The Official Boxing Thread!!!

[Scooter]

At least he isn't making us pay extra for it. That's really all you can say about that one.

 

[E. Nygma]

Looks like Floyd Mayweather is going to be stepping into another ring, the wrestling ring now. He was at the WWE PPV last night where he "attacked" the returning superstar The Big Show.

 

[Bubonic]

Pavlik/Taylor 2 tonight *****es!

How'd you like the fight, I heard it went the distance?

I enjoy any good fight, but I'm in the camp who feels the MMA is slowly, but surely going to leave boxing in its shadow.

 

[Scooter]

How'd you like the fight, I heard it went the distance?

I enjoy any good fight, but I'm in the camp who feels the MMA is slowly, but surely going to leave boxing in its shadow.

It was a good fight. Not as explosive as the first, but quite entertaining. The undercard was pretty good too.

**** MMA. **** puts me to sleep. t:

 

[3dman27]

ii have a question abous showtimes boxing ppvs when i had showtime a few years ago, they had a policy of cancelling the ppv if the main event fell through
that doesn't sound fair to the undercard fighters to me their matches are contracted for the ppv too right?why punish THEM for something beyond their control?

 

[0neDisturbedSOB]

I was just watching a show on ESPN called "Boxing History" and they had classic Mike Tyson match ups. Say what you want about Tyson now, but back in his day he was a f**king animal. He went 37-0 (33 of which were by KO or TKO) before losing to Douglas in 1990 which is unheard of.

While I think boxing is slowly starting to fade into the shadow of MMA, I do enjoy watching classic boxing match ups because to be honest back then it was more about the sport and less about the $30 million per fight like it is now.

He may be crazy, but Tyson undoubtedly has to be listed as one of the all time best to ever step inside the ring.

 

[Scooter]

I was just watching a show on ESPN called "Boxing History" and they had classic Mike Tyson match ups. Say what you want about Tyson now, but back in his day he was a f**king animal. He went 37-0 (33 of which were by KO or TKO) before losing to Douglas in 1990 which is unheard of.

While I think boxing is slowly starting to fade into the shadow of MMA, I do enjoy watching classic boxing match ups because to be honest back then it was more about the sport and less about the $30 million per fight like it is now.

He may be crazy, but Tyson undoubtedly has to be listed as one of the all time best to ever step inside the ring.

A young Tyson was fun to watch, no doubt about it. Great power, terrific handspeed, and that peek-a-boo stance and upper body movement that made him so hard to hit. "Iron" Mike was a fearsome boxer in the late eighties, and that fear - the kind that paralyzed his opponents and took the fight right out of them before the opening bell had even rung - was his most effective tool.

However, when he finally faced a guy who truly wasn't afraid of losing, a guy who was fighting not merely to survive, but to win, the "Baddest Man on the Planet" found himself on the losing end of a 42:1 upset - courtesy of Buster Douglas, the wasted potential one-hit wonder.

It could be argued that Tyson was all hype, a flash in the pan who looked great dropping bums and no-hopes, but got his ass handed to him whenever he stepped up in competition and faced the true greats of his era (namely, Evander Holyfield and Lennox Lewis). Before losing to Douglas, Tyson's best wins were a blown up light-heavyweight in Michael Spinks (a good win, but expected, and hardly great) and the great Larry Holmes, who, although a legendary heavyweight, was lured out of retirement with a fat paycheck at almost 40 years of age (a young, in-shape Holmes takes that fight easy).

Outside of the ring, Tyson's headcase antics garnered him more lasting fame than his in-ring exploits. He was a drug-abusing sexual predator, a punk who ultimately carried that psychotic imbalance with him into the ring, getting himself disqualified for mauling Evander Holyfield in their infamous rematch. Some respect for the sport that act was. And make no mistake, professional boxing in Tyson's era was just as much about money as it is now. Tyson himself made more than 300 million dollars over the course of his career, and, after he had pissed it all away, was forced back into the ring late in his career, again fighting nobodies (although, in an ironic reversal, he would be the one getting knocked out this time around) for whatever last bits of money that could be dredged from depths of the popularity of his name.

But it could also be said that their were other sides to Tyson, that circumstances in his life conspired against him and left a gentle heart grossly misunderstood. Someone once said, and I forget who, that Mike Tyson was simultaneously smarter and dumber than we'll ever know. I think he was a punk, but it's probably best to leave it be.

Now, in terms of the boxing greats (boxing fans generally love such lists), were does "Iron" Mike rank? Well, leaving the pound-for-pound discussion aside (a ranking that disregards weight classes in favor of outright skill or ability when comparing fighters) - a discussion into which the name "Tyson" probably doesn't enter for the first 100 names or so - the greatest heavyweights are generally considered to be guys like Muhammad Ali, Joe Louis, George Foreman, Larry Holmes, etc. Tyson, despite being the youngest heavyweight champion to date (edging out the perpetually gutsy Floyd Patterson by a matter of months), doesn't crack the top 10. Nor the top 15. The argument could be made for his position within the top 20, but I think a ranking like that that based more on his great unseen potential (if said unfulfilled potential did in fact exist, a prospect of which I"m personally not so sure) than his actual accomplishments. Ultimately, I'd say the "Baddest Man on the Planet", although talented for a brief period, under the right supervision (he could do very little for himself), was more hype than not.

 

[0neDisturbedSOB]

Hmmm...I'll have to think about that one.

 

[0neDisturbedSOB]

I agree with most of what you said, however I wouldn't consider Tyson to be all hype. I don't care who you are, or how hyped you are a record of 37-0 with 33 KO's is impressive by any standards. I also wouldn't consider most of his opponents as cans as Tyson had to start fighting the lesser known opponents just like anyone else. One could say that his first 10 wins might have been against cans, but climbing to a record of 37-0 in any combat sport is almost unheard of.

Tyson's loss to Douglass was arguably one of the most shocking moments in sports history, and could be considered as one of the top 5 biggest upsets in boxing history. I think you are right that Tyson wasn't up against an opponent looking to make a name for themselves either by beating Tyson or at the very least lasting more than one round with him. He was up against an opponent that most people thought was WAY past his prime and washed up...thus he faced the most dangerous type of opponent, an underdog with nothing to lose.

Tyson's antics outside of the ring definitely brought him down in most people's opinions, but I don't think it's fair to base his legacy in the ring on the things he's done outside. Yeah he went to jail, and yeah he's said a lot of stupid things (which entertain the hell out of me), but Tyson's legacy as a boxer is cemented if not by the fact that he STILL remains the youngest Heavyweight champion of all time. He was also the first boxer to capture all 3 major Heavyweight titles thus becoming the true undisputed champion of his time.

In terms of who was the greatest of all time, I personally would put "Sugar" Ray Robinson (175-19-6 with 110 KO's) at the top of that list even ahead of Ali. Again you have a case of an AMAZING athlete who did his fair share of stupid things outside of the ring, and died penniless, but that (much like Tyson) shouldn't even weigh in on the legacy he leaves in the boxing world.

 

[Nightmare]

Floyd gonna knock out big show at wrestlemania.


Is the guy klitchko is fighting this weekend any good?

 

[Bill]

I think that the downfall of Mike Tyson began when Cus D'Amato died. Cus took Tyson and kept him away from the bad side of the business and of life. Once D'Amato died and Kevin Rooney, who knew D'Amato methods of training a boxer of Tyson' stature to be a successful heavyweight, was fired, it was only a matter of time until the pressure of being on top and the lack of sound training caught up to him.

I think Tyson needed the supervision and fatherly support of D'Amato, when he lost that, he lost himself. If he had lived longer, we might have seen a different Mike Tyson.

 

[0neDisturbedSOB]

I completely agree with that. D'Amato helped Tyson channel whatever "inner demons" he might have had into a skill that was second to none. I know Tyson considered D'Amato to be a surrogate father and when he died it's obvious that Tyson was left with no one to help guide him. Tyson's no idiot though (yes I know how that sounds) it's his own fault for getting into the trouble he did and not seeking out better management. If he were truly serious about becoming the absolute best, and continuing on in a manor that D'Amato would have been proud of, he would have sought out a new mentor. Instead he fell into the same trap a lot of other athletes do....they buy into their own hype and get caught in a downward spiral that threatens to taint their legacy in the sport.

Having said that, Tyson was a beast back in his day and to this day holds records that have yet to be broken. That has to say something for him.

 

[Scooter]

Floyd gonna knock out big show at wrestlemania.


Is the guy klitchko is fighting this weekend any good?

Wladimir Klitschko, though possessing a career marred by a few unfortunate losses, is a supremely talented heavyweight. He's tall (6'6" or so), fit (240 poounds of muscle), very technically sound, surprisingly quick (of both hand and foot) for a guy his size, and is one of the better punchers the heavyweight division has ever seen (top 5 all time jab, top 5 all time straight right, top 10 all time all-around power). He hasn't really lost so much as a round in the last two or three years, and is the favorite going in to tommorow night's fight.

His opponent, Sultan Ibragimov, while not a exactly a known name, is a cagey southpaw with a somewhat doughy physique that masks surprising quickness and agiklity. Undefeated, no pushover, but not great.

Wlad should knock him out in the mid-to-late rounds.

 

[Scooter]

I agree with most of what you said, however I wouldn't consider Tyson to be all hype. I don't care who you are, or how hyped you are a record of 37-0 with 33 KO's is impressive by any standards. I also wouldn't consider most of his opponents as cans as Tyson had to start fighting the lesser known opponents just like anyone else. One could say that his first 10 wins might have been against cans, but climbing to a record of 37-0 in any combat sport is almost unheard of.

Like I said, I don't consider him all hype, just more hype than greatness. But he did have some major talent. A lot is made of his power, but the way he set up those knockouts - with great body movement and evasiveness on the inside, and shockingly fast hands for a heavyweight, especially when he was throwing short, compact inside combos - was great boxing. He also, despite almost always being the smaller man (Mike was only about 5'11"), had terrific timing that allowed him to consistently out-jab longer-armed opponents.

But it was more than just his first 10 opponents who were nobodies. In fairness to Tyson, he fought whoever was around (it was a dry era for heavyweights), but Tony Tubbs? Tony Tucker? They were okay fighters, but, ultimately, towards the bottom-end of okay. Trevor Berbick was just a crazy old man whose greatest feat was beating up an old, heavily brain-damaged Muhammad Ali.

Still, Tyson beat them. He also beat Larry Holmes, one of the greatest heavy's ever. That's a great name to have on your resume, but, like I said in my first post, Holmes was old and inactive. Tyson was a good fighter, but when he stepped up in competion to fight the true greats of his era, he got slapped down.

Tyson's loss to Douglass was arguably one of the most shocking moments in sports history, and could be considered as one of the top 5 biggest upsets in boxing history. I think you are right that Tyson wasn't up against an opponent looking to make a name for themselves either by beating Tyson or at the very least lasting more than one round with him. He was up against an opponent that most people thought was WAY past his prime and washed up...thus he faced the most dangerous type of opponent, an underdog with nothing to lose.

Yep, Buster fought the fight of his life that night, and "exposed", to a degree, the "invincible" Mike Tyson.

Tyson's antics outside of the ring definitely brought him down in most people's opinions, but I don't think it's fair to base his legacy in the ring on the things he's done outside. Yeah he went to jail, and yeah he's said a lot of stupid things (which entertain the hell out of me), but Tyson's legacy as a boxer is cemented if not by the fact that he STILL remains the youngest Heavyweight champion of all time. He was also the first boxer to capture all 3 major Heavyweight titles thus becoming the true undisputed champion of his time.

Entertaining indeed.

In terms of who was the greatest of all time, I personally would put "Sugar" Ray Robinson (175-19-6 with 110 KO's) at the top of that list even ahead of Ali. Again you have a case of an AMAZING athlete who did his fair share of stupid things outside of the ring, and died penniless, but that (much like Tyson) shouldn't even weigh in on the legacy he leaves in the boxing world.

Well, now you're talking about the general consensus, pound-for-pound, greatest of all time, Sugar Ray Robinson. In my original post, I side-stepped that list on the premise Tyson doesn't even make the top 75 or so, and instead focused solely on heavyweights (Robinson, obviously, was at his best sa welterweight, some 53 pounds shy of heavy), placing Mike somewhere in the top 20.

And I hear what you're saying about the distinction between a boxer's in-ring accomplishments and his out-of-ring exploits, but we can't wholly separate the two. For a long portion of American history in the 20th century, boxing was this country's most popular sport, in some eras by a wide margin (in years during which Yankee stadium would be half-empty for home games, two popular fighters could draw max-capacity for even non-title bouts). And, for the most part, the Heavyweight Champ was the most recognizeable athlete on the planet (in the 20's and 30's, for example champs like Max Baer would make more in one bout than Babe Ruth would in 10 seasons). And, for an endeavor, like boxing, that is equal parts sport and entertainment, fighter's personas and activities greatly impact the drama of the fights.

Would Jack Johnson be considered as great as he was were it not for the his flagrant opposition to racism and the oppression of blacks? Would Joe Louis be the same Joe Louis had he fought only for the heavyweight championship, and not also for the symbolic victory of the free world over Nazi domination? And would the Greatest of All Time, Muhammad Ali, be the most famous and beloved athlete of the last 100 years if hadn't completely transcended the sport the way he did? It all has to be taken into account when weighing the merits of these fighters over the years, especially when the character is as popular, outrageous, scandalous, and imfamous as Mike Tyson.

 

[0neDisturbedSOB]

I think you hit the nail on the head by calling Tyson "infamous." I agree that his 37 consecutive victories were made up primarily of lesser known, or past their prime boxers, but that can also be chalked up to the fact that Tyson was willing to fight ANYONE they put in front of him, which by today's standards is almost non-existent.

I will say that boxing started to decline right around the time Tyson's career did. Even nowadays I can't sit through most boxing match ups because it's either all about the money (Mayweather vs. De La Hoya) or the hype prior to the match is better than the actual match itself. I think that's why I enjoy watching the "boxing history" shows on ESPN like the one I saw about Tyson. Watching bouts like that and boxers like Tyson really remind you of what the sport used to be like. You'd get guys in there like Ali, or Tyson who would just dominate their division and it would make you excited to see what they'd do next. Now, I don't really care anymore because it's obvious most people who step into that ring are looking for that big paycheck.

When it comes to the greatest of all time I would once again have to go with "Sugar" Ray Robinson as the greatest boxer to ever step foot inside the boxing ring. He's the man people like Ali and Leonard consider to be the greatest, and anyone who's ever read about his story would be hard to argue that fact.

To be quite honest with you, I think it's only a matter of time before boxing is completely overshadowed by MMA. Even a lot of the boxers see it coming which is why they talk so much s**t on MMA fighters....it's trying to build that buzz so people care about their next fight.

 

[E. Nygma]

I think you hit the nail on the head by calling Tyson "infamous." I agree that his 37 consecutive victories were made up primarily of lesser known, or past their prime boxers, but that can also be chalked up to the fact that Tyson was willing to fight ANYONE they put in front of him, which by today's standards is almost non-existent.

I will say that boxing started to decline right around the time Tyson's career did. Even nowadays I can't sit through most boxing match ups because it's either all about the money (Mayweather vs. De La Hoya) or the hype prior to the match is better than the actual match itself. I think that's why I enjoy watching the "boxing history" shows on ESPN like the one I saw about Tyson. Watching bouts like that and boxers like Tyson really remind you of what the sport used to be like. You'd get guys in there like Ali, or Tyson who would just dominate their division and it would make you excited to see what they'd do next. Now, I don't really care anymore because it's obvious most people who step into that ring are looking for that big paycheck.

When it comes to the greatest of all time I would once again have to go with "Sugar" Ray Robinson as the greatest boxer to ever step foot inside the boxing ring. He's the man people like Ali and Leonard consider to be the greatest, and anyone who's ever read about his story would be hard to argue that fact.

To be quite honest with you, I think it's only a matter of time before boxing is completely overshadowed by MMA. Even a lot of the boxers see it coming which is why they talk so much s**t on MMA fighters....it's trying to build that buzz so people care about their next fight.

At least the Heavyweight division

I know what you mean when you say you cant watch because the sport is so dominated by money and not competition or desire. But at least the fights in the middleweight division are entertaining, and there are talented fighters in it. The Heavyweight division is as barren as the Gobi Desert.

 

[3dman27]

who won last nights fight? i couldn't afford the ppv

 

[Scooter]

It wasn't Pay-Per-View. Klitschko won a fairly uneventful, easy (easy!) decision.

 

[0neDisturbedSOB]

At least the Heavyweight division

I know what you mean when you say you cant watch because the sport is so dominated by money and not competition or desire. But at least the fights in the middleweight division are entertaining, and there are talented fighters in it. The Heavyweight division is as barren as the Gobi Desert.

Yeah I can still enjoy a few of the lower weight fights. The Heavyweight division is just riddled with money hungry athletes that are simply out to get paid. The lower weight divisions are actually made up of hungry boxers that are looking to make a name for themselves.

 

[3dman27]

It wasn't Pay-Per-View. Klitschko won a fairly uneventful, easy (easy!) decision.

ok thanks scooter

 

[Badger]

5 months and no posts, what has happened to the sweet science.

 

[Attila]

Boxing in 2008 in 90% fixed. Hardly any good fights left anymore, the old days were better, they really fought. Now, Ufc is better, followed by WWf, Football, soccer, ladies figure skating, dodgeball, and then boxing.

huh???

Vasquez Marquez 1
Vasquez Marquez 2
Vasquez Marquez 3
Pavlik vs Taylor 1
Pavlik vs Taylor 2
Casamayor vs Katsidis
Pac vs Jmm 2
Diaz vs Cambell
Holt vs Torres 2
Solis vs Donair


and thats just the REAL badass fights.... i could add Kirklands spectacular knockouts.... and other decent fights like Margarito vs Cintron 2....

and on deck are some real exciting, interesting, and significant matchups in Cotto vs Margarito, Judah vs Clottey, Pavlik vs Hopkins, Pac vs Hatton perhaps, Vitali vs Peter... Wlad trying to clean up heavyweights, undisputed cruiser champ Haye moving up and making his heavyweight debute, damn... i could go on and on..

then you have badass exciting young prospects lighting things up like
Gamboa
Kirkland
Valero
Angulo

Guys in their prime on the verge of greatness
Cotto
Pavlik
Pac


you just dont know boxing if your saying **** like that... just cuz YOU dont know the sport doesnt mean its not as good anymore.

not trying to be rude but its just the truth and i encounter that kind of talk all the time... and its always from people who are just spouting off at the mouth without having any substance behind it.

 

[Iron_Stark]

If I knew about this thread I would've been posting on it.

 

[Attila]

If I knew about this thread I would've been posting on it.

im going to be in this baby constantly lol... videos, pics, updates, ect... lol.

just curious m'man... you say you were rooting for marg? are you a fan or just rooting for him in this fight against cotto?

 

[Iron_Stark]

im going to be in this baby constantly lol... videos, pics, updates, ect... lol.

just curious m'man... you say you were rooting for marg? are you a fan or just rooting for him in this fight against cotto?

Fan of his, I normally root for Cotto, except for this fight.