Civil War The Official Captain America: Civil War News & Speculation Thread - Part 9

[Mike5575]

I never got why everyone is so obsessed with the strength levels in the movies when they're already inconsistent as hell. Remember everyone freaking out about Kurse catching Mjolnir?

Because it's fun for some fans to argue about just as much as it is to argue which hero would win in a fight.


Kurse didn't catch Mjolnir, he deflected it. And yeah, I thought it was kind of stupid, but oh well.

 

[MbJ]

He didn't catch it, he knocked it away hen Thor summoned itt:

That's not the point. The point is people argued endlessly about it for weeks. And then brought it up and argued about it AGAIN when AOU came out.

If the movies were just about raw power levels it wouldn't be a movie it'd be a game of Pokemon. Even in the comics, less powerful characters regularly manage to thwart or get a drop on the heavier hitters.

 

[Stevie2020]

This is MCUs chance to make Spidey the universal iconic fan favorite to everyone once again. I hope they make their version the best one yet.

I do have some faith in this with Marvel and Feige being involved, but with this being the second reboot in 10 years it may just be more of the same.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

That's not the point. The point is people argued endlessly about it for weeks. And then brought it up and argued about it AGAIN when AOU came out.

If the movies were just about raw power levels it wouldn't be a movie it'd be a game of Pokemon. Even in the comics, less powerful characters regularly manage to thwart or get a drop on the heavier hitters.

Yeah but really, Cap shouldn't stand a chance against Spiderman, Spidey is20 times stronger, faster and has his spider sense, if Cap beats him in CW there better be a damn good reason behind it.

 

[MyDudeSpidey]

It'd be pretty funny if they have Spidey win, though. This scrawny kid in spandex comes out of nowhere and just kicks Cap's ass.

 

[Lantern Venom]

The thing is though, he can't knock Ock out in that fight because he needs him conscious to find out where MJ is. So he had to pull his punches.

Plus Spiderman 2.1 proved a theory me and many others suspected for a while to be true. The arms were keeping Ock conscious. They were fused to his spine and brain after all.


Either way, Spiderman is much stronger than Cap, always has been, always will be. In the comics, movies, cartoons, you name it, he has shown feats of strength much bigger and better than anything Cap has ever done.

I don't see any evidence of Spidey pulling his punches. That's comic book fans injecting previous conceptions of the character into what they're seeing rather than what the filmmakers were presenting. Even taking the arms stimulating Ock's brain into account, he should have been a bruised, bloodied, toothless, jaw-broken mess if Peter had the kind of strength that would take out a super soldier like Cap with one punch.

I'm not debating that Spider-man is stronger than Cap, only that he wouldn't be able to defeat him easily. Cap has always been a tactical master and able to extend fights or stalemate opponents who are much more powerful than him. Cap took two energy blasts from Ultron and a naked shot to the ribs in AOU. Yet he wasn't knocked out or debilitated to the point where he couldn't fight. If you're expecting the MCU Spider-man to be introduced as even stronger than Ultron, you're going to be disappointed.

This is MCUs chance to make Spidey the universal iconic fan favorite to everyone once again. I hope they make their version the best one yet.

He's still Marvel's flagship character and always will be. Historically, he's got far more notoriety than any of the Avengers on their own. The MCU has closed the gap with Cap, Thor, Iron Man, and Hulk, but I doubt anyone working at Marvel would say any name other than Spider-man if asked who was the centerpiece of their fictional universe.

That's not the point. The point is people argued endlessly about it for weeks. And then brought it up and argued about it AGAIN when AOU came out.

If the movies were just about raw power levels it wouldn't be a movie it'd be a game of Pokemon. Even in the comics, less powerful characters regularly manage to thwart or get a drop on the heavier hitters.

Case in point: Hawkeye immobilized Scarlet Witch. Before we saw how that scene unfolded, that was about as big as a mismatch conceptually gets.

 

[John Locke]

I don't see any evidence of Spidey pulling his punches. That's comic book fans injecting previous conceptions of the character into what they're seeing rather than what the filmmakers were presenting.

In the video game adaptation he says he pulls his punches, I think the tutorial states this as well.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Same. I love the winter soldier and I love hayley Atwell. She'll be missed as the mcu continues on without her

This freaked me out for a second until I realized what you meant. I thought something bad had happened to Hayley! Haha

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I don't see any evidence of Spidey pulling his punches. That's comic book fans injecting previous conceptions of the character into what they're seeing rather than what the filmmakers were presenting. Even taking the arms stimulating Ock's brain into account, he should have been a bruised, bloodied, toothless, jaw-broken mess if Peter had the kind of strength that would take out a super soldier like Cap with one punch.

I'm not debating that Spider-man is stronger than Cap, only that he wouldn't be able to defeat him easily. Cap has always been a tactical master and able to extend fights or stalemate opponents who are much more powerful than him. Cap took two energy blasts from Ultron and a naked shot to the ribs in AOU. Yet he wasn't knocked out or debilitated to the point where he couldn't fight. If you're expecting the MCU Spider-man to be introduced as even stronger than Ultron, you're going to be disappointed.

Ultron didn't exactly come across as amazingly strong in their encounter, a faithful adaptation of Spidey would rip that Ultron apart.

As for Spidey pulling his punches, as I said not everything needs to be said and spelled out in movies. Spiderman held up a tram full of kids and yet couldn't knock out Bonesaw straight away, what does that tell you? Look at what happened to GG once Spidey got angry in the final fight, GG is stronger than Cap in the comics also and was beaten to hell by the end. Plus Spidey has shown incredible endurance himself, more so than Cap if we are just counting the movies.

 

[MbJ]

Case in point: Hawkeye immobilized Scarlet Witch. Before we saw how that scene unfolded, that was about as big as a mismatch conceptually gets.

Exactly.

 

[Mike5575]

Ultron didn't exactly come across as amazingly strong in their encounter, a faithful adaptation of Spidey would rip that Ultron apart.

As for Spidey pulling his punches, as I said not everything needs to be said and spelled out in movies. Spiderman held up a tram full of kids and yet couldn't knock out Bonesaw straight away, what does that tell you? Look at what happened to GG once Spidey got angry in the final fight, GG is stronger than Cap in the comics also and was beaten to hell by the end. Plus Spidey has shown incredible endurance himself, more so than Cap if we are just counting the movies.

A faithful adaptation of Spider-Man would probably be equally matched with that version of Ultron. Remember it did pretty well with that fight against Iron Man and was clearly a lot sronger than Cap.

Mentioning that overpowered version of Spider-Man stopping a train is irrelevant. In his own movie universe, Sony could make Spidey as powerful as they want to be. In the MCU, they will make his power levels consistant in relation to the other heroes. Thor is stronger than Iron Man, Hulk is stronger than Thor, and Iron Man is stronger than Cap. The MCU has done a pretty good job in keeping power levels consistent among the different heroes. Spidey will most likely be stronger than Cap, but weaker than Iron Man.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

A faithful adaptation of Spider-Man would probably be equally matched with that version of Ultron. Remember it did pretty well with that fight against Iron Man and was clearly a lot sronger than Cap.

Mentioning that overpowered version of Spider-Man stopping a train is irrelevant. In his own movie universe, Sony could make Spidey as powerful as they want to be. In the MCU, they will make his power levels consistant in relation to the other heroes. Thor is stronger than Iron Man, Hulk is stronger than Thor, and Iron Man is stronger than Cap. The MCU has done a pretty good job in keeping power levels consistent among the different heroes. Spidey will most likely be stronger than Cap, but weaker than Iron Man.

Well stronger than Cap and weaker than IM would be accurate to the comics. I wouldn't say Ultron was much stronger than Cap, not the version that Cap fought anyway. Cap fought him to evenly even without his shield, I think a faithful Spiderman would beat version of Ultron, not the end version though.

 

[The Caped Knight]

A nice fan manip.

I'm liking it,

 

[Whiskey Tango]

I can't buy that line of reasoning. Take a look at the first 20 seconds of this vid. Spidey is clearly angry and hitting Ock with everything he's got. While this cinematic version of Ock is stronger than the usually pudgy, weak version of comic Ock, he's still a human who took several direct punches to the face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4qOXg_PMUg

Lazy and inconsistent writing is the simplest explanation.

As far as Spidey vs Cap, meh. Spidey is faster and stronger, Cap has more experience and tactical acumen. It all boils down to dramatics. Getting pissy because your favorite dude "should have won" is dumb in a setting where anyone can beat anyone given proper plot relevance. And this desire to see Spidey beat Cap to a pulp (or vice verse) is just weird.

 

[terry78]

Putting aside the "no one can best Iron Man" scenario, in the movies it would make sense for the Mark suits to be able to overpower Spidey considering they can bring the Hulk to a crawl. Not stop him outright but he has a hell of a time dealing with them.

 

[John Locke]

Can't Spider-Man just web the arc reactor out of him? Can't anyone do that? Especially now that it's not even connected to his body. That arc reactor has got to be his Kryptonite, same with War Machine.

 

[MbJ]

Spider-Man and War Machine get bested rather frequently in the comics and that's not even completely unique since they do take their lumps in the films as well. An EMP arrow, a virus arrow, somehow uploading something into the suit, even possibly Ant-Man doing some sabotage, those are all ways Iron Man and War Machine (possibly even Vision) could be taken out.

 

[TalismanRing]

Yeah but really, Cap shouldn't stand a chance against Spiderman, Spidey is20 times stronger, faster and has his spider sense, if Cap beats him in CW there better be a damn good reason behind it.

It's really very easy to explain - Cap is a genius strategist and an infinitely more skilled and seasoned fighter. If he can take down a jet he has a good chance to take down Spider-Man. He could probably decapitate Spidey with his shield if he wanted.

But NO ONE in this movie is trying to murder anyone else or fight to the death, at least not among the split heroes. Tony isn't going to use his arc reactor and repulsors to incinerate anyone on the ground, TWS and Black Widow aren't going to shoot anyone in the head, Vision isn't going to phase through anyone and explode their internal organs, SW isn't going to witchcraft anyone into annihilation or insanity, and Cap, BP and Spidey aren't going to kick, slam, punch, pummel or fling anyone to death.

As said almost anyone can be written to take down anyone else to serve a story of character and if it's written well enough or is dramatic or clever enough it can very much work.

 

[Smashlilman]

It's really very easy to explain - Cap is a genius strategist and an infinitely more skilled and seasoned fighter. If he can take down a jet he has a good chance to take down Spider-Man. He could probably decapitate Spidey with his shield if he wanted.

But NO ONE in this movie is trying to murder anyone else or fight to the death, at least not among the split heroes. Tony isn't going to use his arc reactor and repulsors to incinerate anyone on the ground, TWS and Black Widow aren't going to shoot anyone in the head, Vision isn't going to phase through anyone and explode their internal organs, SW isn't going to witchcraft anyone into annihilation or insanity, and Cap, BP and Spidey aren't going to kick, slam, punch, pummel or fling anyone to death.

As said almost anyone can be written to take down anyone else to serve a story of character and if it's written well enough or is dramatic or clever enough it can very much work.

I think your going to be surprised. A big part of the Civil War story line is that Tony's side was willing to kill to complete there objectives which was a shock to a lot of the people on Tony's side and Caps side wasn't willing to kill at all but end up being forced into a position in which they had to be willing to so.

I'm willing to bet something similar happens in this movie. I'm 100% sure that Tony will be attempt to kill The Winter Soldier and the Winter Soldier will probably struggle unsuccessfully or successfully to not be lethal.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah and that would be a HUGE mistake. It was part of Marvel's attempt to make Tony's side look as bad as possible and Cap look like a freaking saint. And it's one of the reasons why the comic was terrible. I would hope that Marvel Studios wouldn't be so foolish as to copy the comic's bias (which undermines the entire premise).

 

[TeeKay]

Are people seriously trying to say an inexperienced kid who's hasnt been active for that long and who at this point hasn't really faced major villains will somehow defeat an Avenger whos has had years of experienced fighting soldiers, superhumans, a killer robot and even took down a jet by himself? Come on now.

 

[DanielFM]

Are people seriously trying to say an inexperienced kid who's hasnt been active for that long and who at this point hasn't really faced major villains will somehow defeat an Avenger whos has had years of experienced fighting soldiers, superhumans, a killer robot and even took down a jet by himself? Come on now.

Well, fanboys will be fanboys t:

If the stopped thinking only in comic-book terms, they could see things as clearly as you do.

In CW, Spiderman will be a noob. Recently aquired powers, no experience. He won't be the Spiderman he was in CW comics, nor the absurd powerhouse he was in Raimi's Spiderman.

 

[SwiftFox]

I think your going to be surprised. A big part of the Civil War story line is that Tony's side was willing to kill to complete there objectives which was a shock to a lot of the people on Tony's side and Caps side wasn't willing to kill at all but end up being forced into a position in which they had to be willing to so.
.

Spoiler

I don't think this will happen. In the D23 footage, when BW asks Hawkeye if they're still friends, while respond, Hawkeye looks like he's trying not to smile. Secondly, in an interview, Mackie said that it's more like a family dispute... that the characters don't agree, but they don't want to hurt each other either.

 

[RedRose]

Are people seriously trying to say an inexperienced kid who's hasnt been active for that long and who at this point hasn't really faced major villains will somehow defeat an Avenger whos has had years of experienced fighting soldiers, superhumans, a killer robot and even took down a jet by himself? Come on now.

LOL I'm glad someone said it.

 

[MbJ]

I think your going to be surprised. A big part of the Civil War story line is that Tony's side was willing to kill to complete there objectives which was a shock to a lot of the people on Tony's side and Caps side wasn't willing to kill at all but end up being forced into a position in which they had to be willing to so.

The only instance I can think of where Tony's side killed someone is when the clone Thor killed Black Goliath, and it was made immensely clear that this was a horrible mistake and not what Tony intended. They immediately set to work trying to fix the clone's brain while talking about how it wasn't meant to use lethal force against other heroes, and it was shown that some of those involved like Hank Pym were utterly disgusted over what happened. And when Steve did finally get killed, it was by a completely neutral party with no investment in the conflict (Red Skull). Which was then followed by Tony openly weeping and saying how it wasn't worth it.

Maria Hill and the SHIELD agents were less sympathetic but I don't remember anyone on Tony's team cackling and actively trying to murder their former teammates.