count. I am almost certain I've seen it happen in pro fights, I couldn't name you any off memory though.

 

[InCali]

For as long as I've ever watched boxing I always thought that was a set in stone rule that if a fighter staggers into the ropes & the only thing that stopped him from going down was the ropes, then it's classed a knockdown & fighter is given a count. I am almost certain I've seen it happen in pro fights, I couldn't name you any off memory though.

A knockdown can certainly be called if the ropes keep them from going down. That, however, is a judgement call by the ref. "Generally" you see that when someone goes flying across the ring (embellishment LOL), would have obviously gone down, but is saved by the ropes. In general, if someone is pinned against the ropes, is taking a beating, and isn't firing back, the fight is stopped. Fury certainly would have gone down without the ropes, the ref has some discretion here, but IMO, in that situation, you either let it go or stop it.

After watching it again and thinking about it, it wasn't really a standing 8, but the ref kind of butchered it.....not as bad I thought though on first take.

 

[B]

A knockdown can certainly be called if the ropes keep them from going down. That, however, is a judgement call by the ref. "Generally" you see that when someone goes flying across the ring (embellishment LOL), would have obviously gone down, but is saved by the ropes. In general, if someone is pinned against the ropes, is taking a beating, and isn't firing back, the fight is stopped. Fury certainly would have gone down without the ropes, the ref has some discretion here, but IMO, in that situation, you either let it go or stop it.

After watching it again and thinking about it, it wasn't really a standing 8, but the ref kind of butchered it.....not as bad I thought though on first take.

I agree, I don't really think it's a standing 8 although my definition of it might be different to yours or mine might just be outright wrong compared to what the official rulebook says. I always thought a standing 8 was when a fighter was visibly hurt, but still had his guard up with the occasional blow passing. Standing 8 would be been an alternative to stopping the contest on the spot & give the defending fighter basically his final warning that the fight will be stopped if the same trend continued & he didn't show something different.

I thought the step in from the ref in the fight was more down to the fact that he staggered into & off the middle of the ropes back into Uysk, which should have been a knockdown, but he let it run until Fury staggered into the ropes again seconds later near the corner which would have been a knockdown also. So he got away with escaping a knockdown call with the first bounce, but not the second.

If that was any other fighter, I think it probably would have just been called as you said, Fury's reputation for recovering from hard shots as well as obviously his name/fame/titles are probably what earned him the benefit of the doubt & just given as a knockdown with the chance to continue.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

The ref was absolutely right to step in the way he did. The only reason Fury wasn't on the ground was because he fell against the ropes.

 

[InCali]

I agree, I don't really think it's a standing 8 although my definition of it might be different to yours or mine might just be outright wrong compared to what the official rulebook says. I always thought a standing 8 was when a fighter was visibly hurt, but still had his guard up with the occasional blow passing. Standing 8 would be been an alternative to stopping the contest on the spot & give the defending fighter basically his final warning that the fight will be stopped if the same trend continued & he didn't show something different.

I thought the step in from the ref in the fight was more down to the fact that he staggered into & off the middle of the ropes back into Uysk, which should have been a knockdown, but he let it run until Fury staggered into the ropes again seconds later near the corner which would have been a knockdown also. So he got away with escaping a knockdown call with the first bounce, but not the second.

If that was any other fighter, I think it probably would have just been called as you said, Fury's reputation for recovering from hard shots as well as obviously his name/fame/titles are probably what earned him the benefit of the doubt & just given as a knockdown with the chance to continue.

I think it was because Fury was the champ. Fights are supposed to be called without preference, but everyone knows that's not the case; whether it's a case like this or scoring. It's just a known "how it works" thing.

 

[Iceman]

Fury-Usyk rematch date set
Tyson Fury and Oleksandr Usyk rematch set for December 21 in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

 

[Iceman]

Kind of a unique event on Sat with Promoter vs Promoter lineups going head to head: Queensberry (Frank Warren) vs Matchroom (Eddie Hearn). Could be fun. Unfortunately Beterbiev is injured or we would have had Bivol vs Beterbiev too.

MSN

matchroom-vs-queensberry-5-vs-5-card-as-eddie-hearn-s-boxers-face-frank-warren

Deontay Wilder vs Zhilei Zhang (heavyweight)

Filip Hrgovic vs Daniel Dubois (heavyweight)

Austin “Ammo” Williams vs Hamzah Sheeraz (middleweight)

Dmitry Bivol (C) vs Malik Zinad (WBA light-heavyweight title)

Raymond Ford (C) vs Nick Ball (WBA featherweight title)

Craig “Spider” Richards vs Willy Hutchinson (light-heavyweight)

 

[Iceman]

Hrgovic vs Dubois entertaining so far. A lot of heavy regular punches from both guys and Dubois unsettling Hrgovic more than expected.

Bivol did the job earlier with a fast finish after his opponent managed to last 6 rounds and give a good account of himself.

 

[Iceman]

Dubois wins after the fight gets stopped due to bad cuts above the eyes.

Wilder vs Zhang up next.

 

[Iceman]

Wilder hasn’t got it anymore. Big KO in round 5 after turning his back getting caught while trying to throw himself. He’s too old now and being a one trick pony all his life using windmill punches against tin cans, the 1-2 doesn’t save him now against other top 10 boxers who can at least box a bit.

 

[blueharvest]

Mike Tyson-Jake Paul Netflix Fight Postponed Due To Former Champ’s Ulcer Issue

The fight between former unified heavyweight champ Mike Tyson and social media personality Jake Paul has been postponed.

deadline.com

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Wilder hasn’t got it anymore. Big KO in round 5 after turning his back getting caught while trying to throw himself. He’s too old now and being a one trick pony all his life using windmill punches against tin cans, the 1-2 doesn’t save him now against other top 10 boxers who can at least box a bit.

Wilder either needs to retire or take some fights against lesser opponents again. Maybe he thought he was doing that with Parker and Zhang but Parker can move and Zhang can hit and take a hit as well.

I think even the likes of Chisora beat Wilder at the moment. He's done.

 

[theastsunnn]

Fight Francis or retire

 

[B]

Wilder looked shot, Zhang was a very dangerous fight to take given the weight difference & how he struggled vs Fury with that, if I recall when Zhang fought Parker he rang his bell a few times & could easily have been given the nod, so it wasn't an easy fight to take for Wilder.

Question is where to go from here, I'd retire if I was him personally, but if he wants to fight further Ngannou would probably be the most interesting fight for him & possibly best money, possibly even Dillian Whyte given their history, but are either going to get him close to being back on top? Probably not. As I say, I'd retire, no sense in risking permanent damage, when you start to notice a trend in taking more punishment than ever before in your career, it's time to start considering retirement IMO.

 

[Iceman]

Wilder either needs to retire or take some fights against lesser opponents again. Maybe he thought he was doing that with Parker and Zhang but Parker can move and Zhang can hit and take a hit as well.

I think even the likes of Chisora beat Wilder at the moment. He's done.

He got used to taking on tin cans and probably didn't the realise the threat of those on the tier below the top who you can't just walk through and who will give you big problems if you don't show up or train properly. He's always been such a 1 dimensional boxer with very limited boxing skills that it's no surprise he gets found out when he loses a bit of sharpness with age. At the moment he's at risk of damaging his health as he can't defend himself.

 

[Iceman]

Wilder looked shot, Zhang was a very dangerous fight to take given the weight difference & how he struggled vs Fury with that, if I recall when Zhang fought Parker he rang his bell a few times & could easily have been given the nod, so it wasn't an easy fight to take for Wilder.

Question is where to go from here, I'd retire if I was him personally, but if he wants to fight further Ngannou would probably be the most interesting fight for him & possibly best money, possibly even Dillian Whyte given their history, but are either going to get him close to being back on top? Probably not. As I say, I'd retire, no sense in risking permanent damage, when you start to notice a trend in taking more punishment than ever before in your career, it's time to start considering retirement IMO.

I gave him some credit for finally taking on fighters who weren't walkovers like the majority of opponents on his card, but at this stage he isn't the same fighter who can unload his secret weapon at ease to mask his other deficiencies. Ngannou and Whyte might be more beatable than some others, but they can both hit hard too so in the interests of not taking too much more damage his camp should be careful and see how well he trains going forward and if the desire/ability is still really there.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

He got used to taking on tin cans and probably didn't the realise the threat of those on the tier below the top who you can't just walk through and who will give you big problems if you don't show up or train properly. He's always been such a 1 dimensional boxer with very limited boxing skills that it's no surprise he gets found out when he loses a bit of sharpness with age. At the moment he's at risk of damaging his health as he can't defend himself.

Yeah he’s never developed himself as a boxer and relied on power. Power will get you far, but for that extra step you need to be able to box, look at Usyk and Fury. Neither got exceptional power but both can box.

 

[Iceman]

Yeah he’s never developed himself as a boxer and relied on power. Power will get you far, but for that extra step you need to be able to box, look at Usyk and Fury. Neither got exceptional power but both can box.

It's a shame as if he or his camp had bothered to focus on improving his skills and defence over all this time he would have had a high ceiling with that 1-2 punch power in the locker. Part of it is also avoiding the big opponents for so long as that meant he didn't need to develop and could windmill his way to victory till right near the end.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

It's a shame as if he or his camp had bothered to focus on improving his skills and defence over all this time he would have had a high ceiling with that 1-2 punch power in the locker. Part of it is also avoiding the big opponents for so long as that meant he didn't need to develop and could windmill his way to victory till right near the end.

Yeah avoiding big fights until recently certainly hasn't helped. He hasn't developed by beating bums.

 

[Iceman]

I’m really glad a proper boxer has finally arrived at heavyweight in Usyk. With his height he shouldn't really have a chance in the modern giant heavyweight division, but he's so much better a boxer pound for pound than anyone else there. Can only imagine what kind of contest it would be if the big guys were Usyk's height and Usyk was their height.