The Official Boxing Thread!!!

[Docker2.0]

Actually Paq may have got cut to if they drug tested.......just playing devil's advocate here.

 

[Doc Samson]

Actually Paq may have got cut to if they drug tested.......just playing devil's advocate here.

Don't even think of trying to have a conversation about anything negative in regards to Manny Pacquaio with Iron Stark.

Your right on with one of your points though, it has nothing to do with Manny, Mayweather has disdain for Arum that runs extremely deep, as it should. The man was robbing him blind for years (and Pacquaio as we speak) so now, Floyd's in the position to make him a boatload of money?

He's been trying to give Manny advice, in a very abstract, round about way, to get new management but simply put, he doesn't want to line Arum's pockets anymore than he has to, & I wouldn't want to do it either, but eventually, he will. And along the way, put Manny in his place

 

[Docker2.0]

Agreed! And I know I'm going to sound like a Mayweather supporter but I don't see how Manny could beat Mayweather, his defense is just that good.

 

[Doc Samson]

Agreed! And I know I'm going to sound like a Mayweather supporter but I don't see how Manny could beat Mayweather, his defense is just that good.

It's not unfounded support lol, it's truth, you shouldn't need to qualify your opinion. Contrary to some beliefs, I like Manny too, I'm just not going to sit here and act like he's better if I don't believe it to be true. He's a tremendous fighter, Floyd is a legendary boxer, and that's the difference

 

[Raiden]

It's not unfounded support lol, it's truth, you shouldn't need to qualify your opinion. Contrary to some beliefs, I like Manny too, I'm just not going to sit here and act like he's better if I don't believe it to be true. He's a tremendous fighter, Floyd is a legendary boxer, and that's the difference

Well, we will never know if this is the truth or not if these two never fight each other, and from the look of it, we never will.

 

[Doc Samson]

Well, we will never know if this is the truth or not if these two never fight each other, and from the look of it, we never will.

I guess you can say that, but I'm still astonished people want to see this so bad, it's utterly lost on me how somebody like Floyd Mayweather, who by the way, Bob Arum himself loved to compare to Sugar Ray Leonard back when he was robbing him blind, somehow winds up in the same class as Pacquiao? It is beyond me. It really is. I'm on record, and I'll keep saying, that this will be, if it happens, the most overhyped, underwhelming (for you "Pac-man" supporters anyway) fight in boxing history. And boxing's history is a very sordid one indeed...

 

[Docker2.0]

Well, I think it'll go 12 rounds with Mayweather winning convincingly. I've heard Skip Bayless say if they fought, Manny would win in 4-6 rounds, no freakin way that happens. The way May changes styles when he gets focused is ridiculous! He made Ortiz, who is very similiar to Manny, look like an amateur! He also did the same to JMM and Shane Mosley(after he woke up)so I just can't see May losing. I know a lot of people don't like him because of his "Money Mayweather" maniker but the dude is a skilled fighter, while I honestly think Manny is a glorified brawler. One thing I noticed about Manny, is that when he's hurt, he tries to punch his way out, which is why he struggled so badly with JMM. And he can say WTF he wants to but JMM hurt him numerous times in that fight.

 

[Iron_Stark]

lmao, typical Mayweather fan responses, "Mayweather shouldn't fight him because he'd win anyway"

They go along with the "Mayweather isn't getting enough money for this fight so it doesn't make and sence" and "well this fighter is too big/too small for Mayweather so he shouldn't fight him"

I love how Mayweather fans all of a sudden become his nutritionist, accountants, managers, promoters, etc.

That's why fights get made and fighters fight. And that's why there's this thing called the "upset". If this fight was so easy for Floyd this nut up and get in the ring and shut everyone up.

If Mayweather had a fraction of courage and balls that guys like Erik Morales and Holyfield had to go along with his talents, he'd go down as arguably the greatest boxer in history, the likes of Robinson, but instead, he'll probably be forgotten in coming years exept as a "what could have been" and only be remembered as the spoiled, insecure, man-child.

 

[Docker2.0]

Your love of Paq and hate of Mayweather is beyond normal and dare I say fanboyish. Because someone thinks someone is a great fighter does not mean they like them. I think mayweather is arrogant, brash, and a total a-hole. But I also think he's a great fighter and a smart business manager who's promoting himself. You seem to only buy what Arum is saying which is ironic when Arum use to manage May so how's he now a coward or whatever when he was terrific when he managed him? You say May hasn't fought anyone but who the freak has Paq fought the last 3 years that May has that's good? You say the Arum thing is an excuse but hello, Paq's last 5 fight have brought in over $100M, but yet his worth is only$26M and word is he's broke which is why he won't stop boxing for the next couple of years despite his political dreams the next couple of years. So yeah we are all biased towards May and hate Paq while you are the only one who can see what's really going on.

 

[Doc Samson]

If Mayweather had a fraction of courage and balls that guys like Erik Morales and Holyfield had to go along with his talents, he'd go down as arguably the greatest boxer in history, the likes of Robinson, but instead, he'll probably be forgotten in coming years exept as a "what could have been" and only be remembered as the spoiled, insecure, man-child.

This is my main issue with you, to insinuate any professional boxer doesn't have courage is just so disrespectful on so many levels it's insane. Manny Pacquiao isn't some unstoppable monster lol, it's not like he's Mike Tyson in the late 80s, or George Foreman in his youth. There's nothing more courageous about fighting Manny as opposed to anybody else in Floyd's career. After Floyd got away from his Father & Bob Arum, he worked his way into being a PPV draw with his new found villain role. And rightfully so, for someone who until recently had no control over his life, he calls his own shots now. He's never been afraid to fight anybody, he's just going to fight whoever he feels like it, he's earned the right to do so.

Clearly, Floyd has deep rooted issues with Bob Arum, and has way before Manny ever came on the scene as some sort of contender. If you found out your boss was stealing from you, would you want to do business with him down the road? Besides that, you've already admitted that even if he knocked out Pacquiao, you still wouldn't consider him an all-time great, so your mind's already made up. What difference should it make to you if they fight or not?

 

[Raiden]

I don't know if Pacman is better than Mayweather and vice versa, but I do know that these two are considered to be the top boxers in the world today, and unless they actually fight in the ring, there will always be discussions and controversies on who is the better fighter. Mohammad Ali actually lost to Joe Frazier in the first fight, and if they never fought one could say that Frazier was the better fighter. But Ali went on to defeat Frazier the next two fights and established himself as the greatest boxer ever lived. If Ali and Frazier had to settle in the ring on who is better, shouldn't the same be true for Pacman and Mayweather?

 

[Docker2.0]

I agree they both should fight but I think its more to it than just to say Mayweather is scared or he hasn't fought anyone when Paq has fought almost the exact same people. It makes no sense!

 

[DoomsdayApex]

If MMA can do Hendo-Rampage for the Undisputed World LHW title, Fedor-Cro Cop for the HW title, Fedor-Nogueira in the Grand Prix for the HW title, Wanderlei-Liddell, Rampage-Liddell 2x, Shogun-Machida II, Aoki-Melendez, Aldo-Florian for the FW title, Huerta-Alvarez, Edgar-Maynard 3x for the LW title, GSP-Fitch for WW title, Fedor-Arlovski for the HW title, etc then Boxing can surely do Pacman-Mayweather.

There are no excuses.

 

[Iron_Stark]

This is my main issue with you, to insinuate any professional boxer doesn't have courage is just so disrespectful on so many levels it's insane. Manny Pacquiao isn't some unstoppable monster lol, it's not like he's Mike Tyson in the late 80s, or George Foreman in his youth. There's nothing more courageous about fighting Manny as opposed to anybody else in Floyd's career. After Floyd got away from his Father & Bob Arum, he worked his way into being a PPV draw with his new found villain role. And rightfully so, for someone who until recently had no control over his life, he calls his own shots now. He's never been afraid to fight anybody, he's just going to fight whoever he feels like it, he's earned the right to do so.

Clearly, Floyd has deep rooted issues with Bob Arum, and has way before Manny ever came on the scene as some sort of contender. If you found out your boss was stealing from you, would you want to do business with him down the road? Besides that, you've already admitted that even if he knocked out Pacquiao, you still wouldn't consider him an all-time great, so your mind's already made up. What difference should it make to you if they fight or not?

I never said Paquiao was some unstoppable force, quote me where I said that. I can find a quote where you said Paq isn't in the same class as Mayweather and pretty much isn't worth seeing.

Well where has Mayweather shown courage in the ring? His boring decision wins? The 12th round in the first fight between Morales/Paquiao, when Morales turned south paw and went to war with Paq was more exciting than the 40-whatever fights Mayweather has ever had. And Morales did it for fun and to excite the crowd. When has Mayweather ever put on a show like that? No, he coasts to decision wins and then claims that was exciting and that he's the greatest ever.

Well, if he's not afraid to fight anyone, then why didn't he fight Margarito when Marg publicly called him out with a camera filming it? Why didn't he ever fight Cotto as well? Tszyu, Williams, a younger Delahoya and Mosley? Why did he fight tomato cans for 4 years after his loss to Castillo and then the rematch?

Give me a break, that undefeated record doesn't mean **** if you constantly cherry pick your opponents.

I agree they both should fight but I think its more to it than just to say Mayweather is scared or he hasn't fought anyone when Paq has fought almost the exact same people. It makes no sense!

Mayweather has been doing it longer.

Plus Paq went 4-1-1 with this era's greatest Mexican fighters, Mayweather has gone 1-0 with them.

Beating Cotto and Margarito is better than beating, Ortiz and Baldomir.

Manny beat Delahoya, Hatton and Mosley waaay better than Mayweather

Want me to keep going?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

The Pacman-Mayweather saga is almost identical to the Fedor-Cro Cop one in 05. Only, Fedor didn't avoid Cro Cop for 2-3 years.

[YT]N78SuVHM9CM[/YT]

The fight lived up to its expectations. Hardcore fans still label it as the greatest MMA fight in history.

So it astonishes me that Boxing refuses to give us a memorable and historic bout between the two best P4P Boxers on the planet like it's done with ease in the past.

 

[Docker2.0]

I'll give u Cotto and raise you an Ortiz. Other than that, its debatable on who beat their opponents better because their styles are way different. I can't blame Mayweather for not fighting Margarito because he's a known cheat. Again, he has his reasons but its funny how Paq is doing the same thing but for some reason you can't see it.

 

[Doc Samson]

I never said Paquiao was some unstoppable force, quote me where I said that. I can find a quote where you said Paq isn't in the same class as Mayweather and pretty much isn't worth seeing.

And he's not, so what's your point?

Well where has Mayweather shown courage in the ring? His boring decision wins? The 12th round in the first fight between Morales/Paquiao, when Morales turned south paw and went to war with Paq was more exciting than the 40-whatever fights Mayweather has ever had. And Morales did it for fun and to excite the crowd. When has Mayweather ever put on a show like that? No, he coasts to decision wins and then claims that was exciting and that he's the greatest ever.

Hard to put on a show when people talk ***** all the way up until fight day and then refuse to engage. Ricky Hatton was the last guy who really tried to press the issue and we saw what happened. It's called BOXING, not fighting, not brawling, not none of that. It's a sport of technical skill and that's what Floyd uses to beat people.

But if you really want to compare, just look at his fights with Demarcus Corley or Manny Augustus (Burton then). There's no way you actually saw either one of those fights saying what you just said.

See, what you keep failing to realize is Floyd was an aggressive fighter when he was trying to get these guys in the ring you keep bringing up (more on that in a second) he wasn't just relying on defense, but it didn't matter. He still couldn't get a big name fight until he disrespected Gatti & adopted the villain role.

Well, if he's not afraid to fight anyone, then why didn't he fight Margarito when Marg publicly called him out with a camera filming it? Why didn't he ever fight Cotto as well? Tszyu, Williams, a younger Delahoya and Mosley? Why did he fight tomato cans for 4 years after his loss to Castillo and then the rematch?

How many times do I have to tell you that half of those people your talking about, first of all aren't some legendary challenges you make them out to be, and secondly, he called out Tszyu, De La Hoya & Mosley when they were all young and in their prime AND NONE OF THEM WANTED TO FIGHT! LOL, this is documented truth, nobody saw him as a PPV draw, so they didn't want anything to do with him, it's the main reason he is the way he is now in regards to making fights.

- Marquez was ranked 3RD welterweight in the world when Floyd fought him, he didn't rank him that, the boxing public did, and he dismantled him.

- Hatton was undefeated when Floyd fought him, nobody knew what he was made of, now they discredit him after the fact

- Mosley was said to be coming off the best fight of his career after beating up Margarito (who up until that point was using loaded gloves, guess that doesn't count for nothing) it wasn't until Floyd outclasses him that people say he's over the hill and done.

- De La Hoya weighed over 160 lbs for their "welterweight" fight, chose the Reyes gloves which everyone knows benefits big punchers, got them to fight in a smaller ring to help cut off Floyd's movement, and still got his ass kicked.

- Ortiz is the youngest fighter either one of them has fought in about 5 years, and when he started getting handled he headbutted because he couldn't do anything else. Went to sleep for that.

You keep trying to paint this picture of heroic accomplishment with Cotto or Margarito, they could barely move when Pacquiao fought them, please! They were beaten half to death before Manny ever stepped in the ring with them, what is it proving?

Your talking about tomato cans and Pacquiao's been fighting the same people for just as long lmao, are you serious? He fought Mosley afterwards (who was calling him out way more than he was calling out Floyd before they had their fight, and Manny wouldn't even negotiate with him), Hatton after he got exposed, De La Hoya WAAAAY past his prime, a beat to death Cotto & Margarito, Clottey who thew like 2 punches the whole fight, he should've lost twice to Marquez, he lost to Morales, want me to keep going?

 

[Docker2.0]

Preach Doc!


And for the record, I'm no Mayweather supporter(though I do think he's a great fighter)but its the freaking hypocrisy that irks me when people talk about May ducking and Paq fighting the best their is when Paq basically fights everyone May fights after they are washed up. Again, I can guarantee you the Sergio fight nor will Paq fight Victor Cruz. Why you ask? Because Arum is protecting his cash cow and doesn't want him to lose. And its the EXACT same thing people are accusing Mayweather of but yet turn a blind eye to Paq.

 

[Iron_Stark]

And he's not, so what's your point?



Hard to put on a show when people talk ***** all the way up until fight day and then refuse to engage. Ricky Hatton was the last guy who really tried to press the issue and we saw what happened. It's called BOXING, not fighting, not brawling, not none of that. It's a sport of technical skill and that's what Floyd uses to beat people.

But if you really want to compare, just look at his fights with Demarcus Corley or Manny Augustus (Burton then). There's no way you actually saw either one of those fights saying what you just said.

See, what you keep failing to realize is Floyd was an aggressive fighter when he was trying to get these guys in the ring you keep bringing up (more on that in a second) he wasn't just relying on defense, but it didn't matter. He still couldn't get a big name fight until he disrespected Gatti & adopted the villain role.



How many times do I have to tell you that half of those people your talking about, first of all aren't some legendary challenges you make them out to be, and secondly, he called out Tszyu, De La Hoya & Mosley when they were all young and in their prime AND NONE OF THEM WANTED TO FIGHT! LOL, this is documented truth, nobody saw him as a PPV draw, so they didn't want anything to do with him, it's the main reason he is the way he is now in regards to making fights.

- Marquez was ranked 3RD welterweight in the world when Floyd fought him, he didn't rank him that, the boxing public did, and he dismantled him.

- Hatton was undefeated when Floyd fought him, nobody knew what he was made of, now they discredit him after the fact

- Mosley was said to be coming off the best fight of his career after beating up Margarito (who up until that point was using loaded gloves, guess that doesn't count for nothing) it wasn't until Floyd outclasses him that people say he's over the hill and done.

- De La Hoya weighed over 160 lbs for their "welterweight" fight, chose the Reyes gloves which everyone knows benefits big punchers, got them to fight in a smaller ring to help cut off Floyd's movement, and still got his ass kicked.

- Ortiz is the youngest fighter either one of them has fought in about 5 years, and when he started getting handled he headbutted because he couldn't do anything else. Went to sleep for that.

You keep trying to paint this picture of heroic accomplishment with Cotto or Margarito, they could barely move when Pacquiao fought them, please! They were beaten half to death before Manny ever stepped in the ring with them, what is it proving?

Your talking about tomato cans and Pacquiao's been fighting the same people for just as long lmao, are you serious? He fought Mosley afterwards (who was calling him out way more than he was calling out Floyd before they had their fight, and Manny wouldn't even negotiate with him), Hatton after he got exposed, De La Hoya WAAAAY past his prime, a beat to death Cotto & Margarito, Clottey who thew like 2 punches the whole fight, he should've lost twice to Marquez, he lost to Morales, want me to keep going?

Corley and Burton were bums, ofcourse he'd look exciting against them.

Hatton looked like **** at 147, look at the Urango fight. and then it took Floyd up until the late rounds to land that lucky KO shot. Manny annihilated Hatton at his best weight. And it wasn't like Mayweather had ruined Hatton like, nor was he some shot fighter when Manny KO'd him.

Mosely, still gave Floyd trouble early on, and Floyd chose to play it safe for most of the fight. Manny knocked down Mosely and had him scared ****less for most of the fight.

It was hardly an ass kicking that Floyd gave Delahoya, a lot of people thought Oscar won, including one judge. An ass kicking is what Manny did to him.

You talk about Mosley being a left over for Manny, yet forget to mention Manny fought Marquez twice before Floyd did and officially beat him once.

Ortiz is a mental midget, all he ever accomplished is beating that over-rated Berto. The Ortiz win is no better than the Judah win. They mean squat. Even then it took a sucker punch to beat Ortiz.

And yes it is an accomplishment to beat Cotto and Margarito, especially the way he did. How did Floyd beat them? Oh wait, they never fought.

I'll give u Cotto and raise you an Ortiz. Other than that, its debatable on who beat their opponents better because their styles are way different. I can't blame Mayweather for not fighting Margarito because he's a known cheat. Again, he has his reasons but its funny how Paq is doing the same thing but for some reason you can't see it.

Give me a break, Cotto and Margarito at this stage would brutalize Ortiz.

And Floyd ducked Margarito years before the Mosley fight.

 

[Docker2.0]

Probably because he's a known cheat, which is why Cotto wants the rematch. I'll give you Cotto as the one guy that Paq has fought that is good but Mosley, Margerito, Hatton, and even JMM.... May has fought 3 of the 4 and fought a young champion in his 20's which I guarantee you Paq won't do. Again, they've basically fought the same fighters and Paq even fought them after May beat them so why is it ok for Manny to do it but not May? I'm not getting your point! They are both ducks as far as I can see.

 

[Doc Samson]

Corley and Burton were bums, ofcourse he'd look exciting against them.

Hatton looked like **** at 147, look at the Urango fight. and then it took Floyd up until the late rounds to land that lucky KO shot. Manny annihilated Hatton at his best weight. And it wasn't like Mayweather had ruined Hatton like, nor was he some shot fighter when Manny KO'd him.

Mosely, still gave Floyd trouble early on, and Floyd chose to play it safe for most of the fight. Manny knocked down Mosely and had him scared ****less for most of the fight.

It was hardly an ass kicking that Floyd gave Delahoya, a lot of people thought Oscar won, including one judge. An ass kicking is what Manny did to him.

You talk about Mosley being a left over for Manny, yet forget to mention Manny fought Marquez twice before Floyd did and officially beat him once.

Ortiz is a mental midget, all he ever accomplished is beating that over-rated Berto. The Ortiz win is no better than the Judah win. They mean squat. Even then it took a sucker punch to beat Ortiz.

And yes it is an accomplishment to beat Cotto and Margarito, especially the way he did. How did Floyd beat them? Oh wait, they never fought.



Give me a break, Cotto and Margarito at this stage would brutalize Ortiz.

And Floyd ducked Margarito years before the Mosley fight.

Basically we're going around in circles for no reason, because your still the same guy who said this:

Well that was a one-sided ass kicking. I thought Mosley was going to take him out in the second when he had him hurt.

I don't think Paquiao beats Mayweather, I'd rather see Floyd go up to 154 and fight Paul Williams or Sergio Martinez instead or stay at '47 and fight Berto.

So you really don't even believe the stuff you've been saying lately anyway, you make a little more sense now lol

Probably because he's a known cheat, which is why Cotto wants the rematch. I'll give you Cotto as the one guy that Paq has fought that is good but Mosley, Margerito, Hatton, and even JMM.... May has fought 3 of the 4 and fought a young champion in his 20's which I guarantee you Paq won't do. Again, they've basically fought the same fighters and Paq even fought them after May beat them so why is it ok for Manny to do it but not May? I'm not getting your point! They are both ducks as far as I can see.

He has no point, he's been dancing around that for half of this thread

 

[Iron_Stark]

Basically we're going around in circles for no reason, because your still the same guy who said this:

So you really don't even believe the stuff you've been saying lately anyway, you make a little more sense now lol

He has no point, he's been dancing around that for half of this thread

No point? I think I've proved my point time and time again.

No one can still answer my original question of what opponents Mayweather has beaten that are better than Manny's opponents.

Sure Mayweather looks great boxing against bums, but this isn't dancing with the stars.

And yeah, if Mayweather would ever sack up and get into the ring with Manny, more than likely he'd win a boring 12 round decision with his safety first approach. No way would he ever get into a fire fight with Manny or even pull something off like Morales did.

Probably because he's a known cheat, which is why Cotto wants the rematch. I'll give you Cotto as the one guy that Paq has fought that is good but Mosley, Margerito, Hatton, and even JMM.... May has fought 3 of the 4 and fought a young champion in his 20's which I guarantee you Paq won't do. Again, they've basically fought the same fighters and Paq even fought them after May beat them so why is it ok for Manny to do it but not May? I'm not getting your point! They are both ducks as far as I can see.

He was a known cheat just until recently, quit acting like he's has that stigma all of his career, especially when he went up to Floyd with some cameras rolling years ago.

 

[Docker2.0]

Doc Samson, you were right when you spoke about Stark. This dude constantly bashes Mayweather but turns a COMPLETE bline eye when Manny does the same thing. You and I have given this dude example after example, fact after fact but yet the dude goes to sleep and starts his rant on Mayweather and completely ignores facts. I'm completely dumbfounded on fanboyism. There is absolutely no talking to dude.

 

[Doc Samson]

No point? I think I've proved my point time and time again.

No one can still answer my original question of what opponents Mayweather has beaten that are better than Manny's opponents.

It's been answered, ad nauseum

Sure Mayweather looks great boxing against bums, but this isn't dancing with the stars.

Just about everyone he's faced he's made look like a bum, regardless of their level of skill. It's why he's the best of this generation

And yeah, if Mayweather would ever sack up and get into the ring with Manny, more than likely he'd win a boring 12 round decision with his safety first approach. No way would he ever get into a fire fight with Manny or even pull something off like Morales did.

This is the exact reason I think Pacquiao loses decisively. I doubt he would even engage Floyd like he does everyone else, even if he's not smart enough to not do it, Freddie Roach would certainly try to tell him not to.

Manny, to date, hasn't fought an accomplished boxer who's just as athletic, if not more, than him. He was a bit faster than Marquez & Morales. Just like Floyd says, it's easy to say what you want to do in the fight, until it's time to do it. If Manny rushes in there and starts getting counterpunched, he will become hesitant, it's not even about speed but anticipation, Floyd sees the opening before it opens, it's really his greatest gift outside of defense.

And if Manny chooses to try and switch his style up just for this particular fight, he'll be a fish out of water trying to box with Mayweather as opposed to fighting him. Either way, it's a lose/lose situation and you know this

He was a known cheat just until recently, quit acting like he's has that stigma all of his career, especially when he went up to Floyd with some cameras rolling years ago.

You don't know how long he was doing that. If it wasn't for Brother Nazim, we still wouldn't know about it

Doc Samson, you were right when you spoke about Stark. This dude constantly bashes Mayweather but turns a COMPLETE bline eye when Manny does the same thing. You and I have given this dude example after example, fact after fact but yet the dude goes to sleep and starts his rant on Mayweather and completely ignores facts. I'm completely dumbfounded on fanboyism. There is absolutely no talking to dude.

Lol, at least he's somewhat entertaining

 

[The Game]

What a blatant robbery, Marquez won this fight, i'm so disgusted right now